Prejudice Against the Fat

reply to post by PrplHrt

I think that Barbara Walters is an uppity old uber liberal and she brought up Christie's weight as a personal attack because she disagrees with his politics and wanted to belittle him- simple as that.

I have never treated anyone differently than anyone else just for being fat, but for many years I did think that fat people just didn't have the drive to change their circumstance. My opinion on that has changed drastically. I got a pinched nerve two years ago which has severely curtailed my physical activity. Mix in the hormone changes that came with the onset of menopause and the outcome was 20 extra pounds that will not come off no matter how little I eat, what I eat or how much I exercise (I exercise until I am in so much pain I have no choice but to stop). It has given me a completely different perspective about fat people, and I don't make any assumptions anymore.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by PrplHrt

 

Sorry, it's not a conspiracy.

If you are obese, than you are unhealthy. Period.

I don't think it should be a qualification for President, other than how will you encourage a nation of healthy eaters if you yourself are not healthy?

How can you start helping America get off the sugar dealer and on to proper consumption and excercise if you yourself do you expouse those beliefs?

~Tenth

As a healthcare worker I agree with your entire post. It's interesting that both morbid obesity and smoking were mentioned in this thread. Now, personally, I happen to believe that anything is ok in moderation. I think moderation is the key to living a balanced life. But unfortunately, there are a lot of people who can't regulate themselvs and end up in terrible extremes. I've had two cases just this past week of terrible examples of obesity and smoking in which each person clearly couldn't manage themselves or their health. I'm not going to go into great detail in either case but needless to say the person who was morbidly obese was so because quite simple his caloric intake is greater than his energy expenditures. No medical cause, no family history, no endocrine reason. When you're to the point that you haven't seen your genitalia in years and basic toileting is a major undertaking it's time to do something positive to improve your health. I'm not joking and I'm not being mean. The other person, despite severe respiratory problems which leave the person chronically hypoxic, cyanotic, and anemic, it's time to put the cigarettes down and take control of your life. How can someone expect anyone to care about them or take interest in their health when they are so reckless with their own health and well-being.

Originally posted by davjan4
Our shining example of health:

www.surgeongeneral.gov...

I go through dozens of charts a day. Nearly all of them have obesity or morbid obesity as one of the diagnosis. The others usually are diabetes and all that goes with it: perepheral neuropathy, kidney disease, vision problems... the list goes on. The number one reason in the US for amputations is diabetes. Type ll Diabetes is preventable, and if you have it, curable by losing weight, stopping eating crap and start moving (weightlifting or otherwise doing heavy lifting).

As a see obese patients, it breaks my heart. So much suffering... and it's preventable. And billions of $ could be saved as well. And make no mistake: we ALL pay for obesity through higher premiums

But go ahead. Defend it.

Oh, and thanks for the job security.

edit on 13-12-2012 by davjan4 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2012 by davjan4 because: (no reason given)

Hello davjan4,

You hit the nail on the head "job security." Do you actually think the epidemic of obesity is a coincidence? The pharmaceutical companies are in heaven selling medications for complications due to obesity. Their existence relies on illness and disease.

Think about who profits from all these cases of obesity? And it's not just the pharmaceutical companies.

Best,
yesterdaysreality

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

 

They came for the potheads, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a pothead.
They came for the smokers, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a smoker.
They came for the drinkers and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a drinker.
Now they are coming for the overweight; will anybody stand?





They can't. They're too fat to get up.

edit on 12/14/2012 by DENBY because: spell correct

reply to post by PrplHrt


Aren't we a little too quick to stick the word 'prejudice' to everything? If an obese man dropped dead in front of me I would still administer CPR. If I witnessed an obese woman crying it would make me sad. If an obese person won the lottery I would be happy for them.

But, that doesn't mean that I don't notice the fat. I can't help it, I'm human. Just today I saw an obese girl riding a bike and I was disgusted by the fact that that bicycle seat was nowhere in site. I've seen obese people eating in restaurants and I could almost hear the fat bubbling under their skin.

