Hamas Can Never be a Peace Partner

This thread is dedicated to those credulous believers who think Hamas has "evolved" into a potential peace partner.

GAZA - Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, making his first ever visit to the Gaza Strip, vowed on Saturday never to recognize Israel and said his Islamist group would never abandon its claim to all Israeli territory.

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he told a sea of supporters at an open-air rally marking the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas and a celebration of the organization's "victory" over Israel.

If this doesn't make you shut up and retract your opinion, I don't know what will. Not only does the Hamas charter promote a religious hatred of Jews, not only does Hamas' Al Quds TV (which is a state propaganda device) train its citizens to hate Jews, but they say over and over again in mass rallies: NO TO PEACE! NO TO COMPROMISE!

In short, NO TO HAMAS!!!

They are an impossible candidate to make peace with Israel. Their religious fanaticism forbids it.

As I've said time and again, a utilitarian rationalism appears to be a necessary underpinning for political pragmatism. A religious politics is informed by religion: not utilitarianism. It is not led into true compromise for the sake of peace, but rather, uses peace to advance it's religious interests. This is called a "hudna" or a truce, in Islamic parlance. Not a permanent solution, but a breather, a time period in which the weakened Muslim group can regather itself for another round.

"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."

Laying out his hopes for future triumphant visits, Mashaal told cheering crowds, "Today is Gaza. Tomorrow will be Ramallah and after that Jerusalem, then Haifa and Jaffa," Ma'an News Agency reported.

Link

I'm open to suggestions. What is Israel to do about Hamas?

Yeah yeah blah blah blah ! Heard it all before mate. Constantly repeated the world over from Irish Loyalists and nationalists to the Sunnis and Shias. Some poeple will never meet on common ground, see eye to eye or agree to disagree. These disputes are mainly due to fundamental religious differences.

Frankly... no, Intolerably.. I am bored, sick to the back teeth of it. Bottom line is us .. humans.. human nature. There will always be a rebellious group opposed to 'oppression' or victims of 'victimisation'! Wherever, whoever and whatever the country, religion or weather. We will never all live together and 'get along'. That is a FACT.

I invite anybody to prove me wrong, even if this post is framed and passed down the generations of the hypocritical, spiteful and selfish human race. I'm recording this post.

Agreed Hamas is loathsome, but so is Netanyahu Likud party.

Both have right wing extremist Idologies.

Both the rulling government in Israel as well as in Palestine must be removed and replaced with proper moderate governments that actually represent the people of both nations.

Israel should work with the opposition party in Palestine to strenghten it's position that's the only thing I can see that would help them.

~Tenth

reply to post by dontreally

This thread is dedicated to those credulous believers who think Hamas has "evolved" into a potential peace partner.

well, i certainly am not one of them, and actually agree with the TITLE of the OP
not the spin you're giving it.

because:

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad
globalresearch.ca...

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas -
online.wsj.com...


Ron Paul - Israel Created Hamas 01-09-09 - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3vF6Vcjr0


Mossad Created Hamas”A Story You Must Read, with photos”
[ Just like the CIA Created Al-Qaeda, the Mossad Created Hamas]
______beforeitsnews/israel/2012/07/mossad-created-hamasa-story-you-must-read-with-photos-2387777.html


enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com...

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Agree.





Lets give them all instruments.

Seriously.

Israel can never be a peace partner. What bunch of baboons decide to start building more settlements straight after Palestinians are given observer status at the UN? Israel are a bunch of idiots.

reply to post by sonnny1


Thank you for posting this.




And give them a place to live, an identity, dignity, hope, freedom.

Seriously

the freedom theatre

reply to post by snapperski

Agreed Hamas is loathsome, but so is Netanyahu Likud party. Both have right wing extremist Idologies.

Don't you think it's Hamas' extremism and the likelihood of them winning a majority in a new Palestinian state that motivates Likud's refusal to stop building settlements?

