Need Some Honesty from all you Single Men Out There

Originally posted by timidgal
Okay so this is the very first rant I've ever posted on ATS, but honestly, I just don't get it and I need some honesty from all you single gents out there.

I am a middle-aged, better-than-average looking divorced female (not trying to be conceited here but stating what many have told me) who has, for many years and reasons, stayed away from the singles scene because I just didn't think it was worth it. The last guy I was involved with turned out to be a sociopath who haunted me for years and years. Anyway, a few months ago, I decided that life is too short and I meet a great guy - we have lots in common, the chemistry is great, he professes his intentions to build a loving and solid future together (his statement and not mine) and all is cautiously hopeful. Then completely out of the blue, a friend emails me to say that she just saw a profile of my man on one of the dating sites and it's current because it says he's "Online Now". WTF???

What is it that we women are missing in our thinking? Believe me, I'm independent and have learned that you don't need a man to feel complete (and vice versa for all you gentlemen out there, as well as all you same-sex attracted individuals), but just when I finally let my guard down and think "well maybe...", I get hit upside the head with a ton of bricks.

Can someone please explain this to me? If you're a middle-aged man and you meet a compatible, attractive, affectionate female who is supposedly the antithesis of what you've been looking for, what is it that drives you to stray? Can someone please explain this insanity to me? Needless to say, his butt is being kicked to the curb but I feel like this was it for me and I'm not putting myself out there again. Can anyone lend some clarity to this?

By the way, thanks for reading my rant. I'm just really fed up and hurt...

TG

Good, honest questions, and I'm sure some men probably ask the same. I think you meant something like "personification" not "antithesis" since the definition of antithesis is "opposite". I will say that perhaps, perhaps, you are being rash in your judgement of him, I know some women go to online dating sites just to look around for entertainment purposes and nothing more. Maybe he had some free time and was just killing some time online, or looking at flirts someone had sent his way. Perhaps he was even on there deciding whether he should delete his profile. I also know some sites are not entirely accurate as far as who is actually online. It appears you are placing a lot of trust in the word of this friend of yours, hopefully that is not a misplaced trust. Have you asked him about this potential problem? If so, what was his reaction, did he admit to it? (I have not read the follow-up replies as of yet, so maybe some of my questions have already been answered.) Of course I don't know the whole story since I can only go by the limited information you have furnished us with in your intro. post. Was his proposition to you a proposal of marriage? How did you react to his proposal? Did he seem pleased at your reaction, or was there any way your reaction could have been misconstrued by him as being indifference, a "maybe" on your part? Were you both open about claiming to be exclusively dating only each other at the time of his mention about having a future together? If so, how long had you been together? Maybe I don't need to know that, but I would reflect on it if I were you.

On a side note, I will say that as my observation many women, well too many women seem to have a knack for turning down fine choices for a mate only to select one that will not work out. I suppose the same could be said for some men as well. Maybe part of that is because too many men are deceptive, and some women are attracted to men with problems, subtle or not so subtle? I have written the following in the past and will throw it out here for your consideration, keep in mind that I am not automatically labeling you as falling in this category OP.

"It seems that some women are better off staying single considering the poor choice of men that they make. It is as if they turn up their nose at all of these fine choices that beg for their attention only to select the absolute worst mate. The only one perfectly guaranteed to destroy their souls and render a lasting marriage as utterly and completely impossible."

And,

"I've said in the past, I always wonder how mankind continues on with the poor choices women make in men....Yep, it's a catastrophe and although men are also to blame, women are not absolved of responsibility."

Then quoting someone else,

"In the real world, women seek the love of clearly superior men who find them unworthy, resulting in the carnage we see around us. Women are putting themselves in these situations in an effort to get what they want."

If you're not one of those females that picks out those high testosterone 'alpha' males and then tries to see through their exterior to find a soft inner core, at least hoping for it, then please disregard the last three quotes.

reply to post by timidgal


Given the fact you didn't state this in your OP yet heavily implied he WAS living with you, I can only assume you two were having sex.

You said that you BOTH agreed to leave the dating sites behind.

He told you he was ready to settle down............................but did he specifically state that it was YOU he wanted to settle down with? Be honest .If he did, then he lied and he's a dog.

Too many people these days though go with innuendo's and assumptions because they think their experiences can speak for themselves. They think that spelling things out verbally is childish somehow because we should all, as adults, know how things work when certain things are implied. Well, that apparently isn't the case.