Are these thoughts shallow? Maybe. But, this is what we humans do. We judge people by their looks. And it's not just 'US' looking at 'THEM' because I have never heard an obese person say, "I love my fat'.

Point of order:

Barbara Walters found it cruel and hurtful when she was parodied on SNL as 'Babwa Wawa'.

Just saying.

reply to post by PrplHrt


Freedom...yeah there is a difference between freedom smoke and someone blowing tabacco in your face. There is a place and time for everything.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by PrplHrt

 

Sorry, it's not a conspiracy.

If you are obese, than you are unhealthy. Period.

I don't think it should be a qualification for President, other than how will you encourage a nation of healthy eaters if you yourself are not healthy?

How can you start helping America get off the sugar dealer and on to proper consumption and excercise if you yourself do you expouse those beliefs?

~Tenth

Britains most well loved and famous prime minster winston churchill was fat.
I don't like him but everyone here is convinced by the education system and media that he is a complete legend.

Originally posted by micmerci
Some people feel that if one cannot manage their waistline how could they manage something more difficult. Is it a fair assumption? I don't really know. If we are being honest, maybe overweight people are not the most motivated.

The same rule then applies to smokers, drinkers, sex addicts, people that have been in more than 1 relationship in life etc. Would you think this is fair? Obesity and being fat is a problem, a psychological issue as is drinking, smoking and many, MANY other problems. Following by this assumption then almost nobody would be able to manage anything brilliant only because they couldn't deal with some OTHER problem they have. This is completely silly, the most absurd thing I've ever heard perhaps.

Originally posted by ThePeopleParty

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by PrplHrt

 

Sorry, it's not a conspiracy.

If you are obese, than you are unhealthy. Period.

I don't think it should be a qualification for President, other than how will you encourage a nation of healthy eaters if you yourself are not healthy?

How can you start helping America get off the sugar dealer and on to proper consumption and excercise if you yourself do you expouse those beliefs?

~Tenth

Britains most well loved and famous prime minster winston churchill was fat.
I don't like him but everyone here is convinced by the education system and media that he is a complete legend.

Yeah? What about smokers? And drinkers? Are they healthy? Is it being corrupt, for instance, being mentally healthy? Think about it. Fat people just have a controlling dysfunction but they live life the same as YOU, they eat the same things, have the same worries and are ruled by the same idiots you are as well.

When is anyone's else health any business but anyone's but their own's? And people they ASK to help them that agree to do it?

My grandmother was VERY fat. She had 9 kids. She raised them all well mostly by herself.
EVERYONE loved her. When she died, they could not get all the flowers in the funeral home.
She was HUGE. She was like, 4'11 and weighed 360 pounds.

She outlived my thin grandpa by many years past the average lifespan- she was 72 when she died but this was back in the 70s. She never went to the doctor before she got sick with cancer- and she died a month later so she wasn't nearly as big a 'drain on the healthcare system' as my dad is- who is a health NUT of perfect weight, and perfect spa workouts at least 3 times a week and he is CONSTANTLY in the hospital for the last 10 years with a bad heart. He ran marathons. Our house was filled with his trophies. He was TOTALLY selfish as a man - caring more about his health than us. He was always running, sports, never had time for family.

BLEH- I'll take my fat ol grandma any day- she managed a slew of kids WELL on no money at all- and would have probably made a good president because she was the world's best diplomat. EVERYONE came to her for advice.

It is STUPID to look at someone's weight and discount them. It is STUPID. If the fat person is the smartest person that can save your life, and you look at them and say, what can you do, you're fat and can't even manage your own weight.? Well, you die.

And that's what happens. This country gets what they deserve.

There is a national campaign to make people hate fat people Don't you guys have a fat grandmother or fat uncle or aunt that was PURE GOLD? Don't you have SOMEONE that has taught you to look beneath the surface?

Or are at least half of you immature and the other half of you on the govt. payroll?

Did you see the article about us kicking people out of the military for being overweight? Did you see the articles about how obesity is a national security crisis?

