China School Knife Attack - Over 20 injured, including children

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by TheBorg

 

Sorry dude but China doesnt have anywhere near as many gun deaths either by total or when scaled to fit population sizes.
The only thing it compares to you guys in is total number of school massacres and even then twice as many died in the US than China

No...it is the government of China that murders people with guns since guns are controlled/banned in China... Instead the crazies use other weapons, because any intelligent person knows that crazies, and criminals don't care about laws...

The fact that people like you even think that banning guns makes them harder to get shows that you are not thinking clearly, and you want to ignore reality...

Have you even stopped to look at what has happened in the UK since the ban of guns there?...

Gun crime soars by 35%

Created: 9 January 2003 | Updated: 10 January 2003

The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

With new recording procedures taken into account the actual overall rise was just 2%, the Home Office said.
...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade


By James Slack
UPDATED:03:42 EST, 27 October 2009


Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.

The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.

Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.
...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

When you ban guns, you are only banning good people from owning them, which INCREASES CRIME WITH FIREARMS, because criminals find weapons in the BLACK MARKET...

Perhaps that is a word you should make yourself familiar with, BLACK MARKET, because you don't seem to know what it means...

No laws are EVER going to stop the BLACK MARKET, and even then what will happen is that more CRIMINALS, like rapists, and murderers will go after the weaker people since the criminals know that those people will have no firearms at all...

Leftwingers like yourself are just allowing for GOOD PEOPLE to be MURDERED, and even IMPRISONED for denfending themselves against CRIMINALS trying to rob them, rape them and even kill them...

BTW, in the U.S. the HIGHEST GUN CRIMES are committed in states, and /or cities where guns are banned or heavily restricted... Cities like New York, and Chicago...

Originally posted by Vilhelm

China School Knife Attack - Over 20 injured, including children

www.cbsnews.com

"A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.

The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located."

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.cnn.com
abcnews.go.com

The facts:

At around 7:40am, a man attacked a group of people outside of the Chenpeng Village’s Wanquan Elementary School with a knife.

Min Yingjun, 36, is in custody for the attack. He is said to be mentally ill.

22 children have been injured, a few are said to be in critical condition. No fatalities recorded.

1 adult was injured, said to be an elderly woman.

edit on 12/14/2012 by Vilhelm because: Fact updates

Maybe they should try passing some laws banning the use and sell of sharp objects to keep the public safe? Well, that's the kind of logic that the gun control advocates like to use anyways.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


I didn't prove your point, and the fact that you can't even admit to being wrong shows that nomatter what is shown to you you will continue claiming that "guns are evil, they must be banned"...

The murderer could have easily chosen to use alcohol, or wine bottles to make molotov cocktails and could have burned the children to death, and the death toll would have been much higher...

Are you going to ban alcohol, even rubbing alcohol, and wine?...

The fact that so many people have been murdered with knives shows that no matter what the criminal chooses to use he/she will acomplish that...

Knives, and clubs were also originally made to kill things, and even other people....

Are you going to ban EVERY knife and EVERY piece of wood because they were originally used for killing?...

Even before wood was used for tinder it was used as a weapon... That was it's original use, and the fact that you don't know this shows who really is stupid, and just making excuses because you want to ban a tool that gets your panties in a bunch...

edit on 15-12-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

*SIGH*

I have no issues admitting Im wrong when I am, hell I even made a thread once announcing I was completely wrong and had been arguing a falsehood. This is not one of those cases

Ok so lets see if you can admit to having a facetious argument.

Yes the murderer could have used other weapons but he had access to the best weapon, A gun and he killed 27 people, A similar (in fact almost identical) case involved a man with a knife and he didnt kill anyone but injured 20. what was the difference? Access to guns

Despite what knives or wood (I cant believe you used an argument that weak) were originally intended to be utilised for the fact remains that NOW they serve a purpose that isnt directly related to killing people.
As many of your fellow gun nuts have pointed out pretty much anything can be used as a weapon so saying "Well then lets ban all potential weapons" is quite possibly the weakest and most idiotic of an already weak and idiotic point of view. GUNS SERVE NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO KILL!!!!!!!!!!!


