Americans, Isn't It Time You Relinquished Your Weapons.

Originally posted by Sinfulknowledge
guns are illegal in Mexico
Look how that worked out o.0
Should we tell car corporations to stop making cars because a few idiots get drunk and then kill people?
sad situation
but no reason to take peoples rights
Guns don't kill people
stupid people do.

Guns are not illegal in mexico. I posted that earlier!

They simply have more restrictions than america has and the supply chain is rather limited.

Please do not spread misinformation.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Smoking and drinking will kill more than guns ever will but unfortunatly big corporations make a whole load of cash out of them so i can't see that happening in a hurry. Cars, people need to get around, it's an accepted part of life that you take a risk when you get in a car. Drink driving, there are laws against it but laws never really stopped people doing stuff, just the law abiding people, not sure about a solution to that - inbuilt car breathalyzers to start the engine ?

Personally i don't see guns getting banned, there'd be riots in the US if these threads are anything to go by. Either the US society has to either come up with a solution or when these things happen stop sensationalising it in the media and treat it like you would a highway accident. It's all over the media here in the UK so that's why many UK'ers are talking about it.

most don't seem to give a sh1t if a few dozen kids die as long as the adults get to keep their weapons

That's the sad truth, our country is full of degenerates.

Luckily there's plenty of good people too, and I live around them so I don't need to live in paranoia like the gun freaks do.

I've learned that conservatives think they need guns because they live around other conservatives (who are violent and dangerous).

reply to post by lacrimaererum


There seems to be some question as to your country of origin. Of course you're not required to reveal that, but I would be curious to know so that we can do a fair comparison of your country to America, you know, just for the sake of transparency and fairness. Since you have labeled all Americans as cowards, I'm just wondering if you're brave enough to tell us about your wonderful country, and how we can learn from your people

Someone said you live in LA, is that true? Are you a foreign national living in the States? If so, I wonder why you would do such thing...
A superior education?
A higher standard of living?
More career opportunities?

If you you do indeed live in the USA, or, perhaps you're from America, I wonder what your fellow students, co-workers or neighbors would think about you hiding behind the anonymity of the internet calling us cowards during a national tragedy, and implying that we care more about guns than children. Or insulting our armed forces En Masse for the the bad acts of a few.... once again, in this anonymous forum. I ask you then, when you so shamelessly call us cowards, should you not be looking into the mirror when you throw that accusation out?
Just curious, of course.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


Yes guns are being sensationalised, BUT there is also a substantial black market available and one has to question how it became so. How are gangs in the big cities getting guns so easily? Someone is providing them to career criminals who obviously do not go through any background checks to verify their worthy status.

This is what should have been addressed a long time ago along with the losing war on narcotics. Every country has a problem with narcotics and most deaths are a result of drug abuse or gang violence.

As you said some people are making big money on guns and narcotics and seem to want a monopoly!

Guns are hunting tools,just as axes, machetes and chainsaws are cutting tools, all of them could be classified as murder or killing weapons, but the fact is in my reality and most others they are merely personal survival tools, and that's all

if you used a sewing machine to earn a living but the government said you weren't allowed to possess it and it was the only way you had to earn a living and survive, would you give it up?

you can create many different scenarios as to the wheres and why's but the bottom line here is, is its out of the hands of the government, unless they choose to force their will on the people, and when that occurs? they better pray to god the Americans don't get their hands on them.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

your "concern" for our barbaric children is noted.

edit on 15-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

Thanks for replying to this person and otherwise stating your position so well. This person has no compassion for US citizens...in this thread this person has called us cowards, said we care more about gun ownership than the safety of our children, has criticized our military. I believe this is a lame attempt to troll for stars....America is not beyond criticism, obviously...we are not perfect, nor is anyone else.
But to take such cheap shots while using this tragedy as fodder to further an opinion...tasteless and arrongant, IMHO.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by knowledgedesired

 

I guess everyone should just resort to stabbing each other like they do where your from.

Knife crime is a massive issue here in England but it is mainly localised to young gang culture. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if we didn't have gun control?

And I agree more work needs to go into finding the social issues of why this terrible crimes are committed.

ALS

You do know the murder rate averaged 50% higher after the gun control laws of 1968 (1969 - 2007) were enacted in England, right? You do know the average murder rate was 15% higher between 1998 and 2007 compared to 1997, right?