You want to know what the agenda is? it isn't health - it's bodies to kill in the war machine.
I ain't got time for this crap. Barbara Walters is probably under the same directive as the national media to do whatever she can to discourage this hatred.

it's going to end up with serial killers targeting fat people, and half of people on the Internet will have wished that to fruition with their vile, hateful comments?

Does this nation not have enough self hate already? No wonder this country is so messed up. People are shallow, vapid, and stupid. I swear it seems like half the folks out there have rings in their noses that attach to the TV.

If a person wants a job as a chef, then being fat isn't going to be brought up. But if that same person wants a job which gives him responsibility for many peoples lives and money, with much power, then his weight will be considered- because it tells about his capacity for self control and discipline! That matters when you hand someone that much power over others!

But you know, in the US you hear cries that predjudice is wrong all the time. My thinking is, if it stays on the level of peer pressure, social attitudes (as opposed to legitamate legal actions like imprisoning all fat people in concentration camps) then I don't see the problem.

A community, a society, provides limits and guidelines for it's members. "Norms" to help them determine and stear themselves, and do so in coordination. Some part of all of us is a social animal and craves that security. Those norms are going to evolve towards the well being of the individual health wise. Once the negative impact of a popular thing becomes evident the societal pressure will be applied (like what happened with smoking).

Most cultures understand this aspect of collective life. But in the US we get everyone conditioned to strive towards being independant, individual, and "not following the crowd".

Here's what I think about that-
Even if a cultures values highly individualism, ANY large grouping of people will have a percentage of the population that naturally tends towards being more social minded than individualistic. Nurture doesn't wipe that out. You just get people going against their nature and struggling with it.

If you have a natural inclinaton towards individualism, then what others say or think, and whether the collective approves, doesn't matter to you. It doesn't strike any chords, doesn't push any buttons. It does, however, provides a nice contrast for you to really experience your individualism!

If it bothers you to see societal pressure to conform to norms of health and behavior, than you must be someone for whom that matters, someone who desires the security of the collective community. So why not just embrace that part of yourself and let it influence you?

Trying to pretend you are individualistic when you are not only causes inner conflict.But then again, this is the connundrum of a culture that teaches it's members not to want to be members.

I don't know if that was clear. It is for you to be however you wish to be, but if you also want to insist that all others approve, you are fighting a vain battle.

This is a subject that bothers me greatly. I had a very good friend at university who had huge prejudice against fat people. She was very wealthy, and when the nanny agency sent her a new girl to be her nanny to allow my friend to be a full time student, she was horrified that they sent her "the fattest nanny she had ever seen". I was mid twenties at the time, and frankly shocked at the blatant disgust she voiced. I told her I thought it was a little harsh that she didn't even give the girl a chance before making that judgement, and her opinion and expectation that she would be lazy, careless, rude and insensitive was perhaps not related to her weight. I had to eat my words as this morbidly obese new nanny did infact turn out to be all of those things. Still I didn't think there would be any connection to her weight. There couldn't be, surely. Fat people are just victims of metabolism, or hormones, or something........

Then a few years later, I had the mad experience of being with a partner who was what we call now super morbidly obese. I have to add that he WAS NOT like that when I met him. Within fours years however, he ballooned in weight for various reasons, and I got to watch first hand how the mindset and victim mentality of the seriously overweight can work. I'm not saying this is the case for every person with a weight problem, but I'm sure it's pretty typical.

Now he was a lot of good things....smart, creative, focused when he wanted to be, sociable, funny. Unfortunately he was also a lot of bad things, and one of these was that he had a massive sense of entitlement to whatever he wanted in that moment, including an insane food addiction. And yes, it was an addiction. We couldn't go shopping without him wanting...no, insisting...that we stop after just an hour for something to eat, even though we maybe had lunch just before leaving the house. Everything was extreme...the amount he spent on food, the behaviour he displayed trying to shed the weight, which never worked, and always involved spending huge amounts of money and involving as many people as possible to pay attention to him. His personal habits, hygiene, even how he moved around the house became very lazy and quite honestly....disgusting. All because he was so overweight, and either couldn't be bothered, or said he didn't have the energy.