You BOTH have to clarify verbally to each other what it is you want. Face to face, on the phone, texting, whatever it takes. If you don't know 100% then you didn't really have any business letting him live with you. I'm only saying this because there are so many things in your post that are open for interpretation.

Which is worse, clarifying things 100% verbally to each other at the outset, or being in this predicament to where you just don't know what his intentions really are? Sitting down and talking things out won't get your heart broken. Building a relationship with innuendo's and projections will though.

You might not want to hear this but apparently you two didn't have as much chemistry as you originally thought. It also sounds like you rushed into things because, despite what you said about not NEEDING someone to feel complete, you wanted this to work out too bad. Bad enough that you TOLD yourself that you both have chemistry, have the same 5 year plan for starters, and all the other "sureties" that people try to solidify before diving into the deep end. I know you're independent and that your previous relationship turned out bad, but no one WANTS to be alone timid-gal. Especially at this time of year.

Sorry , but it sounds like you were projecting your own wants onto the man, and it sounds like he was going along with it just to “get him some”. He did his own brand of projecting. A man who, by all accounts, sounds like a dog anyway. Someone said he might be insecure. That sounds doubtful from what you said. I've got enough insecurities to fill a 30' trailer from Casa Grande and I would never tell a woman I want something as sure as a long term relationship, then turn around and sign up for dating sites. If we weren't together and not talking to each other on a steady basis that would be one thing. That would be verifying that everyone really does pale in comparison to you. But he was living with you and doing this? He's not insecure. He's a dog.

You mentioned your previous relationship ended bad and that he was a sociopath who ended up stalking you. Or in your words “haunted” you. I don't know how long you were together, but it's no secret that after two people have been together long enough, they rub off on each other. They pick up some of the qualities of the other. The relationship ended and you got your heart broken. As a result of that and the fact that you didn't want to get hurt again, maybe some of those “stalking” qualities your ex had, you picked up on as a defense mechanism so you wouldn't get hurt again. That's understandable since no one WANTS to get hurt and you sound like a sensitive girl. But don't become the type of person you say you despise. That's not going to help your cause much.

Remember, talking things out beforehand won't get your heart broken. It will help you make sure that what you want is right for you so won't get your heart broken down the line. Find someone as sensitive as you and I doubt very seriously that things will go wrong. And if you don't read people that well, get a friend or family member involved who can and who has your best interest at heart to help you out. Sounds like you need a sensitive and caring man. Some of us can come across as being otherwise, but that's only because of the life we've led. Don't let our gruff exterior put you off.

A good woman like you should be able to see through all that anyway.

To everyone who posted from Timidgal:

I wanted to make a final post to thank everyone who was kind enough to lend their thoughts and suggestions to my post. I am humbled by the outpouring of support and was equally grateful to others who called me out on my impetuous and emotional reaction. This was a real eye opener and I will be thinking about it for a long time to come.

As I replied to another poster, it is typically my M.O. to respond to each and every reply. You were all kind enough to take the time to respond with your thoughts, and I feel that it is only right for me to return such decency with an acknowledgement. This was never any type of pity play for attention as some have suggested, but that's for you to either believe or not. With that said, I think we’ve more or less covered all ground here and I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m just too exhausted to continue. If I didn’t respond to the final few posters, please know that I read each and every one of your comments and am grateful for your input.

I can't begin to express how much everyone's outpouring of compassion, and even some of the blunt admonishments, has helped me get through the day. After posting the thread last night, I had hoped to get a response or two - if I was lucky - and was completely overwhelmed by the level of empathy, compassion & honesty I received from so many. That was the good thing. The bad thing is that I worried that I had brought to the surface a lot of pain for so many people who were caring & compassionate enough to share their own experiences in an effort to help a fellow human being through a tough time. I struggled with that for a little while, but in the end I realized that the sheer volume of responses spoke for itself. So many of us have been devastated at some point in our lives by what we perceived as the loss of a great love & perhaps my rant provided a safe venue for others to also vent & release some of their own pain. My hope is that it provided some small measure of catharsis for you as well.

