Hamas Can Never be a Peace Partner

reply to post by intrepid


So CNN, Jerusalem Post, Haaeretz, the boston globe....all state propaganda? No such thing as a free press? Completely equivalent to the noxious Jew hatred seen in Palestinian TV and newspapers?

This sort of reductionism doesn't lead anywhere. By this logic, this site is propaganda. Every thread is propaganda. Every word we speak "promotes" some view someone holds, and so is propaganda.

There are fundamental differences, intrepid, between the Jerusalem Post and the filth on Hamas' TV.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by intrepid

 

So CNN, Jerusalem Post, Haaeretz, the boston globe....all state propaganda? No such thing as a free press?

Right. Even in the States the MSM is merely the PR arm of the government.

There are fundamental differences, intrepid, between the Jerusalem Post and the filth on Hamas' TV.

That's YOUR bias. Same crap spouted both ways imo. Lies and propaganda are lies and propaganda no matter what it's clothed up in. A pig in a dress is still a pig.

reply to post by intrepid


So, what is your agenda? To continue to stay off topic and derail this thread so you don't have to admit your own biases that support Muslim extremists?

reply to post by dontreally

I'm open to suggestions. What is Israel to do about Hamas?

You want it in french?

Coup de Grace

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by dontreally

 

I am a christian supporter of Israel and her God given rights
to the land!
I am also not politically correct and must refrain from posting
my opinions of islam and hamas.

I'm not politically correct either, but we're seeing the days when offending people just might become illegal. God forbid that day, because that is the day free speech gets flushed down the toilet for good.

Originally posted by talklikeapirat

Seeking the truth is definitely not what you are doing, whatever it is, get your facts first then you can distort them as you please.

That you are qouting from wiki as source only proves that you have little or worse, no knowledge of the palestinian-israeli for a fruitful discussion. Worse still is that you qoute using one source - Benny Morris. Are educated humans expected to believe that Benny is the arbitar of truth alone?

I suggest that you spend more time in libraries, reading and cross referencing on many other non fiction books freely avaliable for all to conduct researches to find the truth, as well as talk to as many old timers as possible to get a sense of what happened, then critically analyze all info so as to make an informed opinion.

I could list you authors, biblographies but it would only be a futile effort, for your hatred of the jews is so easily sparked that just even half truths are whole truths to you for justification for the genocide of jews.

I normally would have ignored posts of your kind, but it presented an opportunity to once and for all cut your kind's BS.

To understand why the palestinians DID ACTUALLY fled, do allow me to take you back in time, to the early nineteen century.

Palestine was only a province of the brutal Ottoman empire, with sparesly populated arabs and jews. Most of the jews were contend to remain in their holy city of Jerusalem, while some of them settled on the countryside to farm and support them for centuries.

Arabs were bedouins turned civilised by the Ottoman to collect taxes and rents. They too farmed the land but have little ownership to the lands, which were owned by their masters.

By the late 18th century, many russian jewish immigrants returned to palestine, sunk their roots and subjected themselves to the decadent Ottomans by paying high prices for seemingly worthless lands that even arabs would avoid. They worked hard and turned swamps into havens for agricultural crops and civilisation.

However, over time, after much slaughter by the arabs they realized they had to protect their settlements, and were built and defended as forts, defended often to the last man, unlike the arabs who delusively thinks they own all lands and thus have no fortifications.

Unfortunately, greed for power in the then carved up Ottoman caused many arab bedouins to seek empires of their own, such as Saudi Arabia, Trans-Jordan, etc. Mufti Husseni is another greed filled thief whom sought for Caliphate. There is no smoke without fire, Jerusalem jews would not have been slained by uneducated arabs on their own.

WIth arab greed, came the civil war in 1947 when England pulled out its troops. Palestine Army was made up more of mercenary troops than indigenous people, under leadership by arab fortune seekers.

The first to leave were the palestine elites to Europe. Then fled the upper middle class to Lebanon - british trained doctors,lawyers, engineers and Egyptian salufist clerics, abandoning the poor villages to fend for themselves. The middle class did not exists then.

