WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.

Only thermobaric explosives do show all those observed physical effects.
Instantly sheared off truss seats at both ends of those floor trusses, caused by concurrently blowing up (expanding in all directions) all the lower floor spaces in a well calculated cadence.

And the observed initial inward bowing was caused by the destruction of a portion of the 47 interior core columns (see the North Tower's radio/TV/telephone mast sinking in the first seconds of its collapse), causing the above 47 core columns packet to sink a few meters down, pulling all the floor-trusses seats connected to their interior sides downwards with them and thus puling the other exterior side of those trusses and their truss seats with them down and inwards, until the exterior columns truss seats on these Vierendeel triplets snapped.
Then, these triplet columns snapped back and now that these truss seats at all exterior walls were sheared off, the upper top floors building section then started to sink down.

Then the main part of the demolition was initiated, the radio signals to the planted other TB's in the lower floors and the lower parts of the 47 core columns were send.
The downward explosive-cutting started then the main collapse of all interior core columns, and the office floors TB's were set off in cadence with that core-cutting, blowing all exterior triplet column packets outwards, floor by floor.
Until that sequence reached the last pack of TB's, and most of the debris was packed together in the huge and deep basements, while the rest ended up as a seemingly low pile of rubble on top of the compacted coarse and fine rubble in the basements.

CLICK this link to see the full WTC 7 seismogram with my remarks about what really happened before, when, and after Mr Cianca took his snapshot of the WTC 7 building forming the first visual dent in the roof of the eastern penthouse which covered all kinds of air-conditioning equipment and other machinery, especially the elevator shaft's winches and electro motors.
Again, like in the Twin Towers, these shafts were used to place TB (thermobaric) charges and then demolish also WTC 7.





About 2 seconds before Mr Cianca took that famous penthouse denting-photograph, we can hear that low frequency, enormous rumbling sound in the video I posted before, which sound must have been so much louder than the many seconds later following total collapse of WTC 7. Because the internal collapsing sounds and that peculiar sliding down of all perimeters of that huge 47 stories high building was not picked up by the same video camera.

www.youtube.com...



More information and videos about WTC 7 explosions

That huge rumbling sound 2 secs before the first dent was photographed by Mr Cianca, was probably picked up by that cameras microphone via its tripod standing on the earth.
Sound through air propagates at 333 m/s, while through earth in Manhattan at about 2000 m/s.
That camera stood about 1 km (1000 m) from WTC 7.

And explosions coupled to the earth via steel columns cause a much wider movement (amplitude) of a seismograph's needle than a gravitational collapse.
See for that explanation, my earlier links to Prof Brown"s measurements in 1995 at the controlled demolition of the left-over remains of the Murray building in Oklahoma City. Every ignition of every demolition charge gave a far bigger amplitude (out-swing) of his seismograph's needle, than the following global collapse of those remains.

The first seconds of that global WTC 7 collapse looked like a fully intact pile-driver sinking into the earth.
If that what followed after the Cianca dent-photograph would have been all caused by natural gravitational forces, that above seismogram would have shown progressively growing amplitudes all the time during pre-collapse and most of the global collapse their follow-on seconds.

It did not.
It shows one pack of huge amplitude peaks a few seconds before that eastern penthouse showed any signs of movement in the available videos of the event or Mr Cianca's photo, than a few seconds pause and then shows the much smaller pack of amplitude peaks, depicting the whole, following GRAVITATIONAL total collapse of WTC 7.

And at that global collapse start, we see a period of 2.3 seconds real free fall.....9.8 m/s>2 acceleration.
See my already posted links here in this thread to David Chandler's videos about his free-fall period find.

Which free fall period clearly shows that a few floors (8) worth of steel columns and cross-beams were blown away.
That is the ONLY sane explanation to explain WHY those 2.3 seconds of true free fall existed.
They can only exist when 8 stories worth of thick steel columns and cross-beams resistance inside WTC 7 were "removed" from the global collapse equations.



In the following 8.2 seconds after Mr Cianca took his photograph, first that penthouse sunk over its full length into the WTC 7 roof, followed by the toppling to the east of the western penthouse that then also sunk into the WTC 7 roof area. And then the real global collapse/sinking of the whole roof and building started.