As for getting my panties in a bunch LMAO
The only time I like most other non Americans even think about guns is when a shooting spree happens in YOUR country.

Now to the UK

Its not 100% true that gun crime went up, when the laws took effect the way crime was reported changed giving the impression it went up. Im sure any UK member will tell you how reliable the Daily mail is, its about as good as Fox news.
The people now carrying guns in the UK are mainly immigrants, the vast majority of Poms do not want to own guns.

As for gun deaths which is what really counts (anyone can hold up a bank with a toy gun) they have actually been falling

You mentioned the black market, so since your so knowledgable about it can you inform me how the guns get to the black market? I was under the impression like most black market goods they come from the legal market and are either stolen from legal buyers or sold for a profit by people who purchased them legally
But since I know nothing about the black market Im sure Im wrong

Since guns were banned in Washington did you know the death rate from guns has dropped
WHAT A MASSIVE SHOCK!!!!!!!
In fact only one year in the decade after the ban was the death rate by gun higher than any year in the previous decade.
Before you say "well other ways of killing people would have increased" No it didnt, the only statisticall significant change was a lower death by firearm reducing the overall death rate.

Im happy to play this game all day, yeah youll get more support and stars but big deal, Im right your wrong.
Guns kill people and should be banned.
I dont live in the US so I couldnt care less, carry a gun, buy guns for everyone you know as Xmas presents just dont delude yourself into thinking making guns readily available will in anyway reduce gun deaths.

Seriously only someone who is completely deluded could believe having more guns in circulation would reduce gun crime.

P.s forgot about China, where not talking about governments were talking about lone nut cases and besides I doubt many countries kill more people with guns than the good ol US of A.

I look forward to your rebuttal

So let me get this straight:

A tragedy occurs whereby a lunatic/mentally unstable person gets guns and shoots up a school (ring any bells) and kills lots of people, mostly kids.
So in response, some pro-gun morons somewhere, dig around and find a story about knives injuring and killing people too? Is that right, really?

In order to justify the insane, and extremely dangerous obsession that the USA has with guns, people have to go and try and 'prove' that other weapons can kill people too.
Just pathetic.

There is no other civilised, western nation on earth who has the kind of sick obsession and dependency on guns that America has, none.

And sadly, this will never end because of the cultural mentality.
These tragedies will happen again & again & again.

Yet more innocent children harmed. What is going on? I know the cynic in me wants to say, "Welcome to life on planet Earth" (to myself - I would never say that to someone else) as I know children die all the time in such ways. But that doesn't diminish the awfulness of it. At least not for me. I hope humanity one day abandons its violent propensities.

The last few days' news has left me feeling very sad.

Peace.

Originally posted by jessieg
Oh ban all knives. Ban all sharp and pointy things!

Life would become very difficult for all of us if we did that don't you think? This incident was horrible but at least the kids survived. Now if this man had used a Glock, a Sig Sauer or a freakin Colt assault rifle they probably wouldn't have.

Condulences to the parents who lost children in the senseless attacks in schools in china and america today .... with things like that this world make hell look like a paradise... damn... need a drink ....

Neither the Chinese nor the Americans know how to conduct a massacre proper like...

reply to post by Xquizit


This may happen around the world every couple of months and the MSM only reports the ones that suit their agenda.
Or
It could be people going nuts about the Myan calander end date.
The next six days will tell.

Originally posted by TheBorg
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

What I'm seeing by your posts in this thread is that you hold a position that ALL guns should be removed from the hands of regular citizens, in an effort to make everyone safer. Am I correct?