With the rampaging fake 'palestine army', whom had little funds, stealing crops, arab palestine sons and daughters was the norm. Many palestinians volunteerily left for safer shores.

When independence came for both Israel and Palestine, palestinians trusted their greedy arab brothers who boasts loudly that they will boot the jews to sea within days. Even more palestinian poor ran with the pathetic little they had, as they had no fortifications to protect them unlike the jews, in the belief that within days they will be able to not only return, but take over jewish lands.

It was not to be, for decades. This was what happened. Ask Abbas himself to be honest for once, on why he fled, and you will get the answer as mine.

I take no pleasure in writing this post, as it shatters the myths, illusions and delusions long held by palestinians. I feel for them, as they are only my fellow human brothers and sisters, just as the jews are. But the truth, painful as it is, must be told so that we all can progress and evolve based upon truths and reality,and not upon delusions and misplaced hatred.

reply to post by dontreally


Dont try to sound genuinely concerned. You forget that this is an open forum, everyone who's interested can check out the post history of members and judge for himself.

Really, propaganda is your field of expertise, you're doing it much better than i ever could.

It is clear that you've changed your narrative over time, but you still cast all the blame for the conflict on the sympathy-lacking, nazi-indoctrinated, jew-hating arabs. Your own words.

The main tenets of Hamas ideology are that of radical fanatics, i stated this before, but extremism has two sides.

You've actually conceded this fact a while ago and you've shown your true colors.

Again, your own words.

Judaism is a land centered religion. The entire structure of the religion is around 'the land of Israel" Eretz Yisrael.

What than exactly is Zionism? Secular zionism is undoubtedly an abberation and mockery of the millenia long Jewish desire to return to Israel. It in fact circumvented that religious jewish desire by creating a countering and highly publicized 'zionism' which was backed by rich Jewish bankers and socialist, secular types.

Zionism became synonymous with evil. And Judaisms history and religious identification with that land buried deeply beneath the sordid rubble of secular zionism.

Secular zionism is a deliberate perversion of this original and ancient Jewish destiny and instead bases itself soley on cultural and ethnic considerations. Only "ethnic" Jews can live in Israel. The entire assumption is illopgical.

Why should Jews have to live In Israel in a secular modern world if they share the same attitude and philosophy as everyone else. Thus, even insisting that Jews require their own state based on nothing more than ethnicity is an insulting and inflammatory idea that definitely irks the egalitarian sensitivities of todays people.

"The land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael) is not small at all, if only the Arabs will be removed, and if its frontiers would be enlarged a little; to the north all the way to Litani [River in Lebanon], and to the east including the Golan Heights . . . . while the [Palestinian] Arabs be transferred to northern Syria and Iraq. . . . From now on we must work out a secret plan based on the removal of the [Palestinian] Arabs from here . . . [and] . . . to include it into American political circles. . . . today we have no other alternative. . . . We will not live here with Arabs."

Yosef Weitz, June 22 1941

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


No wiki quotes, history books, as you suggested. Try again. I suggest you click the links and read the books, as they are dissolving the myths you reiterated in the rest of your post.

But the truth, painful as it is, must be told so that we all can progress and evolve based upon truths and reality,and not upon delusions and misplaced hatred.

reply to post by talklikeapirat

There is no need for the insignificant nobody me to try again.

As I mentioned to another post on this thread alone, I have no wish to change anyone's mind, but only to present realities.

I can comprehend the comfort of delusions and lies, understand where you are coming from, but reality is something all mankind will have to face up to one day. Sooner better than latter, as only more innocents will not live if latter.

There are many versions to reality as one perceives it be, sometimes even fantasy as being one of them, but facts are facts, and truth will always prevail. Something happened when the Ottoman Empire cracked, and there were both jews and arabs living in Palestine, which was never a State but only a province of the brutal empire, conquered by England then.

There can be no smoke without fire. And these are the facts which one whom truly seeks for the truth, can derive from and make discoveries upon, no matter how painful it often will be.

I wish you good luck.

Some of you Israeli apologists need to watch this video, it's from 2009, but still very relevant for today, and this thread.