Remember that Mr Cianca's Eastern penthouse dent-photo was time-stamped by NIST via their own atomic clock measurements by their staff, and the seismologists at LDEO (34 km further away) used that same NIST atomic clock to time-stamp their seismograms of the events in Manhattan on 9.11.2001 (September 11, 2001).

CLICK this link to Dr Rousseau's thesis that "all the documented evidence points to explosions as the source of the recorded seismic signals."



This is the best evidence told by a firefighter in his hospital bed, that he was engulfed by the chemical cloud of a Thermobaric explosive, just before its second ignition charge was ignited, that blew him out on the pavement, his clothes on fire. He was lucky to be on the outer boundary of that cloud, inside a revolving door.

Lucky me. I found back Prof Raymond Brown"s remarks about the effect of explosions on seismograms, compared to global building collapses :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Even the smallest of those detonations (from the May 23rd demolition of the REMAINS of the Murrah building) had a larger effect on the recording than the collapse of the building," he added, "which demonstrates that the explosives are much more efficient at exciting the ground motion than is the collapse of three-fourths of the building. So it is very unlikely that one-fourth of the building falling on April 19th could have created an energy wave similar to that caused by the large [truck-bomb] explosion."[75]

ATS-Search results for the words "LaBTop thermobaric"

This page 3 of that thread holds a lot of other interesting stuff on that subject :
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread326450/pg3

Btw, after studying all the WTC nuclear demolition options here and elsewhere, my conclusion is that such a scenario is totally impossible.
Even an underground explosion which could possibly contain the radiation first, would leak through cracks in the bedrock humongous amounts of radiation into the open air, killing hordes of people within hours.
Plus, we saw initiation of collapses in the Twin Towers around the plane impact areas, high up, so how on earth could a tactical nuclear explosive, buried deep in the bedrock under those towers, ever have that effect.
As can be seen in videos showing underground nuclear explosions, the ground bulges in and cracks immensely, about 12 seconds after ignition. That's the time that the underground explosion hole compacts in on itself.

Some of the, in my opinion most important posts pro & contra in this 53 pages long thread are as follows :

Page 21 by smurfy :

New York Times 2002 : The stubs of brackets that once held up floors still protrude from what had been the interior surface of the columns.
--snip--
The steel column identified last Wednesday by Ms. Bonilla, with its brackets, bolts and two pairs of winglike steel plates still attached, is a potentially critical discovery. It ran three stories from the 98th to the 101st floor on the exterior face of one tower, just above the zones struck by jets laden with fuel. Now that it has been found -- and spray-painted with the word ''Save'' in florescent orange paint -- tests can be conducted to determine whether heat or stress or some design or material flaw might have let it fail.

Another crumpled steel member set aside at Keasbey, N.J., scrapyard has markings clearly showing that it ran on the east face of the North tower from the 92nd to the 95th floor, in the center of one impact zone. Pieces of steel have also been found that were apparently melted and vaporized not solely because of the heat of fires, but also because of a corrosive contaminant that was somehow released in the conflagrations. And unexpectedly cracked washers in crucial connections in the towers are being closely scrutinized.
--snip--
Much of the effort is focused on trying to find steel that was at or above the floors rammed by the hijacked jets. The towers collapsed from the top down and the fires were concentrated in these areas, so the presumption is that the answer to why they fell down should be found by examining the steel from these spots.

To me that indicates a sudden huge horizontal force, an overpressure, tearing partly apart in the horizontal plain these brackets, that held up the floors their underlaying trusses, one stub of these brackets still attached to their welded seats on exterior columns, which are part of the Vierendeel exterior columns triplets. Thus, not a weld failure by an impact from above like a failing floor from above, but some other HORIZONTAL force, that sheared the flat horizontal metal of these brackets apart.

Another piece of steel recently discovered has a series of steel washers that are cracked.

The same sudden immense overpressure of a TB will have had that effect on washers in between bolted together, steel parts.


I'll now add two photos of the tower collapses :
Original photo of the South Tower torsion collapse of its top, 373pixels x 336pixels : cnparm.home.texas.net...



