WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.

leostokes
reply to post by LaBTop

 

Are you sure this photo is from after the collapse of WTC 1, the north tower, so, after the second collapse?

Are you sure that is the Verision building? Vesey Street? WTC 6? Where is the North Tower?

Is the intersection Vesey and West? Is this place within your 300 meter radius of debris? 150 meter radius? 120 meter radius?

Have a good look at your photo



and this Mrs Wood LIDAR image :


That photo was shot about 30 meters to the left of the bottom left point of that LIDAR image. The still standing northern portion of WTC 6 has no damage, the roof of it is intact.
Thus, no heavy debris landed there at all, after BOTH collapses.
Only alu-panel cladding from the exteriors.
Case closed.

Addendum:
Those towers were peeling apart along their four corners. The North tower its northwest corner stood "aimed at" the WTC 6 building, so in that quadrant around that corner, you can not find much heavy debris from that North tower.

edit on 23/12/13 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)

reply to post by leostokes


www.drjudywood.com...


When you enlarge this image with Ctrl+ repeatedly, you will see 2 people with blue shirts standing under that huge American flag in the right side of that image.They are about 1.80 meter, so you have a fair comparison to that huge pile of rubble around that Stairwell B.

The rest of the heavy debris is compacted in the breached cellar regions under and around the tower footprint, which were 18 meters deep. And still more meters of heavy debris, mixed with broken cement and drywall gypsum is sitting above that compacted cellar debris.
Then there is a point in that periphery where the impact of debris was not strong enough anymore to breach the bathtub cellar ceilings. There the lighter debris piled up on those thick strong concrete and steel beams ceilings.

You must understand that ground levels at the WTC site were in fact thick steel plus concrete ceilings of all the cellar spaces beneath it.
You can see that in the construction b/w photos of the WTC complex, there you still can see those two towers standing on the bedrock, with a lot of empty space around their footprints, in that "bath-tub", which were later filled in with all these cellar regions, to be decked with the "ground level" floors.

So, that's where most of the heavy core and exterior debris was compacted in.
The cellar regions in, and just around the two footprints.

reply to post by LaBTop

The still standing northern portion of WTC 6 has no damage, the roof of it is intact.

Do you see the north face? Good. Do you see the falling debris? Good. Do you see where it is falling? No? Well there is a clue in the picture. The Verison building. The debris is falling between the north face of NT and VB. Do you know what is between NT and VB below? Check the map. Yes! It is WTC 6. That debris can not go too far north because it is blocked by VB. No where for it to go except directly onto WTC 6.Now here is WTC 6. Where is the rubble? Should it not be stacked up on the WTC 6 roof that is still intact? In Vesey Street? Piled up against VB and WTC 7 both? Yes of course. There is nowhere else for it to go. Unless it turns to dust and never hits the ground.Well thanks for your help. We have now traced the debris starting from both the north and west faces the North Tower into a cloud of dust.

reply to post by leostokes

The fireman is standing on top of a pile of debris. Any one can see that. The pile he is standing on is no more high than the first story of WTC 6, if that. That is NEAR GROUND LEVEL as I said in my caption.

See my above posts (cellars breached and filled up, prof. Dutch calculations).

Your continued objections to my evidence are dead wrong. Most of your statements (like your screen shot claim) are opinion with no evidence. You must surely think ATS members have no sense.

Next time I will call it an image, a picture, a drawing, whatever.
Don't pop a vein please, and get into a TIA, I'm just getting a bit excited.

leostokes
reply to post by LaBTop

 

The still standing northern portion of WTC 6 has no damage, the roof of it is intact.

Do you see the north face? Good. Do you see the falling debris? Good. Do you see where it is falling? No? Well there is a clue in the picture. The Verison building. The debris is falling between the north face of NT and VB. Do you know what is between NT and VB below? Check the map. Yes! It is WTC 6. That debris can not go too far north because it is blocked by VB. No where for it to go except directly onto WTC 6.

Now here is WTC 6. Where is the rubble? Should it not be stacked up on the WTC 6 roof that is still intact? In Vesey Street? Piled up against VB and WTC 7 both? Yes of course. There is nowhere else for it to go. Unless it turns to dust and never hits the ground.