And the evangelical's in this thread make me laugh, you do know that Israeli's are taught from birth you are a lesser species.

Evangelical Christians = blind servant slaves to Zionism.

reply to post by talklikeapirat

The main tenets of Hamas ideology are that of radical fanatics, i stated this before, but extremism has two sides.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you or any of us think about who's the bigger bully when it comes to Israel or Hamas.

The reality is that Muslim extremists which are growing by the day, as you can see in Syria, are forcing "political Islam" throughout the Middle East and they are on their way to Palestine once they accomplish their goals in Syria and Egypt.

The poor little Arabs in Palestine are going to get thrown under the bus either way.

In my opinion, based on review of history, is that the Palestinians are safer under Israeli control than they are under Muslim extremist control.

No amount of sympathy for the Palestinians is going to change the reality of the situation.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by sonnny1

 

If you really back what you said here then by all rights you should feel the same way about Israel as well because they have committed terrorist attacks and then later rewarded the terrorist for it.

I did that already. Both are at blame. Its something that many here on ATS refuse to acknowledge.

I see you play your part well........

You more then likely wouldnt want to compromise if another group came in and took your land either my friend.

Perhaps your looking at things in the wrong light, or perhaps your slightly misinformed.

reply to post by dontreally



Lets get little bit more thinking on this site please

EVEN IF Mossad had nothing to do with direct creation of Hamas

Mossad and Israel INDIRECTLY created Hamas by occupying and
erasing Palestinians.

Hamas is the collective ANGER created by occupation.

You treat people right, and they become more civilized, just like a dog.
If you pet your dog and feed him, he is your friend,
If you beat him, one day he will bite your A$$ off.

End of discussion.

Originally posted by mamabeth
.... I am a christian supporter of Israel and her God given rights
to the land!
.

these Christians also supported Israel

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by intrepid

 

So CNN, Jerusalem Post, Haaeretz, the boston globe....all state propaganda? No such thing as a free press?

Right. Even in the States the MSM is merely the PR arm of the government.

There are fundamental differences, intrepid, between the Jerusalem Post and the filth on Hamas' TV.

That's YOUR bias. Same crap spouted both ways imo. Lies and propaganda are lies and propaganda no matter what it's clothed up in. A pig in a dress is still a pig.

The difference is that I can look at whatever news I want. Western leaders are not demanding the destruction of the Palestinians. They do not call to drive them into the sea. They do not claim they will never be for peace. Is there a spin? Of course. Bias is everywhere. The level if bias is clearly different. If you refuse to see that, that is YOUR bias.

What Western media constantly calls for the destruction of the Palestinian state and all the land given to Israel? Thanks, I will await your answer to that question.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by intrepid

 

So, what is your agenda? To continue to stay off topic and derail this thread so you don't have to admit your own biases that support Muslim extremists?

Whats the go with playing the Muslim Extremist card? Its just as bad as the Holocaust. Check out whats happening next door in Syria and tell me whos supporting Muslim Extremists. Because we are paying them, does that mean they have a get out jail free card to kill who ever they choose? Why treat Hamas any different?

reply to post by DarknStormy

Indeed, when the civil war in Syria was only gaining momentum, Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia were said to be granting all sorts of assistance to the Syrian opposition forces, from supplying with arms to training troops. The US and several other nations, on the other hand, reportedly had intelligence staff on the ground trying to orchestrate the uprising.

But as soon as it became clear that the revolution in the Arab country was attracting radical and terrorist elements from the entire region, the thrill around the pro-democracy movement in Syria somewhat cooled down and official support was refocused to humanitarian needs. US officials now say that private smuggling and arms procurement networks are the main channels for the Syrian rebels to get their arms supplies.

rt.com...

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I started to take you seriously until your bias to the Jews leaped out, it seems you don't know your history well and think European Jews had a right to enter Palestine borders because they where Jews.

Originally posted by chishuppu
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

I started to take you seriously until your bias to the Jews leaped out, it seems you don't know your history well and think European Jews had a right to enter Palestine borders because they where Jews.

Funny, since DNA testing shows the "European" Jews have their roots in the Middle East.