Click this above bigger picture link to observe the angled and torsion collapse of the South Tower's top portion above the plane-impacted floors.

Original High Definition photo of mid-time collapse of the North Tower, with those huge packs of Vierendeel exterior column triplets still attached to each-other, 990pixels x 1.488pixels :

Click this above huge HD picture link, and enlarge it even more ( press 7x [Ctrl][+] ) to view those truss seats still connected to the back of that Vierendeel exterior columns packet on the far-right-bottom side of that picture. (The whitish arrow ( < -- ) shaped fork directly to the left of that detached square piece of an exterior plate near the far right border side of that picture.)

The trident-fork shaped broken-off truss part, that held up a floor plate, is still attached. And even those front parts of two floor trusses still connected to them, broken off at about two meter distance from those seats.
And the trident-fork shaped broken-off truss part still attached to that steel column is exactly that part that was identified by Ms. Bonilla on that WTC steel scrapyard, with two pairs of winglike steel plates still attached to the brackets on the exterior column.



Enlarged and circled :
files.abovetopsecret.com...




Only heavy thermobaric charges have that blow-up/balloon-inflating effect on a whole open floor and its ceiling space. Since it is a gaseous explosion that also uses the oxygen part of the air that is present and mixed-in. The air and the gaseous chemicals first get thoroughly mixed by the first ignition charge into a brownish or colorless powdered mixture.

Imagine for a moment three floors of a WTC Tower, just under the lowest plane impact floor, loaded with TB's in the 3 ceiling spaces. And at least one per exterior face side ceiling.
But probably more per ceiling per side.

At radiographic ignition, that whole ceiling space fills up with a brownish chemical dust cloud and then, that fully expanded electro-statically loaded dust cloud, (loaded as a result of the expanding gases, pressurized piezoelectric bottom gadget) gets ignited by a very small secondary explosive device (f.ex. RDX), resulting in an enormous instantaneous vertical and horizontal expansion that pushes all the remaining air in front of it, thereby instantaneously blowing whole packets of exterior column Vierendeel triplets off their truss seats and simultaneously crushing and shattering all floor panels with its metal plates and its 4 inches of concrete floor-plates on top of them, into fine dust and tiny steel shrapnel.

All concrete in the floors under and above the TB explosions got crushed to fine dust, and all the metal floor plates where the concrete was laid on, shattered all to fine pieces.
The shattering and pulverization effect of the exploding TB's gets doubled as a result of those TB explosions their vertical force compounds meeting each-other above and below the floor panels.

The planners must have optioned for TB's to blow up the floor spaces for a few important reasons :

1. No explosive traces left to be found, nearly all traces dissipate as gases into the surrounding air, and get blown away by the wind.
2. For the investigators looking at the metal and dust debris heaps, it looks as if a natural gravitational force has sheared apart all those beams and columns. ( The total absence of any full or partial steel floor-plates with some concrete still attached should have ringed lots of alarm bells in conscious aftermath investigators).
3. Radiographic ignited TB's are very easy and quick to place. They do not look at all as an explosive device. Any innocent looking form can be chosen.
4. They are also very simple to install on and to connect to a master demolition board. The software for the ignition progress is very simple and reliable. Choices for which floor to start the demolition on are possible on the fly, up to a few minutes before blast zero.
5. TB's for the Twin Towers and WTC 7 could have been camouflaged f.ex. as end pipes for air-conditioning ducts in the ceilings. And installed a long time before as part of normal looking maintenance schedules.
6. TB's or cutter charges to cut the main core columns could have been placed easily as part of the elevators reconstructions taking place in the many months before 9/11.
7. The biggest advantage : The use of minimal amounts of explosive charges, coupled with incredible devastation.
8. No wiring needed at all, just radio signals receivers and some senders.

The resulting debris looks for the not so critical investigator as a result of a gravitational collapse, no specially cut exterior columns, just blown away packets of them, that looks as if they were dislodged after an initial massive failure by weakened steel parts.

The problem for that lays in the fully blown out exterior columns and panels, under the plane impact areas. At all 4 sides simultaneously. Accompanied by WHITE dust clouds, while it should have been black by the mix-in with all the black soot inside the still burning building.

