Science against evolution

reply to post by itsthetooth

Because to many people are involved in the posting of various diets of all species. Those diets all confirm the patterns I have observed in all of them, and those patterns confirm Target Food exists.

TF already proved wrong in this thread.

reply to post by stereologist


I really don't understand why you are allowing yourself...and I guess I am allowing myself too...LOL!...to be baited into attempting to prove something that is not only OBVIOUS...but is Scientifically PROVEN to be a FACT?

There is no such thing as SCIENCE AGAINST EVOLUTION for if there were...Evolution would never have firsy become a Theory and then now have become FACT.

Some people have stong beliefs and since they have been indoctrinated since they were BORN with such beliefs they will IGNORE even the most OBVIOUS OF FACTS no matter how thoroughly PROVEN and as in this case of Evolution...being used in PRACTICLE APPLICATION as we Genetically Engineer specific Biological Species and develop Genetic Vaccines that are specific to an individual species and even ONE SPECIFIC PERSON.

We can even VISUALLY SEE bacteria that we force into an Evolutionary State of Biological Change by introducing certain toxins and kill the majority of bacteria only to harvest the living bacteria and add a food source to allow numerical growth to allow us to repeat the process again and again until we get Bacteria that has EVOLVED by Natural Selection via Enviromental Conditions that no longer will die when exposed to such toxins and eventually becomes an ENTIRE NEW SPECIES OF BACTERIA.

So we can actually SEE Evolution taking place. What more proof would anyone need?

We are argueing with people that are so ingrained in a Belief System that they cannot have the ability to even see a FACT right before their eyes as when they look at such facts they do so with their EYES ALREADY CLOSED.

Split Infinity

reply to post by itsthetooth


The Question to you tooth was: "In other words, you do not understand how evolution actually works, and your only response is to repeat your previous assertion. What is your reasoning here, can you explain it? "

You had no answer which tells us that there is no reasoning to your posts.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I really don't understand why you are allowing yourself...and I guess I am allowing myself too...LOL!...to be baited into attempting to prove something that is not only OBVIOUS...but is Scientifically PROVEN to be a FACT?

I am not being baited. I always wonder how low creationists and their ilk will stoop. It's the same sort of nonsense as the silly ideas bandied about in the 2012 forum. There is the denial that evidence is posted. There is the misrepresentation of science. There is the claim that we know nothing. There is the appeal to wackos and hoaxers. There are the flaky "theories". There are the personal attacks. There are the oddball claims about the bible.

This TF hoax is just not well thought out compared to a few of the 2012 hoaxes. Some of those involved graphs and videos and some effort at faking things. TF is a laughable joke with no substance.

We are argueing with people that are so ingrained in a Belief System that they cannot have the ability to even see a FACT right before their eyes as when they look at such facts they do so with their EYES ALREADY CLOSED.

These are the most close minded people, the ones that see evolution as some sort of threat. They fabricate everything from geology to chemistry to history to the meaning of words and even recent historical events just to avoid the simple fact that the bible is a good part fiction.

reply to post by stereologist


I admit that when I see such foolishness such as a person claiming there is actually Science that disproves Evolution...and then when confronted to provide proof of such Science...NONE IS EVER PROVIDED.

Instead what we get is a long rambling line of answers of professed proof that anyone can see is not proof at all.

The heart of the issue is such peoples understanding of just what SCIENCE really is and means. It is simply a method of using various methods of logic and logical experimentation to determine the reality of something.

Some people are scared by even the word Science as they get pictures in their minds of horrible things that they fell will challenge their faith and beliefs.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Split/Stereo

What I find becomes an itch you cannot scratch is someone that purposely tells lies.

Stereo you call tooth a creationist. I think he gives them a bad name but he does have a few things in common.

No one expects them to ditch their beliefs, no one even wants them to but they could at least grow from saying 'so evolution says an ape gave birth to a human' to 'Evolution says we have a common ancestor but I disagree and this is why.'

