Americans, Isn't It Time You Relinquished Your Weapons.

If we gave up our guns - there would have been sword/knife attacks in those schools instead of gun attacks.

Crazy people will do whatever they want - can't prevent them from acting, just have to stop them cold in their tracks.

Here in southern GA - the schools seem to have a Cop in every school. The doors are locked and you have to be buzzed in. Even after being buzzed in - you have to be buzzed in to enter the rest of the school. Even the local mall has armed security. No mass killings going on here (other than the gang stuff - who don't give a rats behind about laws - they get their guns illegally).

A common sense approach is better than freaking out. You can take the gun out of a crazy's hand, but you can't take the crazy out. Only a forceful response would work if/when a crazy person attacks...not kind words and misguided logic.

-CN

reply to post by Snoopy1978

What are the chances a home invasion will EVER occur?

A lot higher if the criminals know we are unarmed.

No one is coming for your guns America. Just calm down and take a step back. In recent cases of these mass shootings, gun sales actually go up. Gun sales increased under Obama by nearly 20 %. Because your all so paranoid he and the liberal Gestapo are going to be banging down your doors demanding your assault rifles.

You guys can't even entertain the idea of a more mature approach to this discussion, just jumping around like the proverbial Yosemite Sam.

reply to post by woodwardjnr
If there was 1 person in that school building today who could use a gun, like most of us can use a ballpoint pen, how many children wouldn't be dead tonight?

I also think this is about school choice. My child isn't in school anymore, but if he was, I would pay money to have him in a school with people who were able to conceal and carry, with security.

But, unfortunately, gov't is attempting to take our personal protection away, and they refuse to give us school choice, while continuing to raise our taxes.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
No one is coming for your guns America. Just calm down and take a step back. In recent cases of these mass shootings, gun sales actually go up. Gun sales increased under Obama by nearly 20 %. Because your all so paranoid he and the liberal Gestapo are going to be banging down your doors demanding your assault rifles.

You guys can't even entertain the idea of a more mature approach to this discussion, just jumping around like the proverbial Yosemite Sam.

You have no idea how you sound.

Because we discuss this issue and it becomes heated in forums such as this one, it probably appears to outsiders that we Americans are always hyped up with red faces and bulging veins. Not so. Most of us never get heated up about the subject until we are forced to defend it.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

You guys can't even entertain the idea of a more mature approach to this discussion, just jumping around like the proverbial Yosemite Sam.

The majority of Americans are too fat & arthritisy to be jumping around. Therefore your point is invalid.

I keep seeing the argument that 'guns don't kill, people do' and 'if everyone had a gun someone could have stopped it'.

Is this seriously a valid standpoint? The gun is the weapon. Sure, you can kill with a knife or anything else that can be used as a weapon, but you can't cause that type of wholesale slaughter with most other weapons. Why would a person need to own an assault rifle for self defense? Setting trip wires attached to your doors and windows would work as self defense, but people aren't running around advocating this type of thing, so why do Americans become so defensive when it comes to their guns?

As for being able to stop a crime if everyone has a gun, how many mass shootings have been stopped in this manner? If someone is set on that course, there is little to stop them. Or does that mean everyone carries around assault rifles, because if I had a handgun and some nut started shooting with a machine gun, I'd probably be ducking for cover like everyone else! Sure, you may get in a few shots, but what happens when you run out of bullets and they still have 5 mags and body armour? So, handguns are out. Everyone will need to carry assault rifles. Sure, you'll all feel so safe. You'll also become suspicious and distrusting of those around you.

Just a thought on the second amendment too. When this was written, what did men do when they had a fight? They were gentlemen back then, they would square off, roll up their shirtsleeves (as in baring their arms) and fight it out. Maybe it's just me, but I think that wording has been taken way out of context ever since. Your country was founded on great ideas, but I doubt they ever had modern America in mind.

Might be a bit of a ramble and feel free to attack me if you will, but this is my opinion only.

My first post here but long time lurker--

I will introduce myself on the appropriate thread in a few minutes after this.

Now,ALS,Thank you for your concern regarding violent gun crimes in the USA. But you make
a few comments that I could not let go.
You stated that if guns are outlawed then eventually the police would have less guns-then when asked about
gang activity you said that is what the police are for.

I read what you wrote,and understood that you believe guns are the problem,and that they cause violent crime.
But statistically we have proof that they do not.
The following links should help to clarify
www.jpost.com...
Israel is a very well armed society with one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
Russia on the other hand has a higher murder rate than the USA,with no Second Amendment Rights to gun ownership.
Switzerland,where gun ownership is mandated,seems like a very safe place to live.
en.wikipedia.org...
Looking at those stats one could conclude that its not guns that are violent,its immigrants. I am sure many in the UK have said the same over the years.