And all the lower floors should have shown totally twisted and deformed exterior columns, caused by a normal gravitational collapse sequence.
However, nearly 90 % of all exterior columns were still easily recognizable as Vierendeel triplets, or packs of them still connected together.

Page 22 by impressme :

Source : www.sealane.org...

Physics Principles Known for Centuries (by Dr Crockett Grabbe)

1. E and p=mv are conserved

a. If buildings collapse from fires -> only gravitational E available

b. Most could fall in 1.5 secs from s = 0.5gt2 = 36 ft (g=32
ft/s2 on Earth)

c. S Tower observed to fall ~ 140 ft in < 1.5 s!
F ~ 4 X as large observed. Acceleration > g!

d. Calculations have repeatedly shown > 10X amount of E used in falls

e. g cannot produce sizable horizontal E used. What is the source?

f. How conservation of p is satisfied for S Tower squibs?
-- Total p in horizontal motion must balance.
-- Squibs observed require counter-squibs or at least counter F

g. Only explosion is consistent with observations

h. If explosion, tremendous F from follow-up implosion from gradient of P


2. Have no Energy available in gravitational free-fall

a. Must have Resistance to fall from free-fall speed to do Work.

b. Amount of work is E required to overcome that Resistance.


Major Evidence : Explosive Demolition of World Trade Center :
www.sealane.org...

Squib Dynamics :
www.sealane.org...


Conclusions
www.sealane.org...

Dramatic examples of WTC explosions :

-- The almost free-fall and symmetrical collapses, and rapidly expanding huge concrete dust clouds from the towers. (Fires are very asymmetrical.)

-- very-quick appearance of multiple squibs on all 3 collapsing buildings,

-- the blow-off of large (up to 6 story, >4000 sq ft) pieces of the N WTC wall, or 34 stories of top S Tower, which were destroyed in mid-air.

-- the massive spread of pieces for up to a mile, and of fire-retardant dust for 100s of feet everywhere.

-- the rammed destruction of >1000 autos for a number of blocks all-around the WTC from material of these squibs.

-- the major sources of all the p and E in horizontal directions for the squibs, massive blow-off & spread of flying pieces far & wide, creating the destruction of >1000 autos, and huge rolling dust clouds.

-- the appearance of both horizontal and vertical forces which are several times the strength of gravity, the only force acting in natural fire collapse

-- the very high-temperature metal (up to 2000o F), liquid metal (2850o F) observed flowing in pools in the wreckage, which cannot be produced by fires.

-- the massive "war-zone" appearance of the WTC after 911

-- the fact that no steel high-rise has ever collapsed before from fires

-- the discovery of nano-thermite, a modern explosive prevalent throughout the rubble and evidence for it melting iron -- the smoking bomb

Prof Kuttler's WTC 1 (North Tower) collapse time Calculations :

I will focus mostly on the floors in this paper and will not attempt to show the building should not have fallen but that it fell surprisingly fast. These arguments are based on assumptions involving the relative mass of the concrete to the steel in the floors of the building and the claim that the concrete of the floors was essentially all crushed to dust.

--snip--
LOTS and lots and lots of calculations, for those who are extremely fond of those, and then,
--snip--

2.6 Summary
There are two observations about the collapse of WTC1 which are difficult to harmonize in the context of the official explanation. One is the time with which the collapse took place and the other is the production of large clouds of dust which are seen forming during the entire collapse in the videos of the falling building.
The majority of the paper has explored this difficulty by totally ignoring the columns and any resistance they produced. The considerations were based on the need for energy to crush the concrete and momentum conservation. However, if one ignores energy needed to crush the concrete, a reasonable estimate using resistance of the columns also produces surprisingly long times to collapse.

And last but not least 22 online reference articles.

Explanation of the inner workings of a thermobaric bomb charge (Re-post since now Totse.com exists no more) :

Now posted at Zoklet.net, CLICK this link.