Many do and I enjoy reading what they have to say and I usually just read as there are many with more knowledge and better able to reply than me on this subject. A lot more don’t and in tooth’s case he actually stops any reasoned discussion by repeating the same old tosh, often cut and pasted from his play book showing he never intends to understand what evolution says or enter a real conversation. Is that his intention? Who knows but that is the result.

I may be wrong but he definitely appears to have an agenda to stop any discussion on this subject. This is why he continues quoting pye. His silly attempt to goad me uses the house sparrow. What must be by now just troll bait repeating twice man does not come from apes just in case we missed the first time? This after being corrected thousands of times

So I decided if he won’t shut up I would use his nonsense against him on a thread he had already wrecked because he sure as hell is not going to listen to any argument, read any evidence based on science and will move to the next thread spouting the exact same nonsense once this thread is killed ready to kill another one.

So from the outside looking in I have no doubt that post after post of rubbish looks like a futile pursuit and it may well be but the sites mantra is deny ignorance and having an agenda to stop true discussion is about as ignorant as you can get

I hope that explains my part in this pantomime.

reply to post by colin42


Well I can understand that! LOL!

I have given up trying to present logic and science to allow him to see the realities as he will not even consider such things.

I learned a long time ago that reguardless of what I believe...the only thing that was important...no matter how these facts would change either me or what I believed....to be able to confront the Facts no matter how this makes one feel...is much better than lying in a pool of ignorance.

The thing is that this debate about Evolution is not in conflict with a persons belief in a GOD. It may be in conflict with religious doctrines and dogma...but not in what one believes as far as GOD.

Yet...some people see this as a threat to everything.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Agreed.

Evolution explains the diverse life we see around us and a chance to glimpse the wonder of nature or a chance to glimpse the wonder of creation neither view point is threatened by the other.

Evolution's explanation should not divide us it should actually give us common ground at seeing how wonderful and precious life is, ALL life.

Unlike most other sciences, evolution can be explained to those that want to listen in terms and words that are easy to understand. Where I see the conflict arising is evolution tells us we are part of life and not the reason all other life was created which I find sad

Religion has now and will always have a place as long as we have unanswered questions. Its place however is not to act as a shield to hide behind when confronted by those questions.

Edit
And to be fair most real religions dont want to be used as that shield either.

reply to post by colin42


Agreed. I find it sad that certain realities that have been proven by science are either denied or ignored by those who have a need to feel that their Religious Doctrines and texts are absolute FACTS rather than to veiw them as a truth.

This is why we have people so adamantly against the Fact of Evolution as the Bible or any other Religion in conflict...will state a thing such as GOD created Man and all and everything upon the Earth as well as the Earth in 6 days.

Now anyone can see this as just the writtings of ancient man...but there are those who will FIGHT to never be allowed to be even shown the reality as this reality is in contradiction with a simple BOOK.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Amen to that

I am now off to see my minister who is behind a bar not a pulpit. I shall say the words 'let there be light ales' and I shall find that they are good

After the 7th pint (or so) I shall rest

So see you later

reply to post by colin42


Adios Amigo!

Split Infinity

reply to post by colin42

And that is how you reply a second time to a post showing how you have again misread what I posted to avoid the question. Incredible.

You taking things out of context is not me avoiding questions, but one day you will learn this.

Your golden rule. You made the rule. There can be no processes that are not natural and/or caused by means that are not natural.

Yep, and that is true.

You claimed that rule to be a fact. If by claiming a win you mean your rules when tested against your claims show target food fails then yes, you won. You proved target food false

You have no proof of the aleged processes, so your guessing.

I'm afraid it does. I refer you back to the previous pages where I test your rules against your claims. You’re in a pickle for sure.

I'm not in any pickle, any two non native species can still be native to each other.

Your recent revelation that ALL organic life was not from here apart from maybe bacteria shows ALL organic life’s involvement in anything is unnatural, not just mans. Now when you apply your golden rule the result is always the same. Target food fails.

It fails from being natural to earth, but not to the other species. The relationship is between the consumer and the food not the consumer and the planet.