If so, then might I ask how you would mandate a law such as this, and 100% insure that NO ONE, even those who don't care anything about your law, would be prevented from attaining any weapons? If you cannot stop those who disregard your "law" from getting weapons, then all you have reasonably done is disarmed the only true defenders you had against such atrocious acts. I find this line of thinking to be totally without merit, and to be totally honest, self-destructive. We CANNOT allow people like this, who in my opinion are the definition of the word "terrorist" to dictate how we live our lives. If we do, then they have won.

If however, you are not saying that all guns should be removed from the hands of citizens, then I ask you, why restrict the ownership of firearms from those citizens who exhibit the rational thinking skills to properly handle one? To be honest, the reason more people don't carry firearms is because of the ever increasing and ever restricting laws on where one can carry. All that these laws do is give the criminals (the only ones with guns by the rationale of the gun-rights activists) the ability to walk into the areas with guns that are off limits to law abiding citizens, and proceed to shoot to their heart's content.

To be totally honest, in an Utopian world, no one would need to have a firearm. Unfortunately, we don't live in such a world. We live in a world where bad things happen because good people do nothing. Not because they don't want to, but because other people prevent them from doing so by putting laws in place that prevent them from doing what they should have been doing all along.

TheBorg
ATS Member and Moderator

edit on 14-12-2012 by TheBorg because: for clarity.

I have not finished reading the thread, but this is exactly wtf I have been trying to tell people. I just could not find the words this member of the forum has on this topic.

If people would understand this simple concept, LIVES would be SAVED!

Even if we banned guns, how are you going to magically stop criminals from getting them? You can point to China, but you can also point to Mexico. We are on this side of the world. Let's look to the south for an example of what gun control does in the West.

Originally posted by stargatetravels
So let me get this straight:

A tragedy occurs whereby a lunatic/mentally unstable person gets guns and shoots up a school (ring any bells) and kills lots of people, mostly kids.
So in response, some pro-gun morons somewhere, dig around and find a story about knives injuring and killing people too? Is that right, really?

In order to justify the insane, and extremely dangerous obsession that the USA has with guns, people have to go and try and 'prove' that other weapons can kill people too.
Just pathetic.

There is no other civilised, western nation on earth who has the kind of sick obsession and dependency on guns that America has, none.

And sadly, this will never end because of the cultural mentality.
These tragedies will happen again & again & again.

So we should ban guns, right? And instead crazy people can do what China does, use knives to kill. And our crime rates can double. But hey at least some kids won't die, right? We'll just drink the koolaid and pretend all the deaths via criminals that will result in a gun ban won't exist. Just ban guns. That will solve everything. Criminals will be dealt with by police. Just hide in a corner and hopefully the police will arrive in time to save your retarded ass.

You people need to wake up. The stats don't lie. When guns are banned crime goes up. Ultimately it leads to more sorrow and suffering than if guns were legal. The facts are out there. I suggest you search for them. Banned weapons only serve one purpose: To protect the government against a people that can't fight back, ever. And the idiots go, ooooh nooooo. People are dying by legally owned guns. It happens a fraction of the time. Let's ban guns! Now everyone will be safe forever. Just ask the UK. Ooooh. Right. Nevermind.

How many times must we say this before it sinks in: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. When you don't have guns, you resort to other crap. Like a china man resorting to using a fricking KNIFE. Thereby proving the damn point, people kill people. Guns happen to be the most lethal weapon to use. You are never going to change that fact. There will always be a most lethal option. What, are we going to ban bow and arrow next? Then spears? Then swords? Axes? Knives? Our FISTS???? Am I getting through to you at all here? Or should I just be talking to a brick wall instead?

