Where does the idea that Freemasons worship Lucifer come from??

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
It was a gift from the free Masons and the stateu represents SATAN/Venus/Light bearer/ Prometheus or Lucifer

That's not what the video says. At all.

I decide what I take out of that documentary. They say that I is a depiction of Satan, and how you try to ease it out like in, he is the light bearer...bla bla. I do not care, the devil speaks in many tongue.

and this video

You mean where an old man of unknown credentials gets cornered and stumbles through a correct but bumbling definition of what Lucifer actually means? That's really definitive.


He stumbles? Seems very articulate to me, and very passionate about Lucifer. I believe every word of him, cause I had more alarm bells about this.

common sense also. Secrecy is EVIL

Still my believe is Secrecy is sheer Evil.That's why Bilderberg is so like not wanted by everybody, its also secret.

Ohw and this video. This is way past the 33th degree Masonry

So far beyond that it's not Freemasonry at all.

one of the comments on the youtube page

How authoritative.

Grand Hyrophant is the 99th degree

Of an irregular body with no authority over Craft Masonry. I doubt the guy who posted the video was even that; the title "Grand Heirophant" is not exclusive to Freemasonry.

So are you telling me and everybody else that Grand Hierophant does not exist in FreeMasonry? The think different about that in for example the Egyptian masonic academy?

After reading my previous comment, I must say. It looks like I made up my mind, and I am not open to debate it.

I have to retreat in this thread, cannot seem to be objective.

Sorry if I offended some Free Masons

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
I decide what I take out of that documentary.

Take whatever you want, but you're contradicted by both experts.

They say that I is a depiction of Satan, and how you try to ease it out

That wasn't me "trying to ease it out." That's a direct quote from the video you cited.

like in, he is the light bearer...bla bla. I do not care, the devil speaks in many tongue.

In other words, what words actually mean is irrelevant to their interpretation.

I believe every word of him, cause I had more alarm bells about this.

This is textbook confirmation bias. We don't know he's a Mason, we don't know his credentials, and we don't know he's not saying the same thing Bro. Koltko-Rivera said, but he's a star witness; meanwhile, folks with doctorates like Koltko-Rivera, Brent Morris and Art deHoyos are on line one with book-length refutations citing rock-solid sources, but they don't matter.

Still my believe is Secrecy is sheer Evil.

So you're willing to disregard the Bible when it doesn't suit your agenda, and yet you feel perfectly comfortable calling someone else a Satanist.

That's why Bilderberg is so like not wanted by everybody, its also secret.

It's irrelevant what other people think about a completely unrelated group.

So are you telling me and everybody else that Grand Hierophant does not exist in FreeMasonry?

In terms of regular, legitimate Freemasonry, I am telling you that absolutely and without reservation.

The think different about that in for example the Egyptian masonic academy?

I don't happen to care what some fly-by-night degree-peddler thinks about Freemasonry.

"In the fourth century, in Latin, Lucifer meant one who bears light, and it was often used as a name for the planet Venus, the morning star, the one who bears light first thing in the morning before the sun even comes up. In that sense only, the Statue of Liberty is a lucifer, is a light-bearer; not in the sense of Satan, not in the sense of Beelzebub, you know, the Prince of Darkness, it's not that kind of connection at all.

Yes it's the fallen angel that was a shining cherubium, Lucifer was the Light bearer. It's why the name Lucifer.
There are passages in the bible saying "behold as I see Satan fall as lighting from the sky" It is why it was given the correct terminology in Latin as Lucifer, the translation fits the name correct, it is a good description.

Originally posted by pepsi78
There are passages in the bible saying "behold as I see Satan fall as lighting from the sky"

As there are passages in the Bible that say Jesus is the morning star; in the Vulgate Bible he's actually called "lucifer".

It is why it was given the correct terminology in Latin as Lucifer, the translation fits the name correct, it is a good description.

Actually, "lucifer" is a better translation of the Greek phosphoros (which refers to Jesus) than of the Hebrew heylel (which, in popular opinion, refers to Satan). It's more accurate to call Jesus by the name Lucifer than Satan, and the early Church (which spoke Latin almost exclusively) records several uses of the name Lucifer as a pastoral or baptismal name.

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


I am a bit confused. The two videos you linked seem to point to at least an opinion that the Illuminati is long since disbanded, and that the old man might be confused, or perhaps he has dementia. Either way, even if he is a freemason, and he claims to be superman, that doesn't mean that all freemasons think themselves to be superman, just this one guy.