[ EDIT : ZOKLET link does not work via ATS because in the link is a slang word for 'making-love' , so the automatic ATS "tutor" removes it and thus the link does not work via ATS, but does if copied into a new browser tab.
Here is another cached link that does work :
911research.wtc7.net... ]

And below a very long but scaring explanation of how the CIA and other agencies work to cover their mishaps and misdoings.
They seem to work in decades periods, not at all for the long term, where the Russian Intelligence services are so famous for, and the Chinese and Japanese ones really excel in.

Just search in these 2 huge files for the word" Riconosciuto ", to understand how utterly important it still is for the Intelligence services of the world to keep the lid on the thermobaric explosives.
They are too easy to hide and use, with no evidence trail left behind :

www.lostartsmedia.com...

a reply to: LaBTop

OBSERVE were the plane impacted in relation to the collapse, observe the fact that the tower struck second but lower down fell first (larger load above impact area) observe the fact that when it comes to the dust cloud people who think it was explosives FORGET that it's not just concrete in the building that produced dust.

Just a few things to look at off to work now will be on later

a reply to: wmd_2008

two 116 story towers received different impact damage with different vertical support at different points with vastly different weights above.....yet we see the SAME global unified CONSISTENT unwavering descent...despite these extreme differences.....we see no stopping and starting from the laws of mechanics, conservation of momentum, transference of energy, Newtons 2nd, 3rd. law, known structural failure behavior....once they started, ALL 3 of the the collapses were non-stop, symmetrical, and complete.

the second impact all but missed the core......and the 2005 NIST scientific investigation bestowed by an Act of Congress found minimal localized damage by each impact to each tower....we can count the damaged perimeter columns in any pic, 33 out of 236 comes out to about 14% structural damage ...2005 NIST estimated that 6-8 core columns were damaged using their three scenarios of core damage...they say 6-8 columns, I chose the middle, 7.....7 out of 47 comes out to 15% of the core columns were damaged leaving 85% of the core columns intact and undamaged.

any way you look at it, the towers received MINIMAL localized damage to each.....with 240 intact fireproofed vertical support that must simultaneously fail to have occur what we all see.

yes, I say 'fireproofed' because the 2005 NIST scientific investigation found the only fireproofing that could be 'compromised', was on the columns INVOLVED with impact damage....the 14.5%, not the remaining 240 left in EACH tower that must fail.

NIST 1-6A Appendix C Passive Fire Protection p.274..."within the debris fields created by the aircraft impact into WTC 1 &2...thermal insulation was damaged and dislodged"

and the dust cloud is not explosives....it was created by explosives.

and absolutely NO supporting evidence the FIRES PRESENT allowed the collapses to ensue....x3

a reply to: hgfbob

and absolutely NO supporting evidence the FIRES PRESENT allowed the collapses to ensue....x3

And yet you can't get one engineering company on the entire planet to agree with you.
That qualifies as dilusional.

a reply to: samkent

And yet you can't get one engineering company on the entire planet to agree with you.

I don't have to, it's in the OFFICIAL REPORT stating so...the 2005 10,000+ page result of the NIST scientific investigation with their 200 volunteers whom did NOT find a scientific reason for collapse x3.

you are more then welcome to post the section and volume where it states to the contrary....a 'cover-sheet' or preface page stating..'this report describes how planes and fire fell the WTC buildings'...doesn't mean sh*t unless there is SCIENCE to back it up....so words inserted AFTER the science was completed, does not have validity either unless there is science to support, again, 2005 NIST found minimal damage from impacts and NO reason why FIRE might have done this shown within the 2005 report.....and since the 2008 NIST are the ONLY authors of those official claims pushed, they are the only ones whom can prove them through the validation, verification, PEER REVIEW of the science.....but alas, they REFUSE.

That qualifies as dilusional.

wanna hear something even more delusional.......presenting any so-called peer reviews paper 'supporting' the official story when the official story itself REFUSES TO RELEASE the 68,000+ files of data variables OF the official story...[shakes head]

peer review is about 'replication' how does one 'replicate' when they HIDE the data that TELLS their only evidence what to do...how to act.....