They are your goalposts. The fantasy is yours.

You frequently move the goal posts, see how dishonest you are.

Unfortunately for you when you admitted that no organic life was from here not just man, your fantasy target food failed. No organic life on this planet is natural. No actions it takes are natural. Organic life is both food and consumer. Apply your golden rule and target food fails every time.

I find it hard to believe that it took you a complete year to realize that no life is native to earth, however that doesn't mean they can't be native to each other.

That’s fine because if you have nothing new to offer the road for target food really is closed.

Why would I close a threat that proves Evolution wrong. Why would I ignore the fact that it proves intelligence must have been present to program the instinct for food. Target Food is very strong, and upstanding.

It might seem like a big threat to you, which is why you wish the subject would be closed, but thats not going to happen.

I am not applying it to the planet. I am applying it to the organic life that your rules say is not natural.

Not natural to earth, but they can be natual to other species.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I will say this again as well as tell you and anyone else that....

.....THERE IS A 100% PROVEN FACT THAT HUMANS ARE GENETICALLY CONNECTED TO EVERY SPECIES ON THE PLANET THAT WE HAVE CROSS REFERENCED THEIR GENOMES TO OURS.

But genomes don't prove relation anymore than creation does.

This is a FACT. It is a WELL KNOWN FACT.

Not only do we have the fossil records...although not totally complete...but more than complete enough to make such an assumption bases on such an EXTREME level of probability.

The entire flux of evolution is based on probability, there is no solid proof, its all guess work. You seriously need to pick up a history book and learn something.

The Fossil records ALONE would be more than enough proof but we also have the proof in all the species DNA and complete mapped GENOMES. This PROOF is irrefutable.

All Species Genomes that we have mapped all contain one specific VIRAL DNA ENCODING within all Genomes and Including OURS!

But fossil records and genomes don't prove relation any more than creation does.

Because of this it is IMPOSSIBLE that there can be any other FACT than we all EVOLVED from a COMMON ANCESTOR. This is not my Belief based on what I think or Feel. It is a FACT based on OBSERVATION, EXPERIMENTATION, DOCUMATION and PRACTICLE APPLICATION....called the SCIENTIFIC METHOD

IT IS A FACT....AS WELL AS A TRUTH.

There is no scientific method that has proven that a species can evolve into another species. Your guessing, again.

reply to post by colin42

Confirming what I wrote:

Quit guessing, pull out some facts for once.

Thank you for confirming this.

Everything I have been shown cleary tells me that evolution is a fantasy.

Your previous reply shows that to be a very suspect remark. Your denial of target food failing every time your claims are tested against your rules further illustrates you do not want proof of anything. You want capitulation. Wrong site. Wrong forum.

You had your response to your attempt to steer the topic away from the failed target food.

That would be false again, I'm looking for somone to prove Target Food wrong, but to do so honestly, not by moving the goal posts which you frequently do.

Your just looking for an easy out, and don't want to try to do things the honest way.

reply to post by theophilus40


Of course there is no-one living who was present at the Creation of our Universe, so as much as we would like to give in to conjecture, our current understanding of Evolution is at best Theoretical. What is however interesting is that the arguments that are postulated by both Science and Religion are only really trying to determine the same thing. What was there before the Universe came into existence anyway? Science relies on empirical evidence to formulate it's theories; a reliance on constant states of matter, yet as we all know, the closer science gets to determinism, the further away from the truth it becomes. The smaller science goes in its search for Origin, the further away from the enormity nof the Unknown it becomes.

And Religion simply relies on Faith in and of the Numinous according to the teachings of our Elders.

Put simply, there is no proof outside of what we believe.

When born as an innocent, perhaps then is the only time in our life when we are as close to being 'with' the force behind our creation that is currently possible.

reply to post by stereologist

You often confuse intent with reason. You also do not understand the meaning of evolution, let alone evolution theory. Random processes as an underlying mechanism is robust enough that it is used in computer algorithms. Genetic algorithms work well and are employed in engineering, chemistry, and other areas. Just because you cannot understand the material has no bearing on other people

My understanding is clear, everything I have been directed to about evolution clearly states that it is a fantasy.