But aside from all that, I was studying about the statue of liberty and found this bit of information very informative. While it seems there was a good bit of trouble raising funds to complete this project, I didn't find any links to masonry involved with it. Even if De Laboulaye was a brother, it seems he acted as an artist and not on behalf of masonry. (if he had, then the vast riches of the masonic empire that controls the world, could have easily funded this project.)

I can't believe the Mods haven't removed most of the posts on here. They attack, call names, and argue ridiculously. Maybe all the Mods are Masons too?

reply to post by theindependentjournal

SO basically the higher you go in masonry the more you become an expert on WITCHCRAFT.

masons are linked to satanism

they think Jehovah is Satan.

every 33rd degree Mason summons Lucifer to grant me wealth and power in a ceremony that can only be described as black magic.

Masons worship Lucifer

What degree Mason are you? I need to know so I know whether you are a clueless follower or simply someone attempting to lie.

they think Lucifer is a God and that Jehovah is Satan.

Masons think Jesus was Lucifer and that the second coming of Christ will be born from Lucifer.

Masonic prophecy states that they think Adolf Hitler and Jesus Christ were one in the same person.

Masonry is nothing more then a very large cult of Lucifer.

Masons must address the prominate hedonistic and/or murdering slimeballs that have staffed their ranks for centuries

Sounds like a good reason to start getting the pitchforks ready though.

Just stay with God and let these wicked sinners burn later on.

the masons consists of largely corrupt bastards

You're right. Masonic name-calling is really out of hand here.

As there are passages in the Bible that say Jesus is the morning star; in the Vulgate Bible he's actually called "lucifer".

Jesus is called that because he is also the light, anything depicted above is shining, light, there for the term enlightment, just like Lucifer, if Lucifer felt from above then he also was a light being, a light barer.

Since he was a being of light lucifer felt from the sky, there for the name Lucifer the light bearer that felt from above. You are mixing Lucifer with other light beings like angels etc in christian clasification that are also light beings, meaning they all shine.

The term Lucifer is applied to the fallen being in the bible.

As for Vulgate Latin it's not the case, we will take a Latin dictionary.

www.babylon.com...
lucifer
N M
morning star| day star| planet Venus; bringer of light

What vulgate are you talking about, this is included into classical Latin

Actually, "lucifer" is a better translation of the Greek phosphoros (which refers to Jesus) than of the Hebrew heylel (which, in popular opinion, refers to Satan). It's more accurate to call Jesus by the name Lucifer than Satan, and the early Church (which spoke Latin almost exclusively) records several uses of the name Lucifer as a pastoral or baptismal name.

Not really.
It's why I don't like people being informed the wrong way so I see it as my duty to make some sense out of this
with this lately "lucifer is not the fallen angel" trend.


But who am I , let facts speak So may we begin........

First let's get something straight.
About the translation from hebrew to latin from latin to english.
Heylel which simply means SHINING ONE translated to Latin Lucifer translated to English that means the light bearer, same thing as shinning one.

Point number one.
Not really, Heylel is a deity it's self in ancient cultures predating hebrew, it was the deity that wanted to climb the mountain top and overthrow the chief god, similar story from the bible same character in canianite mithology he is also a popular figure in gnosis as shares the same conotation, same for hebrew.

The same as this figure in the bible.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning. How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations.....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

We see again the mount of congregation, the mountain top same as Lucifer from the bible wanting to conquer.


Point number two

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning. How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst

If you notice in the bible Lucifer where it is used it's called Heilel, and it is refering to the babylonian king of Tyre.
We already know in this that in the passage god was talking to the babylonian king of tyre.
To find out who king of tyre is all we have to do is go somewhere else in the bible.

Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden , the garden of God ; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald...Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filed with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

You see, it's the same fallen angel that has fallen, the fallen angel was behind the king.
The text of Lucifer does make refrrence to the fallen angel.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Since he was a being of light lucifer felt from the sky, there for the name Lucifer the light bearer that felt from above. You are mixing Lucifer with other light beings like angels etc in christian clasification that are also light beings, meaning they all shine.

And they're both identified as "Lucifer".

The term Lucifer is applied to the fallen being in the bible.

And Jesus.

As for Vulgate Latin it's not the case, we will take a Latin dictionary.

www.babylon.com...
lucifer
N M
morning star| day star| planet Venus; bringer of light

This doesn't contradict anything I've said.

