Ban the Gun, Repeal the Second Amendment.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

I do not hide the fact that in Brittan we have a problem with crime, but we only have 50 or so murders a year that are gun related, America has over 8000.

You are an island, and a small one at that LOL. Ever hear of Mexico? Central America? South America? We could never stop guns from coming in (our borders are gigantic and mostly wide open). Gun control in America only serves to endanger the LAW ABIDING.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

So here I am sitting watching the news, I see a young boy talking about how he “saw and heard” the bullets of a gun man. The headline below this innocent child’s face reads “27 people killed in Connecticut shooting, 18 children”.

I am not to beat about the bush hear but as a British guy looking in on this I am shocked, there have been more of these type of mass shootings this year than I can count. Every month I am seeing some state governor passing on his heartfelt condolences to the families of the dead.

How about this instead America rather than having your leaders “apologise” to all the dead families how about you do this? Get out of the Wild West and the 18th century and BAN THE GUN!!! You are not cowboys anymore, you are not John Rambo the British are not about to invade you.

For the “guns don’t kill people, people do”, stop hiding behind an old cliché, if you lot bothered with proper gun control I would not be watching this disturbing story.

To be clear, I am not saying ban all guns or ban the gun overnight, what I am saying is that you lot need to grow up and some proper gun regulation. You need gun reform, it’s very simple, none of you gun enthusiasts needs 40 guns with 1200 rounds of ammunition.

Stop hiding behind that ancient bit of paper, your constitution, you all need to grow a set and sort out your gun problem before you have anoter 18 dead kids, who knows next time it could be one of yours, I pray it is not and i pray for the families of those affected

I have one thing to say. New Hampshire. Your thread is just rendered meaningless. You're welcome.

I have never advocated banning guns on this forum ever. In fact, quite to the contrary I have supported gun rights. Citizens who have guns will not necessarily kill people.

For instance, in Switzerland, women are encouraged to own guns and all men must undergo mandatory military training. All men basically have bolt action rifles and it is the citizens who are called upon to defend the country in case of war since Switzerland does not have a standing army. However, gun crime is very low and there aren't instances of mass shootings as there are in America. It is clear, each country has conditions of it's own which means that it is either safe or unsafe for citizens to own guns.

In the case of the US, I have increasingly leaned towards stricter gun regulations - such as registries, inspection and finger print identification. The reason being, and I don't like to generalise, is that American culture is sick, perverted and desensitized to violence. Americans seem to be the most primitive of all of the advanced and developed Western world, poverty is becoming widespread and mental health issues are on the rise. This makes gun ownership far more dangerous than in a stable country with a health, welfare and safety net like Switzerland.

Moreover, the argument that guns will protect from the government is rather ludicrous in the 21st Century. It is true, we need checks and balances on an ever expansive and increasingly genocidal American government. However, this isn't the days of the musket, ball and cannon. The arsenal of weaponry is no longer limited to small arms. The government has massive antisymmetric capabilities, and even if every single citizen owns an AR-15, that will not protect you from an advanced and trained military, with F-15s, Aircraft carriers, tanks and artillery, which the average citizen can't own and can't afford to own.

I know for a fact the American government could crush rebellion. The reason for this contention is despite the fact that the Iraqi army, the army of Belize, the Libyan army, the army of Panama and numerous other countries that America has invaded, had more advanced military hardware than the average American citizen, the US military still crushed them. Arms will not protect you from tyranny in this day an age.

What America needs is a constructive, rational, non-politicised and non-emotional dialogue on the dangers of guns and the positives/negatives of gun control. From this dialogue policy should be decided. I encourage gun training, as I think it is the best way to teach arms safety and to teach the people of the dangers of guns, but it is clear that this situation is no longer sustainable. Gun enthusiasts and the NRA are living in a disillusioned fantasy and American culture - where murder is encouraged - is no longer compatible with gun ownership in the same way that more liberal European cultures are.

It seems to me that the answer is to crack down on gun ownership in households that have an occupant with certain potentially dangerous mental illnesses Treat them the same as households with a felon. Although the other occupants may still own guns, they should not be able to store them on the premises. This would stop a major source of easy access for these mentally deranged idiots.

Also, there should be mandatory psychiatric testing for any potential gun buyer who has been on a prescribed mood altering drug within the last 10 years. And while we're at it, if they don't have one already, psychiatric professionals should have a legal obligation to report a positive diagnosis of potentially dangerous mental illness into the Federal background check database. Too many of these idiots seem to slip through the cracks and purchase legally.