ATS member Tom Bedlam came i.m.h.op. with a possibly reasonable explanation for the crazy long burning hot spots (nearly 3 months! ), buried deep in the basements in the WTC 1, 2 and 7 debris piles.
These were registered by the USGS and by NASA airplanes flying slowly over the debris piles at intervals.

My problem with his theory is the source of such amounts of aluminum. Those huge amounts of ALU-cladding exterior column plates were mostly deflected away from the buildings, some as far as 300 meters.

So, which (already, or later melted) aluminum source could have been present in the 3 WTC-basements which were full of compressed core debris?

Parked cars? Aluminum engine blocks?
The two aluminum airplanes?

300 Tons of a lot of aluminum plane mixtures each, but those should have ended up on top of the two deep basements debris heaps, with only a small part of the above floors their beams and columns on it, since most of those were exploded outwards.

Anyway, WHY did we never hear or see ANYTHING of those 2 airplane wreckages photographed on top of the two WTC 1 and 2 debris heaps? Were they so totally burned-up already in the 1 and 1.5 hrs burn times before each of the 2 WTC-collapses?

But what about WTC7 then with no airplane present?

And it also depends on Gallium or Mercury traces mixed in with an alleged deeply buried aluminum melt that then releases burning Hydrogen gas for 3 months.

I can imagine however, the Path train tunnels to have been delivering the necessary Oxygen for these 3 month-long deep basements fires at WTC 2 and 1.
But not for WTC 7. However, that was the first debris heap to be hurried away, so, small chance to burn so long.

Possible WTC Nuked -Thread and the interesting posts on page 16 by Tom Bedlam, that page is worth reading in totality, especially for those who still believe in a nuke theory. He had an interesting debate with member Gottago about the nuke subject.

The best quotes from both in that discussion :

Tom Bedlam : In this case, there were a lot of burnable organics as well as whatever jet fuel may have made it down. And if you have molten aluminum in there to start with, then you can get a hydration reaction that provides tons of heat for a long time, especially if you're trying to wet it down. That works lots better if there's some gallium and/or mercury in it. That would do the trick, if it were true. Which is why I asked if anyone knew how much metal there was and what was in it. Again, it's way different if it's a pool an inch deep than 10 feet. I don't know, personally, how much there was.

(edit: I said hydration but it's actually an oxidation reaction that emits heat as the aluminum turns back into alumina, then releases hydrogen which burns. So you get a lot of heat for a long time. The gallium and/or mercury is there to prevent the molten aluminum from assuming a stable surface configuration. It's sort of like LMET only it works in molten metals to make them burn for a long time and very difficult to put out. If it's got air or water it's going to burn either way).
--snip--

Gottago : No I don't buy exit signs and watch faces for the levels recorded. They were pumping millions of gallons water into the site for over a week before they took the measurements on the 21st, and they were really off the charts in percentage terms. Normal background levels of 0.12 and 3.53 in the highest sample from WTC6, which wasn't even "directly" involved. How'd all those exit signs manage to fall into the sub-basement of WTC 6 for chrissakes?

Oh, they don't need to, just rupture and burn. That forms tritiated water, which ends up in the basement. Easy, peasy.

And like I say, your typical nuke doesn't have direct tritium in it, you'd have to liquefy it which is a pain in the tukhas, which just adds to your misery with the nuke conjecture. (edit: other than for boost gas in the primary and in the initiator which do use tritium - but not in the secondary)

Modern secondaries make their own by fissioning Li6 (LT/ : Lithium 6). But they don't leave a huge amount laying around afterwards.

Gottago : And well, doesn't all that tritium --and molten metal swamps being hosed down for over a month-- simply tell you you've just had a fusion hydrogen nuke go off? of whatever new/exotic flavor? What else can bring about these results?

Well, no. Like I said, having a lot of leftover tritium might be a sign of a heavily boosted fission primary, especially if it fizzled, but that obviously didn't happen. And you don't need any for WITW's antimatter wild-hare. And a modern secondary makes it out of Li6 on the spot, which is a lot easier to keep around than liquid tritium. And you'd be finding deuterated water as well - and in the same proportions, if you were right. Did they find a lot of deuterium? I sure didn't hear about it.