Think of it from both sides. This isn't a game. If Israel plays by Hamas' rules, that could turn into a second holocaust for them.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


This will never happen and you know it. Humanity is rarely proactive, almost always reactive. Therefore, it will take a devastating tragedy to force change in the region. The same is true in most areas of our civilization. We will bring about worldwide disaster, which will force us to change...even though we know we are headed for one and could stop it. This conflict is a microcosm of our shortsightedness as a species

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Both the rulling government in Israel as well as in Palestine must be removed and replaced with proper moderate governments that actually represent the people of both nations.

But that's not about to happen, is it? The people have a right to "democratically" vote in whomever they want. If Egypt, Morocco and Tunisia can vote in Islamist's pushing Shari'a law, than certainly a conservative, liberal democratic Likud government should not "be removed and replaced by moderate governments".

Before you speak, understand that Israel exists in an extremely immoderate environment. I loathe the thinking of those people who think middle eastern politics can be simplified to "be moderate". Political decisions have major consequences. If Hamas - which commits itself to destroying Israel - was democratically elected in a new Palestinian state, what would that mean for Israel's Jews?

I can COMPLETELY and UTTERLY understand the difficulties this causes for Israel's ruling elite. It's not an easy matter by any means. The sheer injustice of Hamas' program - which is simply an Islamist program backed by it's chameleon backer, the Muslim Brotherhood, a program which could result in a second holocaust, one in which Jews once again naively trust the goodness of mankind (as they mistakenly did with Hitler) by agreeing to a 2 state solution, although one party involved in the 2 state solution adamantly insists that it wont ever agree to Israel's existence (thus obviating their claim that 'occupation' in the west bank or Palestinian suffering is the problem, as opposed to their stone age religious obligation to never let Jews possess any self determination in their spiritual homeland) and actually intends to destroy them. I can understand why they would rather fight to the death, as opposed to just being bulldozed into the ocean.

Israel should work with the opposition party in Palestine to strenghten it's position that's the only thing I can see that would help them.

That's the thing. It's hard to know which way is better for them. The PA already has very small support. They represent only 60% of Palestinians, and even in the west bank their appears to be a growing support base for Hamas. Since Hamas has already established a precedent by being elected in Gaza, and Egypt oversaw a "peace pact" between Hamas and Fatah in 2011, there's a very good chance that this moral monstrosity of a movement would not only get elected, but would make good on their threats.

Seekeroftruth101 believes International law would constrain their actions. I fear that wouldn't be enough. If, lets say, 15 years from now, Islamists rule in most of the countries of the greater middle east, whats to stave off their hand? I don't believe they care. I don't believe Islamists subordinate their wacky religious beliefs to pragmatism. Rather, and there's significant evidence from their own historical jurisprudence, I feel it's far more likely that they are merely cooperating with a foreign system until they secure enough power to act independently from it. In which case, once they act, once they pounce on the Jews, they'll be seen as enemies of mankind.

On the other hand, there's those who believe Hamas, or Islamists, would never have the immunity, even within their own systems, to effect their designs against Israel.

Take Egypt, for example. Mursi tried to get away with claiming dictatorial powers. He severely miscalculated the response from the masses.

It's a gamble either way. All I ask for people to understand is not to treat Israel as if it were an enemy of mankind. Israel has always been reacting to Arab threats. Their reaction determines their policy. The conservatives are still traumatized by the holocaust, firmly believing that there are people who wouldn't mind too much to see Islamists kill them all. Those on the left are more optimistic, or, naive, depending on your viewpoint.

There's never been true peace in that region. Hamas is just a new face on the same person.

War plagues it. Look at the history.

Why should there be peace? They've never known peace for any real length of time.

They know war. So that's what they do.

Hamas should die, but I wouldn't spit on their grave. It's like blowback. There's so much ignorance over there, but people don't know it and they use it to fuel their hatred. Nor would I kiss the feet of Israel. They don't deserve it. Honestly, I don't like any of it, but it's history and it's there and we have to put up with it somehow. War and conflict and ignorance will always exist.

When jesus said "Forgive them, they know not what they do." it was the summation of his life. I believe no truer words were ever written before or since. This is a keeper.

Not only does the Hamas charter promote a religious hatred of Jews

From what I understand, that is not true. Hamas believes in retaining what land was given to the Palestinians after the UN booted them in the 40's.

Can we blame them for fighting against what they believe to be a tyrannical takeover of their land? Do we not strive to battle the same tyranny in our own nations?