Well thanks for your help. We have now traced the debris starting from both the north and west faces the North Tower into a cloud of dust.

Never been at the boy-scouts, ain't it? There you learn the basics of common SENSE.
So do not brush up all ATS members under the same umbrella of ignorance.

The architect of that North tower has for YOUR convenience added a nice WHITE corner line in that first picture (or screenshot? ) of yours. You see it stick out from under that debris cloud that's falling left and right from it. The top of the monumental Verizon building is situated just to the left of that WHITE CORNER LINE.

Now look at your second debris field picture/screenshot/image/drawing.
The WHOLE left part of that debris cloud in your first picture fell in that huge hole scooped out from WTC 6, in front of WTC 7. Only light NT debris strafed the south face of WTC 7.

The right part of that blossoming debris cloud fell partly on the southern part of WTC 6 and to the south of it, until over West Street.

The part in the quadrant where that WHITE CORNER stood does not deliver ANY DEBRIS of importance downwards. Because all four sides PEELED away in a direction perpendicular on their orientation.

And that's WHY that northwestern portion of WTC 6 is still standing there, poor mis-leaded DEW fanatic.

reply to post by LaBTop

So, that's where most of the heavy core and exterior debris was compacted in.
The cellar regions in, and just around the two footprints.

Ok about NT and ST and the cellar regions. Does that go for WTC 7 too?

reply to post by LaBTop

The WHOLE left part of that debris cloud in your first picture fell in that huge hole scooped out from WTC 6

They must of had a funnel to get it all in that hole. Otherwise it would spill over onto the still intact part of the WTC 6 roof (along with the right part).

DO you UNDERSTAND by now, that the line that can be drawn from the sharp top (above your letters WTC 6) of what is left of WTC 6, down to the bottom center point of that above photo, is the diagonal line that also goes through the northwestern and the southeastern WHITE CORNER lines of WTC 1, the north tower?

And that diagonal position, is the reason why there is only light debris, paper, plastic and some alu-cladding to be seen there?
Because the north face of the North tower peeled out to the north (on top of the eastern part of WTC 6), and the west face of the North tower peeled out to the west, over West street. And against the buildings at the other side of West Street.

You have most of your orientations messed up.
Go print that circular debris field drawing I posted,



and then have a damn good look at where your above photo was shot, in the rightful position in that circular debris field drawing I posted, but which you absorbed not at all.

It was shot about 30 meters northwest of those two black XX's at the south facade of the Verizon building. Totally out of any heavy debris piles, and at the out-most rim of the light debris piles.

Mrs Wood is misleading the masses, and you as her fanatic follower, too.
If you retract your above misleading post I will retract my "fanatic" remark.

reply to post by LaBTop

The WHOLE left part of that debris cloud in your first picture fell in that huge hole scooped out from WTC 6

Shouldn't there be holes to collect the debris on the other three sides?

leostokes
reply to post by LaBTop

 

So, that's where most of the heavy core and exterior debris was compacted in.
The cellar regions in, and just around the two footprints.

Ok about NT and ST and the cellar regions. Does that go for WTC 7 too?

No. That's why the debris pile of WTC 7 was comparatively higher, and a lot of debris was hanging over the CONEDison Electrical Station part of the building, that was immensely reinforced when WTC 7 was build partly over it.

reply to post by LaBTop

Thus, no heavy debris landed there at all, after BOTH collapses.
Only alu-panel cladding from the exteriors.

I agree that it seems an exaggeration of Dr. JW where she comments about the intersection of Vesey and West Street. The intersection is not naturally in the path of big debris.
To change the subject from the intersection to the region at the base of the west face of NT. Is there agreement that this was a place of near maximum debris? The vehicle is not sitting on a pile of debris. It therefore defines ground level. Ground level in a place where there should be a large debris field. Namely the west side of the North Tower. Why was it not buried? Why was it not badly damaged? Dust it off and drive it away. (Clear a path first.)

reply to post by leostokes


You realize that "funnel" remark is immature?

Now, this following one is not such a stupid question, but you could have seen its solution with your own eyes and you missed it :

leostokes
reply to post by LaBTop

 

The WHOLE left part of that debris cloud in your first picture fell in that huge hole scooped out from WTC 6

Shouldn't there be holes to collect the debris on the other three sides?

i238.photobucket.com...