I want to end by letting everyone know how this ultimately played out and I'm doing so with full disclosure. It's not a pretty picture but I am willing to share everything honestly, warts and all. I did, in fact, speak with him late this afternoon in an effort to provide an opportunity for him to explain. As some of you tried to warn me, he gave me all kinds of excuses that tugged at my heart-strings. They were about his own insecurities, his struggles with balancing his life, the fact that he has been depressed, etc. In spite of some of the very sage advice I received from many of you, I fell for it, hook, line and sinker and offered him another chance. It wasn’t until some time later that I realized he had not answered my question about why he had created another dating profile and as right, wrong or ashamed as it may be for me to admit, I used my friend’s codes again and sure enough, he has been online for the last several hours, I would assume checking out his other options. I am not going to act emotionally again and will heed the advice so many gave me. I am going to let this go, lick my wounds and move on. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice… I’m not going to become a cyber-stalker and though some of you have questioned this, I can only say again that this was not my idea. I was not spying and will never log on again to see what he’s up to. That is beneath me. I’ll try to learn from this experience and turn a negative into a positive as best I can, but as we all know, that’s easy to say in theory and harder to practice in life. It will be a long time before I am so trusting again, but will hope that time will heal wounds and if I’m fortunate enough at some point in the future to come upon that rare diamond in the rough, I can only hope that I will have grown as a person and be grateful for my blessings. Many of the men who responded made me realize that there are some good, honest and decent ones out there. I can tell you though that it won’t be someone I’ve met on a dating website as I feel there's too much potention for danger.

I hope that those of you in a similar position are also able to find someone special and genuine if that's what you truly desire. We all deserve to determine our own personal definition of happiness and if we're lucky and secure enough in our own level of development, to then go out and find it. Thank you all again.

Respectfully & with great admiration,
Timidgal

reply to post by timidgal


Pretty straight forward... He was all talk. Welcome to the World of theater where even the actors don't know they're acting.

My honest advice... It takes several years (roughly 3) to carefully observe a person. The act reaches a breaking point, or you'll find there's some real substance to your relationship.

reply to post by timidgal


I hope things work out better for you in the future. Sorry it came out like that. I'm going to say this: When it gets to the point you feel like you have to spy on someone it's just time to let that crap go.

I'm sure you will find someone more worthy of your time.

I hope you do come to see this as a positive experience all in all.

Plus, I think you really dodged a bullet here!

A lying therapist with self-esteem issues, with the career-based knowledge of how to deliberately # with your head?! This could've been sooo much worse!



PS. I really like that line Americanist:

"Welcome to the World theatre, where even the actors don't know they're acting."

double post

oops, last post: *World of theatre

I am involved in a serious relationship that began online. I'm asking her to marry me Saturday. I would never dream of cheating on her. That's not my nature. With that being said, before I met her I had about 3-4 different sites I used to chat with ladies. I cancelled a couple of them but I still have a couple active that I just blatantly forgot about. I occasionally get a message or a wink on them and I will log in just to see how ugly or pretty the girl on the other end is. It's flattering... Or humiliating... But I never respond.

Perhaps your boyfriend just logged in to an account he already had (different from where he met you) and he was just seeing who sent him a wink...

reply to post by Radekus


I too will try not to laugh here! ... .. . (my sublime reply will just be looked upon as a crime) . .. ... and thank you for trying not to laugh.

So he was on a dating site. Maybe he was chatting with woman on there. Do you know if he actually ever went and met anyone from that site. Maybe he just wanted to talk with woman whao have the same interests as him.

BTW - I am married and on one of those sites. I chat with the woman and make it clear I want nothing else but to have someone other than my wife to talk to.

Originally posted by timidgal
Okay so this is the very first rant I've ever posted on ATS, but honestly, I just don't get it and I need some honesty from all you single gents out there.

I am a middle-aged, better-than-average looking divorced female (not trying to be conceited here but stating what many have told me) who has, for many years and reasons, stayed away from the singles scene because I just didn't think it was worth it. The last guy I was involved with turned out to be a sociopath who haunted me for years and years. Anyway, a few months ago, I decided that life is too short and I meet a great guy - we have lots in common, the chemistry is great, he professes his intentions to build a loving and solid future together (his statement and not mine) and all is cautiously hopeful. Then completely out of the blue, a friend emails me to say that she just saw a profile of my man on one of the dating sites and it's current because it says he's "Online Now". WTF???