Nothing but useless musings. Come back when you have something to say.

Posting a definition does not mean you understand it. Your posts reveal you do not. You clearly do not understand the meanings of hypothesis, scientific theory, evolution, and many other terms.

A hypothesis is an educated guess based on what information is available at the time, this by no means tells you that its fact. A scientific fact, is an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. No one has ever witnessed a species changing into another species, so your lying, and trying to dumb down other people. Stick to making jokes, your good at that.

Your poor writing and poor spelling and misuse of words and lack of understanding of basic terms suggests otherwise. Take a basic course in biology when you get to high school and learn.

I took basic biology in high school when you were in diapers, and I passed. There was nothing that proved that a species can change into another species, I think your looking in the fiction section.

Pointless commentary. The bible is full of fiction from exodus to genesis to the flood to the mention of imaginary places like Sodom and Gomorrah.

What your really saying is that because they are not visible today, just like evolution, your not going to believe in them. Never mind that they could have existed at one time, and most of the evidence can be washed away with time. Basically your telling me that if you can't touch it and see it, its not real, and that doesn't work in the supernatural. Your way off.

No faith involved on my part. Your response here is laughable.

No one has ever witnessed a species changing into another species, therefore, you have a faith, you believe it can happen with no proof.

Take a basic course when you get to high school and learn the meaning of fact.

A fact is just something that is used as evidence, I'm more interested in proof, and you should be too. You need to lean away from the guessing and the assumptions and come over to the real world.

Reread the thread and see the evidence.

Did you have anything that was convincing?

Not posted in this thread.

The theory of target food has been posted several times ON THIS THREAD.

Straw man argument from desperation.

And still you don't answer.

Wikipedia article contains two links to lab reports that show Pye wrong. Read the reports and learn.

I don't need to read the articles. Wiki never had possesion of the skull to do their own tests, they are just bashing his version of what the skull is based on the fact that the skull has some human properties.
Wiki never tested the skull.
Wiki was never in possession of the skull.
Therefore, how could wiki come up with anything that didn't match what Pye wanted printed? Easy, they made thier own claims based on some of the information that he has submitted. It's wikis opinion.

Sitchin and Pye and VonDaniken are liars. Learn something for a change.

If you want something debunked then point out one of their stupid lies and I can point you to the reason it is a lie. Frankly, I don't believe you know anything about their claims.

Of course I do.

Please provide proof of this claim. We all know you can't since it is wrong. Go ahead show us proof

Aside from propagation there is nothing in the wild that can change our DNA and I challenge anyone to prove this wrong.

When you get to high school take a basic course in biology. This is a foolish claims since evolution affects a species not an individual. Despite being told that many times you continue to post nonsense statements such as that. All of those silly emoticons are just laughing at you.

Look at the fantasy you believe in, you actually think that our DNA can change in the wild, with no proof.

reply to post by colin42

I see so because you post your nonsense on another site and people might see it so they are observing target food in action. Jeeze that's weak even for you.

You say the bible agrees but what I see is you have used your usual level of reading and made a fantasy around what you think you read.

For the bible to be 'a clear historical document' that is what it must be, clear. You even maintain that the god the bible is based on is an imposter. That what it say's about adam and eve is wrong and only you can understand it and dont even need knowledge of ancient Hebrew to understand better than scholars that spend a life time of study.

First of all no one ever claimed that I'm the only one that believes this, that was your assumption. You need to close your assumption generator when dealing with me, it takes up a lot of our time.

reply to post by stereologist

Evolution is not intelligent or guided.

I never read anything that proved this to be a fact, do you have something other than opinion?

That appears to be impossible for you to learn. Man often cannot replicate what happens in nature. Just because we can figure out how to replicate a process or even create a process that does not happen in nature has no bearing on natural events.

Wrong, man can frequently replicate what happens in nature, in fact that only thing I'm aware of that we can't replicate is honey.