You do know that in England you are 5 times more likely to be violently attacked than in America (including our murder rate), right? Did you know that in America guns are used in self defense 63 times for every one life taken maliciously under any circumstance? Did you know that despite gun ownership being at an all time high, violent crime is lower than it was in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s? Did you know that in America our "gun problem" is mainly localized with young gang culture? Most of the people attacked with guns each year (about 70%) have been arrested and/or convicted at least five times in the past and are usually shot by someone they know with a similar history.

We have a broken society. However, you are five times less likely to be violently attacked in America than in England (per capita). The issue isn't guns, the issue is a society that drives people to desperate ends and fails to give many people the mental help they need.

Guns are actually used more often for suicide than murder in America. To me, that says we need to address a mental and spiritual health issue. People in America shoot and poison themselves in an attempt to end their pain and suffering far, far more often than they try to take other people's lives. We need to stop focusing on the tool and start focusing on the disease.

Banning guns is like banning Kleenex to eradicate the common cold. "Well if people didn't have tissue they couldn't blow their nose. IF they can't blow their nose then they just won't be able to get sick." Sound a bit silly.

A quote that I feel is relevant to this thread.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Ben Franklin

We were given the right to bear arms for a reason... And it's not because guns look cool.

Talk about getting rid of guns all you want, but when you start going on about giving up our rights, well, I don't know about anyone else, but I stop listening....

I will not give up my rights, especially when guns are not the problem to begin with.

It's time we start looking into our mental health care system. Why do we have so many people going on these mass killing sprees? What is wrong with these people that they end up doing such horrible things.

The guns aren't what makes them kill... If we took away every gun in the world, a person who wants to kill would pick up a rock instead....

Looks keep the spot light in the real issue at hand here....

Popular or not, that is where I stand.

peace and love.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by knowledgedesired

 

I guess everyone should just resort to stabbing each other like they do where your from.

Knife crime is a massive issue here in England but it is mainly localised to young gang culture. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if we didn't have gun control?

And I agree more work needs to go into finding the social issues of why this terrible crimes are committed.

ALS

You do know the murder rate averaged 50% higher after the gun control laws of 1968 (1969 - 2007) were enacted in England, right? You do know the average murder rate was 15% higher between 1998 and 2007 compared to 1997, right?

You do know that in England you are 5 times more likely to be violently attacked than in America (including our murder rate), right? Did you know that in America guns are used in self defense 63 times for every one life taken maliciously under any circumstance? Did you know that despite gun ownership being at an all time high, violent crime is lower than it was in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s? Did you know that in America our "gun problem" is mainly localized with young gang culture? Most of the people attacked with guns each year (about 70%) have been arrested and/or convicted at least five times in the past and are usually shot by someone they know with a similar history.

We have a broken society. However, you are five times less likely to be violently attacked in America than in England (per capita). The issue isn't guns, the issue is a society that drives people to desperate ends and fails to give many people the mental help they need.

Guns are actually used more often for suicide than murder in America. To me, that says we need to address a mental and spiritual health issue. People in America shoot and poison themselves in an attempt to end their pain and suffering far, far more often than they try to take other people's lives. We need to stop focusing on the tool and start focusing on the disease.

Banning guns is like banning Kleenex to eradicate the common cold. "Well if people didn't have tissue they couldn't blow their nose. IF they can't blow their nose then they just won't be able to get sick." Sound a bit silly.

edit on 15-12-2012 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

Really interesting stats, I'm highly alarmed if they are fact. Can you provide links?

Thanks.

ALS

I live in a town that literally 90% of the population has at least one gun. Most have multiple weapons. They are tools and for self defense. We do not have gun crime. Nobody shoots up schools/stores. The last time we had gun violence was about 3 years ago as i recall. A breakin, the owner had a pistol but it misfired and he was killed. The majority of deaths here are from car crash's. If criminals suspect their victim has a gun they move on. In the case of this town it is widely known that if they were to attack someone they would be shot in short order. Women included. They carry too.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by knowledgedesired

 

I guess everyone should just resort to stabbing each other like they do where your from.

Knife crime is a massive issue here in England but it is mainly localised to young gang culture. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if we didn't have gun control?