What vulgate are you talking about, this is included into classical Latin

The Vulgate Bible, translated by St. Jerome. It's the only extant text from which we get "Lucifer", and it's used in both contexts.

It's why I don't like people being informed the wrong way

I agree.

so I see it as my duty to make some sense out of this with this lately "lucifer is not the fallen angel" trend.

It's not a "late-breaking" trend. Biblical etymology has been divided on the issue for hundreds of years.

First let's get something straight.
About the translation from hebrew to latin from latin to english.
Heylel which simply means SHINING ONE translated to Latin Lucifer translated to English that means the light bearer, same thing as shinning one.

Exactly. Phosphoros, meaning "bringing light", more readily translates to "light bearer" than heylel, which means "shining one".

Not really, Heylel is a deity it's self in ancient cultures predating hebrew, it was the deity that wanted to climb the mountain top and overthrow the chief god, similar story from the bible same character in canianite mithology he is also a popular figure in gnosis as shares the same conotation, same for hebrew.

I'll need to see a source for that.

If you notice in the bible Lucifer where it is used it's called Heilel

You've presumed that heylel=Lucifer in all contexts. This is a mistake.

You see, it's the same fallen angel that has fallen, the fallen angel was behind the king.

This is exegesis; there's nothing wrong with it, but it has no mention in the passage you've quoted.

And they're both identified as "Lucifer".

Not really, if you want to call every light of being Lucifer then go ahead.
Lucifer was a name for the fallen angel. Because Jesus was called that it is because he was also a light being.
But the name Lucifer is associated with the fallen ones, as stated in the book of enoch fallen angels are like fallen stars.

And Jesus.

Yes because Jesus was a light being, just like other light beings. Don't mix jesus with helel, helel is also a deity in ancient culture. Any fallen angel is like a Lucifer, Jesus fell on earth as a messenger, then he went back up.

This doesn't contradict anything I've said.

It does not, they are all light beings, but the translation for Lucifer as helel the deity is correct.

The Vulgate Bible, translated by St. Jerome. It's the only extant text from which we get "Lucifer", and it's used in both contexts.

The terminology is part of classical latin, the translation serves a correct description of a light being fallen from the sky. It's a correct terminology for such a creature.

Exactly. Phosphoros, meaning "bringing light", more readily translates to "light bearer" than heylel, which means "shining one".

Lucifer in many Latin cultures means to shine, there is even a name LUCIAN.
Lucifer refers to the shining cherub that fell from the sky, if you go to genesis you will see he is called a shining cherub.





I'll need to see a source for that.

www.deliriumsrealm.com...
However, it is more probable that this passage is an allusion to a Canaantie or Phoenician myth about how Helel, son of the god Shahar, sought the throne of the chief god and was cast down into the abyss because of this. Evidence for this theory comes from an Ugaritic poem about two divine children, Shachar (dawn) and Shalim (dusk), who were born as the result of the intercourse of the god El with mortal women. That would make El, Elyon, and Shahar members of the Canaanite pantheon and the "mount of meeting" is the abode of the gods, which corresponds to Mount Olympus in Greek mythology. Unfortunately, this is just speculation as archaeologists have not uncovered any Canaanite sources that describe Helel ben Shahar or a revolt against Elyon.

Many Apocalyptic writers interpreted this passage as referring to Lucifer, and wrote about the fall of the angels. 1 Enoch refers to the falling angels as stars (see the watchers) and may be the beginning of the overlap between the story of the watchers and Isaiah.

If you notice in the bible Lucifer where it is used it's called Heilel

You've presumed that heylel=Lucifer in all contexts. This is a mistake.

As I told you heilel is also a deity, an entity, it's his name ,like your name is I don't know Mario.

This is exegesis; there's nothing wrong with it, but it has no mention in the passage you've quoted.

Yes it does, it's the same king, same fallen angel.

Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden , the garden of God ; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald...Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filed with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

You were an anoited guardian cherub, (the cherubium that fell)

Refers to the king of tyre,"Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him"
It makes a point to who is behind the king, the same king that is quoted as Lucifer in the other chapter, it's the same persona, it is clear without a doubt. The king is the fallen angel.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I can't believe the Mods haven't removed most of the posts on here. They attack, call names, and argue ridiculously. Maybe all the Mods are Masons too?

Hey fellow ATSer!