Finally, shaped charges have intentionally minimized side effects, otherwise, why not just blow the s--t out of the target? Melting things would be a side effect you'd want to minimize.

Fusion weapons also emit mostly neutrons, which have appalling side effects you wouldn't be able to hide. And they're far from desirable for shaped charges which mainly want x-rays and gamma for their input. You could secondarily make your EM by putting in something to swap neutron kinetic energy for Bremsstrahlung but why? If you had an antimatter primary (unlikely, and with its own issues) then you have gamma right off the bat. No need to add in the secondary.

(LT/ : Production of bremsstrahlung (The German word Brems means brake, thus brake-radiation) when an electron decelerates through interaction with an atom :

Image credit: European Nuclear Society)

Gottago : Here again yes, low yield as I've been saying, probably several very low yields to do the job. better mimics conventional and less mess. Again, from what's been let out in the open, they can be extremely low yield. And yet again I'm no expert on this, but isn't the principle of a fusion device that you don't need the secondary? that's to drive your grandma's nukes, no?

Nope, sorry. The secondary is the fusion part of your complete breakfast.

You have to supply an appalling amount of pressure to get it to go. Generally, you use Li6D wrapped around a crunchy center of Plutonium. The primary compresses the secondary to the point that the plutonium goes critical and detonates in a tiny little fission reaction, this provides the neutrons, heat and pressure to convert some fraction of the Li6 to tritium and start the fusion reaction.

Seeing that it takes a goodly bang to make it go, and that there wasn't that much of a bang anyway, it's tough to argue for teeny tiny little fusion weapons, as they can't be smaller than the primaries, and they make a huge glut of very energetic neutrons which cause their own issues.

On the other hand, you can in fact make very tiny little fission weapons. If you wanted to. Not saying they did.

Even with (LT/ : Wizard in the Woods) WITW's magic antimatter, you still need a sizey primary to get the reaction to go. And the antimatter emits a lot of gammas. Not to mention it would take a heinous amount of power to manufacture, and you can't store it in any quantity without it wanting to get out and give you trouble.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Interesting reading, that whole above thread, titled :
4th Generation MicroNukes Used on WTC1,2 and 7.

Project METC Summary Report :
Explanation of the inner workings of a thermobaric bomb charge (Re-post since now Totse.com exists no more)

And below a very long but scaring explanation of how the CIA and other USA agencies work to cover their mishaps and misdoings.
They seem to work in decades periods, not at all for the long term, where the Russian Intelligence services are so famous for, and the Chinese and Japanese ones really excel in.

Just search in this huge file for the word " Riconosciuto ", to understand how utterly important it still is for the Intelligence services of the world to keep the lid on the latest, most sophisticated thermobaric explosives.
They are too easy to hide and use, with no evidence trail left behind :

www.lostartsmedia.com...

Michael Riconosciuto, the inventor of these thermobaric weapons, got really well protected in "custody".

It seems as if the world's armies or paramilitaries have no direct access to thermobarics.

If needed on a battlefield, better said : slaughterhouse of, always aged-weaponry-holding, opponents, the CIA or KGB or such agency comes in and fixes the job, then disappears again.
They are specifically used against hardened buildings.

In which category the WTC towers certainly fell into.

originally posted by: LaBTop


Anyway, WHY did we never hear or see ANYTHING of those 2 airplane wreckages photographed on top of the two WTC 1 and 2 debris heaps? Were they so totally burned-up already in the 1 and 1.5 hrs burn times before each of the 2 WTC-collapses?

This might be the reason WHY

Burned out on a runway never mind being in a high speed impact, the fuel explosion or the fires then what ever's left being crushed by 10's of thousands of towns of steel and concrete DOH!