Finally, raise the legal age of ownership for semi-automatics to 30. It seems most of these incidents involve perpetrators in their teens and early twenties. Get them out of the legal buying process for a few years. This would allow more time for potential problem buyers and previously undiagnosed lunatics to get themselves on the prohibited list before they could legally buy. It wouldn't stop all of the problems, but again, it would slow down a source of easy access.

All of these are reasonable restrictions that would help significantly without severely imposing upon the rights of the 100 million+ law abiding, responsible gun owners in this country.

I was WAITING for someone to post about gun control, and by golly it only took 45 min. First of all, Im sure your from a country where you let your government take away your rights, and the people dont seem to care. The fact you can turn this into political Bull$h!t is humorous to say the least. I watched the whole massacre story enfold from start till now, and let me tell you, I smelled GUN CONTROL from the moment it happened..Then came the news, then came the presidential speech, then came the bloke Piers Morgan ( a joke) to chime in...i just heard something that made sense to me. If we are going to ban guns, we might as well ban cars, ( According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,885 people died in traffic crashes in 2010 in the United States, including an estimated 10,228 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths last year.) Its not the gun/car its the person behind them that has the mind, brain, consciousness and should be held responsible. that is my two cents for now, but as an ATS member, i smell a conspiracy.....just my opinion but what happened after 9/11? a lot of our rights were stripped away. All they needed was a boogie man to help them pass the laws...So how many boogie men this year will it take to get some gun bans into action...hmmmmmm just be prepared for another massacre....if its in the cards..

I find it hilarious how people from other countries particularly the UK love to hate our Second Amendment. I honestly have to ask, "why do you care?" An entire ocean separates you from us "gun crazy redneck/cowboys". I don't care that you have chosen to abdicate all responsibility for your personal safety and sustenance to the State.

I've lived almost my entire life (36 yrs) under a roof with a firearm inside. Ironically enough the only meaningful stretch of my life where there wasn't a firearm under the same roof as me was during my time in the Army when I lived in the barracks. We've never had a Negligent Discharge or incident where a weapon was fired at anything other than something it was meant to at home. I saw several of those on the range and in the field in the Army.

We were taught to both fear and respect guns as young children. Also we were taught how to safely handle weapons before the age of ten. Up until my junior year of high school and the advent of "zero tolerance" policies it wasn't uncommon to see a rifle or shotgun on a gun rack in a pickup truck in my high school parking lot during deer season. There are guns in my home and I do have young children. It is my responsibility to teach them the same lessons about safe handling and proper use that I was taught by my parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles. I personally plan on taking my 7 year old daughter out to shoot her first gun within the next few months, closely supervised of course. Neither my wife or my mother have any objections as they both shot their first gun around the same age with their fathers, grandfathers, and uncles.

To me the Second Amendment is as important as the First Amendment. Telling me I should not be able to own a firearm is exactly equivalent to telling me that I shouldn't be able to criticize my government, worship whatever God I choose or not, and peaceably assemble in public.

I have no illusions as to the length of my survival should our government decide to confiscate guns, but I would rather die than give up that right.

reply to post by Liquesence


I haven't met a so-called "responsible" gun owner yet. They're all wannabe heroes looking for a gun fight. They're the ones that need guns the least! Imagine how much worse it would be if some idiot whipped out a gun and started shooting back. Yeah, more bullets flying; more people dead. That would have really make things better.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


yea but how many more robbery's and home invasions have taken place of massacres...people in your country know guns are banned so they know they can rob a house and not have to worry about getting busted with a gun. in America potential robbers think because of our guns...no one want to rob someone whos armed to the teeth...

Originally posted by davjan4
The gun restrictions will start soon. Obama during press confrence "we have gone through this too many times. We must take decisive action".

Hold on to your hats. And kiss the second amendment goodbye. The sheep are about to be disarmed.

The wolves will not be.

Hallelujah! Yes! Time for gun control. Time for CORRECT interpretation of the 2nd amendment! If you're not in the military or public safety, you have ZERO right to own a gun.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

So here I am sitting watching the news, I see a young boy talking about how he “saw and heard” the bullets of a gun man. The headline below this innocent child’s face reads “27 people killed in Connecticut shooting, 18 children”.

I am not to beat about the bush hear but as a British guy looking in on this I am shocked, there have been more of these type of mass shootings this year than I can count. Every month I am seeing some state governor passing on his heartfelt condolences to the families of the dead.