Oh but I get it. The logic is that without guns and their ease of ensuring death at a distance so long as your aim is on the money, less people would be dying. Even just one life not passing away is worth banning 100% of guns because 1% of them are involved in crimes, right? I did not pull that figure from my ass. 1% of legally owned guns in America are used in crimes. So we should ban all 100%, right? Because America is soooooo uncivilized with it's 1% of citizens going around committing crimes with guns, and just skip the hassles of ensuring crazy ass kids stealing their parent's guns can't just walk into a school and shoot everything. Just ban guns. Easy peasy. Trust the cops to save you. Trust them to be there in 3 seconds flat when you need them. Save the children. Save yourselves. And maybe when a criminal pays you a visit perhaps he'll just leave when you ask him nicely. Maybe he'll even give you his gun so you can turn it into the police because he got teary eyed with your speech about how banned guns were supposed to be better for everyone, and that even criminals are supposed to follow the rules.

Fairy tales, I swear.

reply to post by Voldster


Anyone who doesn't see it just doesn't want to.
The police are a reactionary force. That means they show up just in time to take statements from witnesses, inform your family, and ask them to ID you. You would have to be very lucky to have a cop be there and save you.

Do you really think our government will keep the guns out? They (the criminals, and possibly the government too) smuggle freaking cars, guns, drugs, people, and whatever else they feel like EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

A gun ban will result in the US taking a big loss to the economy and also to our safety.

reply to post by Vilhelm


Amazing someone could kill 22 kids with a knife.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I think your name is hilarious considering you don't know nearly as much as you think. Gotta call me a hillbilly cause I don't agree with you? Mature.

you guys can argue all day and all night.. doesnt matter guns .. knives ... whatever... children were murdered in schools in two countries today... no damn laws or restrictions will bring back their lives.... not a damn thing will change ... humanity needs to grow up and learn all life is valuable nt to be wasted or needlessly thrwn away.. doesnt matter what damn country your from... all life is sacred... apolgies mods... just tired of pointless arguing and fingerpointing... am also have several drinks... disgusted that humanity nt learn to value life...

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by TheBorg

 

Im sure your aware I meant no disrespect or harm. I also wasnt implying you or any other gun owners are cowards merely that the combination of the media and guns being everywhere makes people fearful of not having one.

Regardless of circumstances it is unfortunate that anyone feels the need for a gun, at least that much we agree on.

But you did. You imply it every time you call responsible gun owners psychos or idiots or morons. Every time you claim we're all living in fear. All you do is insult those of us who are responsible firearms owners. Tell me exactly why anyone should even listen to your insulting rhetoric.

It is insulting, petty, low and sad.

I am a responsible gun owner, I do not live in fear. The world is not a nice place and I have a wife and three year old child who are my responsibility. Mine, not the police's, not yours. The only one who can even hope to protect them against those wishing them harm is me. The police have an average response time of 5 minutes. That is not good enough for the safety of my wife and child. I have a tool to give my family a better chance of surviving a bad situation.

I don't cower in fear in the corner pointing my 45 at the door.
I follow the laws, and try to be a decent person as much as any other average american. Not everyone does though, and as I said the average response time for a police officer is 5 minutes. They are not capable of preventing crime. It is physically impossible. My right to self defense and the defense of my family is natural born right. As the constitution of my country recognizes.

Violence and murder do not depend on firearms, but often survival does. So long as criminals exist, I will own a firearm. It's not fear, it's common sense.

Again, stop insulting people, you should know better.

Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

I think your name is hilarious considering you don't know nearly as much as you think. Gotta call me a hillbilly cause I don't agree with you? Mature.

I provide facts and a well reasoned argument you come back with a quip about my name and whine about being insulted

You obviously dont have the intelligence to put a decent point of view forward or what Im saying is too hard to refute.
And whining about the hillbilly thing

Rich considering your first reply to me started with

Wake up idiot, people are bad.

Mature

reply to post by Vilhelm


Worldwide demonic attacks are ramping up as we approach the End of Days....

Come quickly, Ancient of Days

Originally posted by optimus primal


But you did. You imply it every time you call responsible gun owners psychos or idiots or morons. Every time you claim we're all living in fear. All you do is insult those of us who are responsible firearms owners. Tell me exactly why anyone should even listen to your insulting rhetoric.