And I agree more work needs to go into finding the social issues of why this terrible crimes are committed.

ALS

You do know the murder rate averaged 50% higher after the gun control laws of 1968 (1969 - 2007) were enacted in England, right? You do know the average murder rate was 15% higher between 1998 and 2007 compared to 1997, right?

You do know that in England you are 5 times more likely to be violently attacked than in America (including our murder rate), right? Did you know that in America guns are used in self defense 63 times for every one life taken maliciously under any circumstance? Did you know that despite gun ownership being at an all time high, violent crime is lower than it was in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s? Did you know that in America our "gun problem" is mainly localized with young gang culture? Most of the people attacked with guns each year (about 70%) have been arrested and/or convicted at least five times in the past and are usually shot by someone they know with a similar history.

We have a broken society. However, you are five times less likely to be violently attacked in America than in England (per capita). The issue isn't guns, the issue is a society that drives people to desperate ends and fails to give many people the mental help they need.

Guns are actually used more often for suicide than murder in America. To me, that says we need to address a mental and spiritual health issue. People in America shoot and poison themselves in an attempt to end their pain and suffering far, far more often than they try to take other people's lives. We need to stop focusing on the tool and start focusing on the disease.

Banning guns is like banning Kleenex to eradicate the common cold. "Well if people didn't have tissue they couldn't blow their nose. IF they can't blow their nose then they just won't be able to get sick." Sound a bit silly.

edit on 15-12-2012 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

Murder rates by guns are significantly lower in the UK compared to here at home.

Number of 2009 gun homicides:

UK - 18
US - 9,146

Rate of gun homicide per 100,000:

UK - 0.03
US - 2.98

www.gunpolicy.org...
www.gunpolicy.org...

reply to post by DirtyLiberalHippie


We were given the right to bear arms in order to maintain a well-regulated militia (in the early years of our country).

reply to post by CB328


BWAHHAHAHAHAJHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

COnservatives are violent and dangerous? OH REALLY GENIUS?

So is that why the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of violent crimes happen where again? OH yeah BIG CITIES... large metropolitan areas are known for voting what way again... oH YEAH DEMOCRAT!!!

TRY AGAIN GENIUS....

Hey you wanna know another interesting fact?

Per capita as in the statistical likelihood of being the victim of a violent crime ... Yeah you are statistically much more likely to be a victim of violent crime if you live in a large city with tight regulations on guns, pepper spray, stun guns, body armor, and other self defense products. THis is outright fact... so how do you explain this oh wise one?

And then there's the fact that in the last week there have been 2 rampage shootings both of which happened in areas where the official and posted policy is that civilians are prohibited from carrying firearms... Look how well that turned out!

Interestingly enough the OVERWHELMING majority of rampage shootings take place in areas where the sick twisted cowards who do stuff like this KNOW the vast majority if not all of the people will be UNARMED!!!

This is a FACT it is very easy to check if you ... I don't know actually have the courage of your convictions and are interested in the TRUTH not just making a knee jerk reaction to something you have no understanding of and therefore FEAR!!!


Also I'd like to point out that all of the incidents where armed citizens stop rampage shootings before they start or before there is a massive loss of life DO NOT get reported on in the national and international news because they DO NOT FIT THE NARRATIVE THAT IT'S GUNS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM!!

Again I will ask you to do your due dilligence and report back on the not one but TWO rampage shootings that were stopped before they started in the state of Utah by armed citizens with NO LOSS OF LIFE.

Or how about the New Life Church Shooting where a volunteer security guard exercising their right to carry stopped a massacre before any more life could be lost?

Now let's compare this to Virginia Tech where not only were the students, staff, and faculty prohibited from having weapons anywhere on the campus but even the CAMPUS POLICE had to go back to their central office and GET THEIR GUNS OUT OF THE SAFE before they could even think about confronting the active shooter? How did that work out for them again? Oh yeah PILES OF DEAD AND WOUNDED ... that's how that worked out.

Then there's the fact that the supreme court has ruled EXPLICITLY that law enforcement has NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT YOU, only an obligation to apprehend or neutralize the criminal after they have committed the crime? This functionally means in the case of active shooters that PEOPLE MUST BE WOUNDED OR KILLED before the police will even start to mobilize...