How about this instead America rather than having your leaders “apologise” to all the dead families how about you do this? Get out of the Wild West and the 18th century and BAN THE GUN!!! You are not cowboys anymore, you are not John Rambo the British are not about to invade you.

For the “guns don’t kill people, people do”, stop hiding behind an old cliché, if you lot bothered with proper gun control I would not be watching this disturbing story.

To be clear, I am not saying ban all guns or ban the gun overnight, what I am saying is that you lot need to grow up and some proper gun regulation. You need gun reform, it’s very simple, none of you gun enthusiasts needs 40 guns with 1200 rounds of ammunition.

Stop hiding behind that ancient bit of paper, your constitution, you all need to grow a set and sort out your gun problem before you have anoter 18 dead kids, who knows next time it could be one of yours, I pray it is not and i pray for the families of those affected

I completely understand how this all looks ridiculously obvious to a person from a normal, sane, rational country.

However, there IS a thread of truth in the "people kill people" argument in that the problem is that we are a violent, irrational, civilization who considers knee-jerk reactionism as a Supreme Virtue. We toss our mentally ill into the STREETS for god's sake....and then we stand around all mystified that by all accounts everyone who knew these gunmen always comment on how they were "very troubled" and "quite disturbed" before they snap.

The bottom line is that we are insane over here. Take away our guns...and you'll just have more bombings.

...if only our problems were as simple as gun control. Unfortunately, we more or less have to rebuild our entire shattered and broken civilization to solve our problems.

Originally posted by SweetChild

Originally posted by davjan4
The gun restrictions will start soon. Obama during press confrence "we have gone through this too many times. We must take decisive action".

Hold on to your hats. And kiss the second amendment goodbye. The sheep are about to be disarmed.

The wolves will not be.

Hallelujah! Yes! Time for gun control. Time for CORRECT interpretation of the 2nd amendment! If you're not in the military or public safety, you have ZERO right to own a gun.

It appears the school system has failed you. Your interpretation of the second amendment is incorrect.

Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

I tried telling them the same thing and they won't listen, they believe that if they can own guns they will shoot the shooters, which blatantly hasn't happened over the recent shootings.

So get ready to face a whole bunch of cowboys.

edit on 14-12-2012 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)

just curious as to where you are from.

you see, here in america, we don't just buy a gun at the grocery store while picking up some milk. there are massive hoops to jump through before you can have it. since it is so hard and costs so much money to acquire a gun most people don't bother. now take away the hoops, and voila! you have armed people who can take the badguy out.

also, federal law prohibits the carry of guns on any school campus, so therefore your strawman argument of "then why hasn't anybody stopped them already?" is invalid and holds nothing

Originally posted by SweetChild

Hallelujah! Yes! Time for gun control. Time for CORRECT interpretation of the 2nd amendment! If you're not in the military or public safety, you have ZERO right to own a gun.

The US Supreme Court disagrees with you. The 'militia' clause is overemphasized by the anti-gun crowd, but there are a number of problems with it, primary among them that the 'right of the people' is the same right of the citizenry as it applies in several other amendments. Another big problem with that argument is the Militia Act of 1792, which tells us that every free able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of 18 and 45 was considered militia. Every single one of them. This has been further refined through the years in US code, and includes all male citizens in that age range and does not require military service. Essentially, it is the draft-eligible pool of male citizens of the country.

Regardless, it actually doesn't even matter. Even if the 2nd amendment did not exist, civilian ownership of firearms would still be 100% legal throughout virtually the entire country, because there currently are no laws prohibiting it in most areas. The 2nd amendment is a protection from government restriction; it doesn't actually grant anything.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


So 320,000,000 people should be punished as a result of the actions of one person?

They also banned murder but did that stop murderers?

You should ask yourself some deep philosophical questions.

Originally posted by anton74

Originally posted by SweetChild

Originally posted by davjan4
The gun restrictions will start soon. Obama during press confrence "we have gone through this too many times. We must take decisive action".

Hold on to your hats. And kiss the second amendment goodbye. The sheep are about to be disarmed.

The wolves will not be.

Hallelujah! Yes! Time for gun control. Time for CORRECT interpretation of the 2nd amendment! If you're not in the military or public safety, you have ZERO right to own a gun.

It appears the school system has failed you. Your interpretation of the second amendment is incorrect.