This might be the reason WHY

Burned out on a runway never mind being in a high speed impact, the fuel explosion or the fires then what ever's left being crushed by 10's of thousands of towns of steel and concrete DOH!

and the very next line is...."But what about WTC7 then with no airplane present? "

how does fire we cant see remove structural mass either all at once or at the very least, AHEAD of the collapse wave in order to accelerate equal to g. to get the visual results we see.

www.lostartsmedia.com... :

This, according to a Letter of Understanding sent to and signed by Robert Booth Nichols and Michael Riconosciuto in July, 1983.
In questioning Michael Riconosciuto about the FMC agreements, he said he attempted to break away from Robert Nichols in 1984. "The guy nearly got me terminated," declared Riconosciuto. "At the time I was working with Nichols on a proposal to FMC Corporation, which is Food Machinery Corporation, they produced the Bradley Personnel Carrier.
I've got a complete paper-trail on the technology that was being presented. We conducted a test demonstration of an enhanced airfield device which I developed.
We also conducted a test of a hydrodynamic implosion type of explosive device.
The implosion device settled the Nevada Test Range by about 30 feet.
The Lawrence Livermore Labs and the Gallup Ordinance people built a prototype of the device, but they overbuilt it because they wanted an impressive demonstration.
It created an international incident because the demonstration was picked up by Soviet monitoring satellites.

References :

The Riconosciuto Letters, Exhibit "B", Urgent Feb. 14, 2001 Warning to Congressman of 'Planned Attacks in the U.S.' :
educate-yourself.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tom Bedlam : you asked "what could produce heat/molten metal in the rubble". Obviously something exothermic. Fuel and oxygen would be one way - there were a lot of burnable organics under there in the form of office furniture and whatnot. In addition to which, an exothermic aluminum reaction could also have gotten it quite hot over a long period of time, especially if the air was tightly restricted and the rubble provided adequate insulation. If the "molten metal pools" were aluminum, then it's only necessary to provide itself enough heat to stay molten for a while. That might be possible if well insulated and not much oxygen is getting in.

I've also asked at least twice how much metal WAS molten, and of what sort it was. I don't know, and I'd assume you don't either. That makes it really tough to address "what made areas hot", because you can't estimate the energy in the hot areas. Temperature is not heat.

Like I wrote before, the best explanation would be some kind of mechanism like a wood-pile carbonizing pit covered with wet clay, as the locals in Asia and Africa still make. These can burn for weeks with very little oxygen let in, via one small hole in the bottom, to keep the pile smoldering until all wood pieces are carbonized. Then they sell that fully carbonized wood for cooking in wood stoves.

Tom Bedlam : was the smallest building the lowest point so that the water happened to pool there? And again, was there also an equivalent amount of deuterated water? If not, that tells you it wasn't from a fusion weapon.

The total tiny amount of Tritium recorded by the GSGS investigators in the water was much smaller than could be expected from a, proposed by some, mini-fusion weapon.
There was no equivalent amount of deuterated water recorded.
See my next reference link posted.

If you still doubt about the ev. usage of a neutron or fusion bomb in the WTC's, you should read Tom Bedlam's explanations in the above last link !
Btw, he said : "FWIW, the term "red mercury" was a code term for years for Lithium-6-Deuteride."

For the nuclear component thinkers, 18 pages and a Conclusion :

escholarship.org...

The amount of Tritium needed to exist after the WTC collapses to amount for the Tritium measurements by the USGS teams and other independent ones, is much lower as lots of posters here thought or still think there was present.
In fact is was a ridiculously tiny amount, in case you try to express it in weight.
In radiation terms its more impressive.

escholarship.org...

7. Conclusions
34[.3] Ci of tritium were released from the two Boeing 767 on impact with the Twin
Towers at the World Trade Center. The limited measurements and modeling are consistent with an instantaneous (catastrophic) creation of HTO from the aircraft emergency signs, deposition of a small fraction of it at ground zero and water-flow controlled removal from the site. The modeling suggests that the contribution from the aircraft would imply the HTO deposition fraction of [3]%, a value which is judged somewhat too high. Therefore, the source term from the airplanes alone is insufficient to explain the measurements and modeling.

Several weapons were present and destroyed at [the]WTC. The modeling is also
consistent with the second tritium source from the weapon sights (plus possibly tritium watches) where tritium was slowly released from the debris in the lingering fires, followed by an oxidation and removal with the water flow.
Such a limiting case would require a minimum of 115 weapons and a quantitative capturing of tritium. Therefore, such a mechanism alone [seems in]sufficient, which indicates that the weapon/watch source complemented the airplane source.