It is insulting, petty, low and sad.

I am a responsible gun owner, I do not live in fear. The world is not a nice place and I have a wife and three year old child who are my responsibility. Mine, not the police's, not yours. The only one who can even hope to protect them against those wishing them harm is me. The police have an average response time of 5 minutes. That is not good enough for the safety of my wife and child. I have a tool to give my family a better chance of surviving a bad situation.

I don't cower in fear in the corner pointing my 45 at the door.
I follow the laws, and try to be a decent person as much as any other average american. Not everyone does though, and as I said the average response time for a police officer is 5 minutes. They are not capable of preventing crime. It is physically impossible. My right to self defense and the defense of my family is natural born right. As the constitution of my country recognizes.

Violence and murder do not depend on firearms, but often survival does. So long as criminals exist, I will own a firearm. It's not fear, it's common sense.

Again, stop insulting people, you should know better.

Sorry but you do live in fear

You fear something will happen to your family so you carry a gun,
As stated in the post you quoted Im not equating fear with cowardice so jump off your high horse cowboy.
You and every other gun owner DOES live in fear.

So my question is why dont Aussies or Poms have this fear? why is it that we dont feel the need for guns?

You dont have a tool you have a weapon, but lets not argue semantics.

I didnt say all gun owners were psychos, I said you were gun nuts. By that I mean you will stick to your love of guns no matter what, I could refute every single thing thats brought up and you wouldnt budge from your position of needing a firearm.

But again why is this unique to the USA within western society?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by optimus primal


But you did. You imply it every time you call responsible gun owners psychos or idiots or morons. Every time you claim we're all living in fear. All you do is insult those of us who are responsible firearms owners. Tell me exactly why anyone should even listen to your insulting rhetoric.

It is insulting, petty, low and sad.

I am a responsible gun owner, I do not live in fear. The world is not a nice place and I have a wife and three year old child who are my responsibility. Mine, not the police's, not yours. The only one who can even hope to protect them against those wishing them harm is me. The police have an average response time of 5 minutes. That is not good enough for the safety of my wife and child. I have a tool to give my family a better chance of surviving a bad situation.

I don't cower in fear in the corner pointing my 45 at the door.
I follow the laws, and try to be a decent person as much as any other average american. Not everyone does though, and as I said the average response time for a police officer is 5 minutes. They are not capable of preventing crime. It is physically impossible. My right to self defense and the defense of my family is natural born right. As the constitution of my country recognizes.

Violence and murder do not depend on firearms, but often survival does. So long as criminals exist, I will own a firearm. It's not fear, it's common sense.

Again, stop insulting people, you should know better.

Sorry but you do live in fear

You fear something will happen to your family so you carry a gun,
As stated in the post you quoted Im not equating fear with cowardice so jump off your high horse cowboy.
You and every other gun owner DOES live in fear.

So my question is why dont Aussies or Poms have this fear? why is it that we dont feel the need for guns?

You dont have a tool you have a weapon, but lets not argue semantics.

I didnt say all gun owners were psychos, I said you were gun nuts. By that I mean you will stick to your love of guns no matter what, I could refute every single thing thats brought up and you wouldnt budge from your position of needing a firearm.

But again why is this unique to the USA within western society?

Well considering many people I have been cool with have been shot, often from strays, I would say I wish guns were not in the world at all. I still carry one everyday.

have you ever considered that you are the scared one? You are scared of the idea that YOUR safety is YOUR responsibility. You don't like the idea of having to shoot someone to save your own life or the lives of others. I have known people who have had to do that. In fact, I have had people try to kill me with a gun.

I submit it is you who is scared that it actually is all up to the individual when it comes to self defense. The police will rarely be there to save your life.

Want proof? Go ask a cop what they think about mentally stable citizens carrying weapons. You might be surprised what they tell you.