Look I get that you've been programmed that guns are evil and that violence is never the answer.... but the reality is Humans are violent. No amount of legislation will ever change this! So I will be DAMNED if you are going to take away my right to FIGHT FOR MY OWN, MY FAMILY'S, and or THE LIVES OF OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE IN MY IMMEDIATE VICINITY!!!

if you don't want to own a gun that's fine... no one is going to force one into your hand, but you are much safer if other people who do not share your compunctions do exercise their rights and carry for their own and YOUR PROTECTION.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


I could not disagree more. There are many illegal items you can still get. Until you destroy every last gun on Earth...... some a-hole is going to find a way to get one and go on a rampage. I don't find any of this coincidental. Guns aren't the problem. We need to teach our children to love and respect life no matter what. Our kids are learning false history, getting picked on, bullied, and not really getting what they need out of the public school system. If you want this insanity to stop..... LOOK WHERE IT IS HAPPENING!!!!! It's not the local mall or your grocery store. It's the damn school! That alone should tell you something. The schools are the problem.

Originally posted by knowledgedesired
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

 

I guess everyone should just resort to stabbing each other like they do where your from.

If the shooter used gasoline and a match instead would you ban fuel?

Guns don't kill people do.

We need to put more resources into education and society so we can spot people early that commit these types of crimes not ban guns.

Um, when was the last time or first time you've seen a semi-automatic knife?

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


The Supreme Court of the United States has held that the police are not responsible for our safety. They are held blameless in cases of violence perpetrated against American citizens and can not be sued in any court for not protecting a citizen.

Self-defence is the only option, unless you think we should just submit to anyone who threatens violence against us. How I provide for that defence is my business. But I can assure you that I will not call the police in the event of a violent crime against me until I have secured my family and the situation or die tying.

My training does not allow for unneccessary distractions or phone calss when dealing with a lethal threat.

It is incredible to me that British subjects would allow themselves to be unable to rightfully defend themselves and their families and property. Considering all of the upheaval and turmoil that has marked your country's history and the near defeat you faced in WWII.

It is again obvious to me why my ancenstors left in 1636.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Isn't It Time You worry about your own country as it can be invaded any day and you would have nothing to fight with but shovels!!

Get a clue!!

reply to post by MikeNice81


To be fair you are right. Since the 1960 homicide rates were steadily rising, hitting there peak around 2003. They are quick dipping though. But still strict gun control was introduced after dunblaine which was in 1996. So the "gun issue is kind of moot.

Still I'm interested to know what made the murder rates rise. Judging by the timeline I could guess sexual liberation is a cause. After all "crimes of passion" are the most common reasons for murder.

ALS

Oh and as an addendum just to educate people a little further.

In the United States in order to obtain an actual fully automatic weapon aka a military grade weapon you must either obtain a class 3 federal firearms license or fill out an ATF form 4 and pay a 200 dollar fee in both cases however you are looking at an extensive background check and must have NO criminal record whatsoever to obtain these types of weapons. Since the National Firearms Act was passed in the early 1930's there have been exactly 2 murders committed with legally licensed machine guns and one of those murders was committed by an off duty police officer!

Yes folks that is right ... there have been 2 murders in better than 80 YEARS with legal machine guns. Interestingly enough in doing 5 minutes worth of research on google I have been able to determine that there were more murders by an order of magnitude or several with GARDEN TOOLS in the last decade as there has been in 80 years with legal machine guns.

When certain groups such as the brady campaign beat their drum to try and "prove" their case that "assault weapons" need to be banned they do everything they can to obfuscate the fact that so called military grade assault weapons may look like the guns the military uses but they are not fully automatic nor are they all that easy to convert to fully automatic rifles or etc. The brady campaign and other groups routinely and flagrantly lie in the articles and promotional material they distribute.... Now why would they have to or even WANT to lie if they were really out to help people?

You should also note that in California where there is a very large amount of violent crime they have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation... Interestingly enough though shortly after passing these extremely restrictive gun laws the California Legislature voted to EXEMPT THEMSELVES FROM THE LAWS THEY JUST PASSED...

Yes you heard this right, they believe in the laws to prevent YOU from owning these items but feel that they themselves should not have to follow the same restrictions.