Just because you are unable to learn about these matters has no bearing on the ability of other people to understand these matters. Your posts are appeals based on personal ignorance.

Quite, the opposite, I learned from others here on ATS about evolution, and am convinced after the fact that evolution is fantasy.

Overwhelming amount of evidence and proof already posted in thread.

The only things I have been presented with is that food evolves with the rest of us, so there is no explanation. Evolution is not an explanation of the aleded events, its an excuse.

Evidence and proof, not opinion, already posted in thread showing that TF is wrong.

Well then you failed becasue I'm still here, post that proof.

That's just your drivel posted in another place.

Deer experiment with food. Evidence already posted in this thread.

Their experimentation still lands them in their food catagory, so you are wrong and I have allready explained this in the past.

Take a course in biology when you get to high school.

Put your money where your mouth is, prove it.

Irrelevant commentary.

It's not irrelevant, its where our defects came from.

Take a basic course in geology and learn. This is another appeal from personal ignorance.

I'm not interested in your whimsical understandings.

Your conclusion is without merit. There is zero evidence that the skull is anything other than human.

Your ignorant, there is something like 57 elements that prove that skull to not be human. It has more brain mass, but not in defect, no iniot, shallow eye sockets that couldn't possibly house OUR eyes. A larger frontal lobe, different neck axis, a smaller mouth, 5 adult teeth wating to come down with existing adult teeth, a smaller bite radius, Skull is more that of enamal then bone, they had a problem cutting it in the lab and had to use the strongest acid possible.

That skull is NOT human.

The reports state that. Pye is a stunning example of his own book title "Everything You Know is Wrong". Yes is wrong is almost every way. One of his dumbest ideas is that there are 4 groups of hominids: bigfoot, yetis, agogwes and almas. So when this wacko Pye was unable to fit this skull into his fantasy he invented a new category. Pye went from wacko to nutcase on this one. When the reports showed him wrong he did the only thing a wacko could do: he ignored the results.

The first results were proven to be false by the second lab test, but you would know that if you read the notes on the tests.

Straw man argument from someone with nothing to say.

I'm going to take your strawman comment that I'm correct.

Irrelevant commentary.

Its only irrelevant when it once again shows that your right and everyon else is wrong.

Already posted in thread.

Be a man and post your proof. Whats the matter, don't you have any?

reply to post by stereologist

Prove it.

Evidence already posted in thread.

Your evidence is false, can you post something credible.

TF proved false many times in this thread.

Your claims are false, can you post something credible.

Already done.

Did you have something a little more credible.

Already posted.

Try something credible.

Your comment was nonsensical.

There is nothing nonsensicle about my comment.

As I stated before your writing is poor and clumsy. You misspelled writing and you're. You misuse words. That is what makes your posts difficult to respond to.

There is nothing wrong with my posts.

When you get to high school take a biology course so you can learn the meaning of the words you do not understand such as evolution, and theory and hypothesis. That will be a building block for you.

When you make it through high school, I hope you learn that anything that is responsible for creating over a billion species is a CREATOR.

Evolution is the observed change in the genetics of a population. Evolution is not changing the DNA. Evolution is the observed change. Someday I expect you to learn that.

Some of those changes are accounted for, as in the case of ADHD, so your fantasy is false.

Pointless commentary.

You connected dots showing that speciation means a species is changing, but there is no proof, but you connected the dots anyhow. You connected the dots showing that a species has the ability to change into another species again with no proof, but again you connected the dots.

Another appeal from personal ignorance.


There is more reliable information in Target Food then there is evolution.

Proof that you are wrong already posted in thread.


Maybe its you with the proor skills.

Pointless commentary, also unintelligible.


Still there is proof of great floods all over this planet.

No proof of a global flood, only local floods.

Global, local, same thing, the water has to move somewhere.

reply to post by stereologist

Nothing has been posted in this thread that shows science against evolution. Only 1 poster offered science evidence.

There isn't anything scientific about willing a theory into existance.