As you can see, there are whole squares of 100 by 100 meters of exterior paneling fallen FLAT on the spaces between the western foot of the North tower and the buildings on the other side of West street. That kind of flat falling has not such a great penetrating power as the whole cap and radio mast falling upside down into the roof of WTC 6. Creating that hole.

This is however assuming from my side, I think I saw an overhead photo of the whole WTC debris field where someone circled a sort of small cap with a piece of mast on it, at the eastern side of the North tower debris field.

Thus, it could also have been a huge part of the building, where steel and concrete floors were still attached to the southern exterior panels (Vierendeel panels), which "hinged over to the south", broke off from that "hinge" and fell as one part into the roof of WTC 6. Compressing all underlaying structures and itself, to end up on the bottom of that hole as a stack of panels and beams, mixed with concrete.

By the way, I'm still totally convinced they used thermobaric weaponry to bring those three towers down. Only, everyone I know overestimates the amount of explosive force needed to initiate the collapses AFTER THE PLANE IMPACTS AND FUEL EXPLOSIONS, and especially the downward assistance charges, they were only meant to cut the core columns on crucial positions, all the way down till above the Messanine level, above those triple columns that parted then together in one thick column on the ground level.

WTC 7 is a whole other story, they just blew the bottom part to hell. With one huge thermobaric charge, that sucked the interior down.

reply to post by LaBTop

The WHOLE left part of that debris cloud in your first picture fell in that huge hole scooped out from WTC 6

Objection! Are you guessing? Present your evidence. Was the hole there before or after?

reply to post by LaBTop

By the way, I'm still totally convinced they used thermobaric weaponry to bring those three towers down.

Either that or dustification or both.

reply to post by LaBTop


I will ask you one question what do YOU actually know about structures, loading in structures or construction?

reply to post by leostokes


I withdraw the "fanatic"part of my above remark, you at least have the decency to admit a mistake.
----------------------

I am not so sure that is the NT. To me it looks as the ST.
Have a look again at this picture with that red cadre in it :

i238.photobucket.com...


You see that the NT had a whole "curtain" of still standing lobby pillars around the north side of its footprint. If that below photo was shot from the western side of the NT ruins, you would have seen those.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


You also see an about 100 by 100 meters flat part of still together exterior panels laying in that spot at the western foot of WTC 1 (NT), the far bottom left of the above picture.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


That above Ambulance would have been flat like a pancake.

wmd_2008
reply to post by LaBTop

 

I will ask you one question what do YOU actually know about structures, loading in structures or construction?

edit on 23-12-2013 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

A lot more than you assume.
Have the decency to read the whole thread its now 14 pages, you refer to my opening post.
Which has little to do with construction. More with destruction.
What do you know about it, and what whiskey do you drink? I.o.w., n.o.y.b.

LaBTop

Aside from this issue, did all these people forgot the several inches high/thick DUST carpet over the whole south tip of Manhattan? And a great deal of the dust that sank into the Hudson River out of that huge dust plume blown over it?
Don't you think this accounts for a GODDAMN LOT OF CONCRETE AND DRY-WALL DUST ?
.

Quite an extensive list of dust producing material you have there what about the ones you miss.

Concrete,sprayed on fire protection, paint,ceiling tiles ,dust in uncleaned areas of the building,sheetrock, glass the soot from fires there may be more.

Also how much is several inches ?

LaBTop

wmd_2008
reply to post by LaBTop

 

I will ask you one question what do YOU actually know about structures, loading in structures or construction?

edit on 23-12-2013 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

A lot more than you assume.
Have the decency to read the whole thread its now 14 pages, you refer to my opening post.
Which has little to do with construction. More with destruction.
What do you know about it, and what whiskey do you drink? I.o.w., n.o.y.b.

Well all I have seen so far is you quoting the usual conspiracy cliches there must be a handbook with these issued from what I see on here.

I have read enough to see you don't understand as much as you think like many who post on 9/11 forums!

LaBTop
These mechanical floors were reinforced enormously, they should have halted or delayed a gravitational collapse, they did not at all.

Want to show why you think that ?