My interpretation is exactly what the so-called founding fathers meant it to be. civil defense, ie. well regulated militia. What part of well-regulated do you not get? What part of militia do you not get? It is NOT the right for every lunatic running around shooting anything that moves and pretending to be some sort of hero. There is NO such thing as responsible gun ownership and yes, guns DO kill people.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
yea well if one gun would kill one person you would still yell ban all the guns , this is a terrible tragedy but saying ban guns because of it is just as bad, yes we do not need 20 30 40 50 or 100 round clips, but we have the right to own them if we so choose.My self do not see the need for them but then i am not on a ranch varmints can get out hand nor go target shooting every weekend, I use too, this is beside the point. If one person had a gun to stop this person i think they would use it.or would they?
What to do is the better question,
Do we ban the right to own legal fire arms.
Do we ban the sale of guns.
Do we ban the sale of clips
Do we ban the sale of ammo
Do we try to find out who is mentally fit.
Do we turn our schools into day prisons.
none of thees sound nor would be possible to do. Ok may be the last one the TSA and DHS could do this;turn our schools into day prisons locked door and Xray scanners and every door then a TSA pat down before going to class.

Originally posted by vor78

Originally posted by SweetChild

Hallelujah! Yes! Time for gun control. Time for CORRECT interpretation of the 2nd amendment! If you're not in the military or public safety, you have ZERO right to own a gun.

The US Supreme Court disagrees with you. The 'militia' clause is overemphasized by the anti-gun crowd, but there are a number of problems with it, primary among them that the 'right of the people' is the same right of the citizenry as it applies in several other amendments. Another big problem with that argument is the Militia Act of 1792, which tells us that every free able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of 18 and 45 was considered militia. Every single one of them. This has been further refined through the years in US code, and includes all male citizens in that age range and does not require military service. Essentially, it is the draft-eligible pool of male citizens of the country.

Regardless, it actually doesn't even matter. Even if the 2nd amendment did not exist, civilian ownership of firearms would still be 100% legal throughout virtually the entire country, because there currently are no laws prohibiting it in most areas. The 2nd amendment is a protection from government restriction; it doesn't actually grant anything.

If well regulated militia were not the intent of the amendment, why is it FIRST in the clause. It is not emphasized enough! If you want to follow a law written in the 1700s, then join the military -- and stay there. Otherwise, you have ZERO right or need to own a gun.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
The solution is simple metal detectors and armed guards at every entrance to the school so the school itself will be a gun free zone (except for the guards) and so long as you have multiple guards per entrance to cater for a guard going rogue you'll have a nice secure educational environment

Pretty crazy if you ask me.

People want tighter regs, and yet your idea is to have someone with A GUN at the school???

Is more guns the answer, or is it more guns is the problem??

Guns are real, people have them, some are bad people, some are good people that snap and go crazy. There are no easy answers, however I'v always felt less rules and laws would lead to a more lawful land.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Where I live we have grizzly bears, mountain lions, black bears, wolves, and so on, and by that I mean, sometimes right outside our front doors (so far only moose in my yard but is just me.... if you want pictures of bears in our houses, mountain lions in our yards, and wolves wandering the neighborhood, you need only look in our newspaper archives). I have no intention of giving up my guns.

I have no intention of killing any person. If I did, and I didn't have guns, I might use.... a sword, a spear, a knife, a chainsaw, an axe....... I might not kill as many people so quickly as someone with a lot of bullets and guns, but I could still kill, still cause terror, still act crazy.

I still believe that government should be of the people, by the people, and for the people, and lately I see the government acting paranoid. To me.... this means they just might be hiding things. The government should not fear the populace unless the government is no longer for the populace.

Should Orwellian matters continue, as the increasingly videoed British should be well aware of....... I personally would like the chance to fight back against an unjust government that gets out of control. Perhaps you can stage a sit in with tea in lieu of fighting back. America threw off its shackles thanks to its determination AND armed citizenry. THIS is why we have kept the right to bear arms. Sometimes words are not enough on their own, even over a civilized cup of tea.

I think SSRI's should be banned before guns are. Its proven FACT that these "drugs" people are put on make people bat # crazy. This guy was supposedly autistic. They treat that with SSRI's. You would have to be insane to kill your girlfriend, then go to a school, kill your mother and then EXECUTE 20 children.

Let's look at the REAL problem instead of shouting for "Gun Control". Because gun control only affects law abiding citizens. Criminals can get guns one way or another.