I've had long enough to think about this now since we split and try and reason out the causes, or some of them. Firstly, there is a chemical addictive issue here, that is manufactured by food corporations who want to sell us more of their products, and possibly more of their drugs too, when we get food-sick, so to a large extent, we are being manipulated very heavily to be addicts, who can't or won't cook natural food ourselves, and we seem to be oblivious to what this sugar loaded chemical crap is doing to our minds, bodies, energy systems. Collectively, we need to do all that we can to break this cycle and get back to proper home cooked natural food. And no...it's not expensive.

Secondly, there is also a campaign to be kinder to fat people...we cannot discriminate, we can't be judgemental, we can't be critical, and this is feeding their sense of helplessness and entitlement even more. I've seen this kind of behaviour first hand for years, and I tried really hard to help him deal with it and get healthier, but he didn't want to do it....he wanted things done FOR him, not have to do them himself. Making allowances for and being non judgemental of fat people makes them worse. I've seen it, I've lived with it, and I believe that what I witnessed is a very typical case...I've heard the same opinions and excuses uttered by many other overweight people since. It's not your hormones, your glands, your metabolism, your genetics, your depression, your medication.

Fat people are smart, clever, funny, creative, completely competent in any way you care to choose, except in the understanding that if the calories in are more than the calories out, and they don't get their backsides off the couch on a regular basis, their will gain weight. We are not being the control freaks here...we have to encourage them to become control freaks over what they put in their mouths. Sure, if they want to be fat then fine...go ahead and consume, but don't expect to be babied over it. Don't expect to be looked after and fussed over for something you've created entirely by yourself...it's unfair and a complete waste of resources.

So could we have this overweight guy as president? Sure...why not? Some people are genuinely ok with being fat and it doesn't affect their self esteem, or even their behaviour that much, and absolutely not their level of competence. I would see his weight issue as a possible red flag, and probably a personal issue for him that would never affect his judgement in other ways.

I would still be saying to him to eat more brown rice and vegetables, forget cheese and walk the dog five miles a day....

As with everything, context is the key.

Would being fat stop someone from achieving high political office? No, of course not.

Would being fat stop someone from getting to the 100m Olympic Final? Yep, you would think so.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Just because you have a weakness in one area (in this case, size) that doesn't mean you still cannot be a success. Equally though, if your weakness is identified in your chosen field as holding you back, that doesn't mean you are suffering from prejudice.

Hope that makes sense.

While I don't agree with prejudice in any form, I do think that they ruling of a country should be by a fit, healthy person.

What sort of image would it portray to the nations youth if the president was obese? How on Earth could the rising problem of obesity be tackled if the man at the top, himself, was obese? Obesity is a huge problem, particularly in the US and increasingly the UK. It is not something to flaunt and say 'I'm proud to be big' or 'Big is beautiful' and all these other sayings that large people often use to deflect criticism. Yes most men, myself included prefer their ladies with curves but there's a difference between curvy/ cuddly and downright obese. It is not the same as being gay or being of any particular ethnic background; obesity IS reversible. In my opinion, it is in most cases a self-inflicted disease and is often created through a persons own lifestyle choices. Yes, in cases there are medical reasons which are excusable and understandable but if it simply stems from eating too much and exercising too little, then it is inexcusable and a person of this nature should not be deemed fit to run one of the most powerful nations on Earth.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
In ANY case, I pay more taxes in Canada, because my neighbor down the street wants to stuff his face fulll of twinkies everyday and end up with cardio vascular disease and diabetes by age 22.

You also probably pay more in taxes in Canada because of women who can't keep their knees together and men who can't keep it in their pants and end up with abortions and STDS that require treatment, people who use cell phones and get brain cancer, lead foot drivers who get in car accidents and have to have limbs chopped off, idiots who ride bicycles, morons who leave their home on icy days, slipping and cracking their asses on their front walkway, workers who lift boxes improperly and hurt their backs, workers who lift boxes properly and still hurt their backs, old farts who live so long they manage to develop conditions that don't even have names, yet do manage to have expensive treatments to manage, and individuals with cat allergies who simply cannot bring themselves to send fluffy to the pound.