I just couldn't believe that you didn't know about this, but I am so glad I am able to help. If you move your mouse over the little box that says member just underneath the avitar, you will notice that it drops down. There is a menu there. On that menu is a button that says "ALERT!". If you click the mouse (using the left button) once your mouse is over that button, it sets up a U2U session linking that post. It goes directly to a secret area on ATS that only the Mods go to. Now I don't know what kind of things happen in that area, but after that button is clicked, and the person who clicked it told "them" about what made them angry/sad about that particular post, usually, someone comes along and fixes things. (usually a MOD, but sometimes the big guy himself)

So I suggest you strap on a superhero cape and ALERT the mods when you see something you don't like. That way, you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

reply to post by pepsi78


Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:
ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum,
Christus Filius tuus qui,
regressus ab inferis,
humano generi serenus illuxit,
et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.

reply to post by theindependentjournal

You shouldn't be the one pointing the finger, accusing others of name calling when its been shown you throw names around pretty liberally.

The discussion of Mods who are Masons have been brought up. It's rather nasty to question ones professionalism without proof. If you feel you've been attacked or that a rule has been broken there are ways to report the post.

After hearing out of the words of my own masonic family members and others that they "worship lucifer" i had to do some research. One of the most illustrious masonic writers Manly P. Hall has wrote that he essentially had to bring a soul to lucifer a year. Whether he meant that metaphorically that he had to bring another into the (L)odge MLM style to help pay for the floor tile or he actually worships HELEL ha shachar could perhaps be more further researched but I just had to post to get the masons into mass denial mode again and perhaps I could then share some more research into the big L and the frermacons.

Originally posted by partycrasher
After hearing out of the words of my own masonic family members and others that they "worship lucifer" i had to do some research. One of the most illustrious masonic writers Manly P. Hall has wrote that he essentially had to bring a soul to lucifer a year. Whether he meant that metaphorically that he had to bring another into the (L)odge MLM style to help pay for the floor tile or he actually worships HELEL ha shachar could perhaps be more further researched but I just had to post to get the masons into mass denial mode again and perhaps I could then share some more research into the big L and the frermacons.

There's no point into going into denial until you can actually provide a source that shows where Hall said that. You can pull stuff out of your ass all you like, and there's really not any reason for us to argue about it with you, because we all know it's still crap.

This is a complex topic in a sense, from many angles of the scenario and i'm reluctant to talk about it because it's a touchy subject but i'll try.....

Let's say for instance that the Masons who are in bed with TPTB who are also losely called the modern day Illuminati do indeed worship Lucifer and lets even say that these Masons were the so called "higher ups" if that means a legit higher unknown ranking to most Masons or just a made up ranking within a cabal of a secret sect of Masons who have power prestige and influence and it makes them feel like they are above the average Mason, well if these Masons do worship Lucifer (and for the record i think some do) should every Mason who dosen't worship Lucifer be confined to that status, in another words lets say the average Mason didn't know he was worshiping Lucifer then was he really???.....Should he be at fault because some one of a higher degree does???, That's something you gotta ask your self...

I mean even the main conspiracy theory of the Masons being involved with TPTB also state that the lower level Masons aren't aware of these higher degrees so should they be held accountable if they were duped and didn't know and didn't worship Lucifer like the higher degrees are alleged too???......

The Bible says that even some of God's own will be deceived at the end of days, dosen't that perhaps apply to some Masons....

Don't get me wrong i'm not here to defend Masonry it is what it is, but surely you must take what i'v said into consideration....

reply to post by King Seesar

On another forum I was discussing this with an anti-Mason who made a similar remark. This is what I said to him:

My points are there is no secret inner circle that controls all of Freemasonry. We are too decentralized with various independent and sovereign organizations. We have our own legislative, electoral, and judicial processes that couldn't be usurped by some secret group as the members would not allow it. Whatever you think this secret inner circle is, it is not Freemasonry, plain and simple.

Am I saying Freemasonry is 100% perfect no, but I am saying it is not evil, wrong, or immoral. Am I saying that all who have been Masons were good men. No. There are always bad apples in the bunch, but we endeavor to expel those who deserve it. You don't however destroy the orchard for a few bad apples.

As I said above we have processes that would prevent a secret inner circle from controlling us. For the most part, our Constitution, Statutes, By-Laws, and Regulations are very specific in power distribution and legislative processes.

I see it as impossible for a secret inner circle to hold control within Freemasonry.

reply to post by senrak


Would the G happen to stand for Gate? As in StarGate?

Who is Rainman?