When we toss around the words Islamist or anti-Jewish rhetoric, it strips the context and impact of an otherwise legitimate situation.

ETA: I never read a thing about anti-Jewish sentiment in the link. It was only against the government of Israel.

reply to post by dontreally


Screw Israel. They are only gettin back what they dished out in the past. Unfortunetly, what goes around comes around and I really couldn't care if they are worried about another holocaust. The pricks who control Israel today most likely helped the NAZIs. Until that regime is gone, Israel will always be threatened and attacked. How many members of the Zionist movement died in the Holocaust? I bet none.

It could be compared to US politicians starting wars in the middle east.. Of course they wouldn't send their own sons but your son fits the job description perfect. Zionists need to go. The Jews fromthe Holocaust were Zionist pawns and I hope that movement finds a perfect corner in hell.

reply to post by talklikeapirat


So no comment on Hamas?

Originally posted by sheepslayer247


Can we blame them for fighting against what they believe to be a tyrannical takeover of their land?

Yes.

The Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing was a Palestinian terrorist attack on a pizzeria in downtown Jerusalem, Israel, on 9 August 2001, in which 15 civilians were killed, including 7 children and a pregnant woman, and 130 wounded.

Hamas and the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Do we not strive to battle the same tyranny in our own nations?

Strive is one thing.

Reenacting suicide bombings is another. This isn't resistance.

Example:

The exhibit at Al Najah University, the largest in the West Bank, has outraged Israelis since it opened on Sunday. The most contentious section is a mock-up of the Sbarro restaurant in Jerusalem where 15 people were killed in a suicide attack in August including not only gnawed pizza crusts but bloody plastic body parts suspended from the ceiling as if they were blasting through the air.

Created by a student faction of Hamas, the radical Islamic group that claimed responsibility for the Sbarro attack, the exhibit by definition portrays an extreme view. It marks the one year anniversary of the so-called second intifada, when Palestinians declared the peace talks dead and renewed fighting. Israelis contend that it was Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, who walked away from the peace deal brokered last year by President Clinton.

An Exhibit on Campus Celebrates Grisly Deed

There is no victory in this.

As the suffering continues, There are those who refuse to become victims. There are those that continue to peacefully "fight" on both sides. I hope they are the winners.

reply to post by dontreally


I am a christian supporter of Israel and her God given rights
to the land!
I am also not politically correct and must refrain from posting
my opinions of islam and hamas.

reply to post by sonnny1


That is a horrible story and I cannot attempt to justify it, as I do not know the complete story or context of the incident.

I will say that I feel for the Palestinians because they were given land in the UN deal and now Israel is encroaching on the very land that we can logically consider theirs!

When do we, as people that should believe in the rights of property owners, begin to comprehend the reasoning behind the extreme actions of those that feel their lawfully-given land is being taken over?

The real important question is......what would you do in the same situation?

Originally posted by sheepslayer247


That is a horrible story and I cannot attempt to justify it, as I do not know the complete story or context of the incident.

Its a sad story, as there are many others in that region. Israeli or Palestinian. When children die, its even more painful. When children are taught hate, on both sides, its criminal. I think if you read the story, you would think twice about Hamas.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I will say that I feel for the Palestinians because they were given land in the UN deal and now Israel is encroaching on the very land that we can logically consider theirs!

I am Hoping Hamas is held accountable by the very ones that are legitimizing the Palestinians.I say that, because it legitimizes Hamas. I find it hypocritical though on two fronts. Most of the EU has Hamas as a terrorist organization. Second, There is blood on EVERYONE'S hands.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
When do we, as people that should believe in the rights of property owners, begin to comprehend the reasoning behind the extreme actions of those that feel their lawfully-given land is being taken over?

Killing yourself, and innocent victims does nothing for a cause.
Nothing.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
The real important question is......what would you do in the same situation?

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Hamas Can Never be a Peace Partner

As much as Israel is never going to be none greedy occupier.

How much land does Israel need ?

Despite their little population , they have occupied more land than they need.

Maybe you wanted to play your good old victim card once again , Israel ?

As long as there are stupid naive people , wolves can rule them.