In other words, you pay more taxes in Canada because Canada has a damned ignorant policy of making everybody pay the health expenses of everybody else rather than being legitimately fair and expecting people to pay for their own damn health care and, in turn, shoulder a little bit of personal responsibility for their unhealthy behaviors. Oops, how can I be so forgetful, silly goose? Some idiot installed virtually the same system here in the US. *facepalm* Well, now I feel a bit foolish for calling Canada out on it, so I suppose we can just reiterate everything above to also include the USA in a few years.

Originally posted by jiggerj
If an obese man dropped dead in front of me I would still administer CPR. If I witnessed an obese woman crying it would make me sad. If an obese person won the lottery I would be happy for them.

That is very impressive and humanitarian of you...

Many response in this thread, if you applied a protected CHOICE scenario to, would be almost universally considered as biggotted. Example:
Religion is a choice as much as being fat is, but see how far you'd make it stating:
"I was so disgusted, watching that Christian buying Twinkies at the store."
Homosexuality may or may not be a choice, but transvestitism certainly is a choice... yet many communities have passed protections for them, and usually you'd take a lot of grief for openly mocking them or admitting revulsion.
Bald people have a clear choice of wearing a hat, wig, or shaving the rest of their head... try commenting on how stupid someone with thinning hair looks and see the reactions of others.

The list could go on. And, before anyone wonders, I'm technically a fat man. No, I don't sit around ashamed of that, my health is far better than a lot of "normal" weight people I know (just had a physical 2 months ago, all tests perfect), I can outhustle most people across a mud flat in hip waders, and I'm a pretty happy person aside from politics and the overall state of this country. I don't eat because I'm trying to hide something or fill a need, I eat because my food tastes pretty damn good.

It would be such a bad image for America if an obese man or woman was president.

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
It would be such a bad image for America if an obese man or woman was president.

I think it would be refreshing if for no other reason than the difference between having a president who is constantly putting crap into his mouth rather than the usual, a president with crap constantly flowing out of his mouth.

Seriously man, I think we've already bridged the image gap where the American president is concerned. Gluttony, along with being the most minor of the seven deadly sins, is also the only remaining of the seven which hasn't served multiple terms as POTUS. We've had adulterers, murderers, liars (boy howdy!), thieves, pridefull SOBs, wrathful idiots, lazy do nothing. Besides, virtually all of DC's politicians are little more than a bunch of bloated pigs at a trough, in word, deed, and image. If the individual is honest and a good leader, who gives two flips whether he's portly?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6


In other words, you pay more taxes in Canada because Canada has a damned ignorant policy of making everybody pay the health expenses of everybody else rather than being legitimately fair and expecting people to pay for their own damn health care and, in turn, shoulder a little bit of personal responsibility for their unhealthy behaviors.

Such *damned* systems remind us that each man is NOT an island, and you have to make a choice between being part of the group or out of it. If you are in, then you have the responsibility to take care of yourself- for your self is important to the whole.

If you want the freedom to destroy yourself, make yourself sick, weak, handicapped, then that means being on your own. But that means staying OFF the Damned roads , not tryng to send your damned letters through the postal service, not sending your kids to the public schools , not accepting social security in old age, nor using handicapped ramps if you end up in a wheelchair, and most importantly, must leave the country, or find some other way to NOT benefit from the protection of the military being provided by that society and being paid for by it.

It doesn't make sense to expect your freedom to be protected by the herd, and also be exempt from any responsbility to keeping yourself alive and healthy as a productive component of it. Expect your people to give their lives to protect people who are killing themselves knowingly with diabetes, heart disease, or emphisema?

It's no fair to expect that, and the socialization of healthcare just makes us have to face that and acknowledge it.
It was already true that one persons health effects others in a society, even if it wasn't openly obvious.
It is true RIGHT NOW.
We just didn't want to face it before, and the younger generation is sick of our denial of our interconnected-ness.