Furthermore, in the USA we have about 290 million guns in civilian hands.Outlawing guns is just not a viable option.
Per the FBI,the highest rates of gun related homicides where in DC,an area with the toughest gun control laws in the USA. In 1990 in Boston,Seventy three percent of gun crime victims under 21 are themselves people with criminal records.

David McDowall, found that guns were used in self defense 258460 times between 1987 and 1990. Gary Kleck found that guns were used 2.4 million times a year in the USA for self defense-and the vast majority never fired a shot.
en.wikipedia.org...

Based on that it could be argued that guns make us safer in the USA.

Crime usually stems from socio-economic factors.The exception is usually mental illness. By looking at the mass murders and mass murderers in Americas past including this tragic event in CT,you are basically trying to disarm good people, leaving them at the mercy of criminals,based on the actions of a small group of mentally ill people.

If you want to get rid of the majority of crime you need to address the reasons for it-which is economic.Since the top .1 percent have no desire to do that,its then in their best interests to make sure that the peons loose access to the means of one day toppling the elite.That is what gun control is about.Not to protect you and I,but to protect THEM as they create a society where we have lost our rights ,our fortunes,and our sacred honor. That is why our Constitution has the 2nd Amendment in place.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL

And now with the shooting at sandy hook the statistics rises to 61 shootings and (approx) 210 deaths 20 of which are young children.
How many more people must die because you are to proud to give up your pistols?

Is that supposed to be an impressive number? Don't get me wrong I sympathize with the families who lost loved ones, but 210 deaths in 14 years doesn't just prompt "relinquishing your weapons". That's a governments wet dream.

If you want to look at taking weapons away, take a look at the hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocents in these past wars. Drone strikes doing double taps. Bombing residential areas. An estimated million killed in the Iraq war & half a million children dead from 90's sanctions. Now match that up a against 210 deaths in over a decade. You'd rather the people relinquish their weapons but not a government/military industrial complex that partakes in mass killings with little to no lashback.

Oh and then there's Mexico.

Americans only care when it's their own citizens on domestic soil that are killed. Everyone else is free game.

Gun control will only control the guns of the law abiding citizens. The bad guys will still have them and the rest of us will be defenseless. I might be more prone to relinquish my guns once they can get the drugs & guns away from the criminals. It's not a lack of gun control in this society, it is a lack of heart & soul. The motto has changed from "All for 1 and 1 for All" to "Me, me me me ME ME ME! Everyone keeps screaming GUN CONTROL! But I think they should be screaming HIGHER MORALS! We no longer have GOD in our schools, and sh!t went down hill fast once GOD was removed. I'm not a religious bible bouncing nut, I don't care whether you believe in Jesus, or Budda, or Krishna or the smurfs for that matter, but when you bring up a child in a society with no faith or values or morals, you get a young adult that believes in nothing higher than themselves.

The guns this man carried did NOT kill a single child! It was the lunatic pulling the trigger that made the decision to kill.
Putting a gun in my hand makes me no more of a killer than making me stand in a garage makes me a car!

Originally posted by wrksstudios

Originally posted by Bodhi7
They will be taken anyway. I hate to say it since it JUST happened, but a bunch of kids getting shot seems like the perfect opportunity for gun laws since the typical arguments don't apply. What are we going to do, start arming children?

They will have to kill many people if they think taking the guns will be easy. Most of us are prepared to fight till death.

Maybe that's the problem over there - you're all obsessed with violence and will use it to make your point.

Originally posted by Jusvistn
Gun control will only control the guns of the law abiding citizens. The bad guys will still have them and the rest of us will be defenseless.

How many times has a victim been able to pull out their gun and defend themselves against the criminal?

How many people take their guns out with them?

If someone is pointing a gun at you and you try and go for yours, you're dead.

It's an utterly stupid argument, formed I believe from ignorance. Most of you have never been to another country outside the US and cannot conceive what the reality of a gunless society is really like.

It doesn't increase gun crime, it decreases it - like in Washington since gun control.

reply to post by Power_Semi


I only had to do it once.... and NO ONE got killed, including me. But I can guarantee you that if I had not had a gun that day, I would have been dead.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


You are joking right? The only reason why Russia never invaded America is because we are all armed-I'm not, but I am glad others are. You have to be crazy to disarm an entire nation. You know why? Because, anything you ban you create a black-market for. If a normal (sane) person takes their gun in, then a person without means (someone from the ghetto) is still going to buy and have a gun no matter what law is in place to protect them in their environment. So this would create gangs that know you don't have a gun but they do.

I know things sound great on paper right? How about let's astop pretending that we aren't human (sophisticated animals) and understand life isn't like what they make it out to be on t.v.

I am curious to know if you are working for a campaign guy right now trying to pump up votes, or if you are a real citizen.

If you don't say the "T" word all the time then people won't be afraid. "T ism", "T ism", etc.

How about-in this day in age we have an understanding:

1. Oil prices are destroying our economy
   
2. Schools are broke
   
3. People really believe that taxing the rich won't help our deficit...
   
4. Our children are all in one place at one time-get some security at the doors-they were at my school. Metal detectors + police (suburb of Chicago).
   

What I am saying is that the intelligent decision would be to arm all schools with metal detectors and police. Every community has a cop that has 20 minutes to stand at the door and watch the metal detector (they did it at my school with 2 cops every morning).

So, disarm the nation and kill everyone-or give our schools some type of security fund/get the community police involved checking all doors and property? I know it may raise taxes, but if there is a need there has to be payment, but there should at least be an armed cop(s) at all schools and a security team. We can do more to make our schools safer.


My real problem and question about your perspective is that "do you believe that if take away a (one) specific weapon away from society that you will take away the rage from people who are insane, and all the killing will stop?"

Next, will you ban mirrors and other sharp objects in a school also? "I'm sorry, but you children can't get in without a strip search, ohh and no pens or pencils please. What about the more sophisticated children who know how to harness electricity, or science class forget about it. Actually there are more chemicals in the janitor's locker than there are in the science class!

You know what else has risen lately? The amount of chemicals people eat, the number of autistic children in the world now, the more GMO's that were supposed to solve world hunger but instead created a bunch of super-powered insects. That's what really crazy. Maybe the 2 correlate? Perhaps people are going insane more often because stress (from money) and eating BS food. We have no satisfaction. Since 911 everyone is freaked out saving their moneys and valuables. We have definitely become more sedentary. Bring a little peace and love back from those 70's hippies and perhaps we can go back to how we used to be. Make us happy and feel secure again. Be nice to others-you affect this world too, open doors for people-walk an old lady across the street with her groceries-say hello to strangers (or at least smile), we can change all of this. We just have to relinquish our stress together, or we could wind up a third world nation very easily.

For you bending over and being serviced in the rear takes on a new meaning! America should issue out a hand gun to all it's legal and lawabiding citizen! We have a few states in which they are further broken down into counties. Some allow their residence to carry firearms/sidearms, in plain sight. And guess what their crimerate's are super low! Just imagine if ole grandma saw that gunman heading to that elementary school, where her grandkids attend. She'd break out the .44mag and drop that mad dog in his tracks!!

And as guad stated education on firearms is a must! I also attended a high school when it was hunting season every car and truck had a gun of some type in it! A gun is a tool. I have snake's and other wildlife come in my hard that are deadly! I'd love to videotape you fending off a couple coyotes with your knife. I'd post it on you tube! That would be some funny arse chit!!

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
No one is coming for your guns America. Just calm down and take a step back. In recent cases of these mass shootings, gun sales actually go up. Gun sales increased under Obama by nearly 20 %. Because your all so paranoid he and the liberal Gestapo are going to be banging down your doors demanding your assault rifles.

You guys can't even entertain the idea of a more mature approach to this discussion, just jumping around like the proverbial Yosemite Sam.

and little do you realize that gun ownership has been in decline since the 1980s, same goes for violent crime.....and yes sales go up after a mass shooting because people want to protect their families.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL
Regarding the title of your OP, it is about time that I said this to you:

Foreigner, isn't it about time you came over here and took them all from us?

Put up or shut up, bring your airguns, slingshots and knives over here and force us to give you our guns.....

Boy!

Just because something isn't allowed isn't going to stop someone from doing something.

You change the gun laws in America and you think every citizen is going to relinquish their weapons?

Yes, I'm from England. We don't have any laws passed to carry a gun at any time unless you have specifically applied to have one.

People still die, there are still murders, there are still people carrying illegal weapons out on the street.

Changing a law isn't going to change people. Changing people will make change.

When are people going to realise that it's not the method that kills people, it's the person behind the method.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOULWe here in britain have done just fine with tight gun control. In fact I would go as far to say that it's one of the best things that's happened to Britain since the NHS.ALS

edit on 14-12-2012 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)

Actually I think it is one of the worst things that has happened. All banning guns does is make it so law abiding citizens don't have them, but criminals do have them.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


210 deaths? You know how many die from drunk driving alone? I wanna say its in the realm of 20k a year in the US...Lets ban alcohol first then.....

Half the time this crap happens is cause they have parents that are abusing drugs or alcohol anyway....so we will see a trickle down effect if we ban alcohol.

Don't get me wrong I love my beer...but it has destroyed people in ways we can't imagine.