What is it that we women are missing in our thinking? Believe me, I'm independent and have learned that you don't need a man to feel complete (and vice versa for all you gentlemen out there, as well as all you same-sex attracted individuals), but just when I finally let my guard down and think "well maybe...", I get hit upside the head with a ton of bricks.

Can someone please explain this to me? If you're a middle-aged man and you meet a compatible, attractive, affectionate female who is supposedly the antithesis of what you've been looking for, what is it that drives you to stray? Can someone please explain this insanity to me? Needless to say, his butt is being kicked to the curb but I feel like this was it for me and I'm not putting myself out there again. Can anyone lend some clarity to this?

By the way, thanks for reading my rant. I'm just really fed up and hurt...

TG

well, since i do not know this ex of yours personally, i couldnt completely judge this situation because theres certain actions that i would need to see him do or certain patterns/ways of speech i would need to hear to be able to judge him more accurately...however this does seem pretty sketchy to me. I mean, why would he go on those sites if he has a beautiful significant other?!?! Honestly, my child's mother/ex girlfriend, is beautiful; about a year after we started dating, i made the choice of signing up for one of those sites like that, not because i was going to cheat on her, because i havent ever, i made a promise to my other after she passed so im a faithful guy... BUT i signed up for the site because i wanted to reassure myself that i was still attractive in other females' eyes, without my girlfriend(at the time) knowing. i know for a fact that what i did was not a cool thing to do to her, but it was in blind innocence, other than the flirting part haha, but like i said, thats where the ball drops.... do you think he possibly just wanted to do something along the lines of what i was trying to accomplish? if not, then maybe he just is not the type to be able to settle down without staying faithful.... one key peice of advice is how purely devoted somebody is when you need help, that will always judge the possible progression of passion and love to the next level you are most comfortable with! im pretty good with relationship advice even though im just 27, feel free to message me anytime

reply to post by timidgal


Humans are polygamous by nature, and at least flirting elsewhere is no harm done and actually works to improve your own relationship. Sounds like you simply need to stop being so insecure.

Well, I'm almost 30( God really? What the hell man time flies) so I feel I have a pretty good grasp of what men are like, being one myself and knowing plenty. A great majority of men using online dating sites, aren't really looking for serious relationships. They may tell you that, but a lot of online dating sites are sort of a game to them. Too many men take advantage of the fact they basically have an online catalogue of women to chose from, and like it or not a great many of individuals using online sites may fit into the desperation category(not saying you are) both a colegue from work and my brother have on numerous occasions pulled out their Iphones to profess how easy they think it would be to sleep with women on the site. As well as tell me stories about the horrible things they've done to get into the pants of women. It's just like a bar. Men can use the site to be who ever they say they are with not a whole lot to back it up.

My brother met a girl online, she's really nice but he does say the weirdest things. They're in a committed relationship, but almost daily he will tell me about how he thinks he's going to dump her. He's started talking to one of his exes and it seems he speaks about cutting it off with the current girl more frequently. Men as a whole are just men. We think with our penis'. I do it, I've never strayed but if I see someone attractive I find myself looking at them, and when I realize it I think " When did I look?" It's just wired in, we can't help certain thoughts, how ever those that act on them get stuck in a " Mode." Once a cheater always a cheater.

I guess a good way to put it is, if a dog knows he can get in the cupboard and eat the treats inside he will always try. Even if he gets in trouble and knows it's wrong the desire will always be there, and the easier it is the more likely he is to try. I can't say this is the way with all men, as I have yet to stray from a committed relationship, but I'm the type to just call it off and then jump( which I have done to more than a few women in my past.)

I honestly don't know what to say to you. Don't give up, keep your head up and don't let him hurt your pride. He's the dog not you, and it likely has very little or nothing to do with you. Irregardless of how attractive, kind, sweet, perfect you may be if the man is one to stray he is going to stray, and it can be incredibly difficult to determine which are faithful and which are not. Men can be amazing liars when it comes to sex.

The last guy I was involved with turned out to be a sociopath who haunted me for years and years.

reply to post by timidgal


you need another one of those as you love sociopaths.

I realise Timidgal has come to a conclusion, but i would like to make a point about this

thread.


BOTTOM LINE IS HE WAS DISHONEST

It amazes me the number of posters making excuses for HIS dishonesty:- a few examples


# Was possibly on line to delete his account (he already had Timidgal delete hers, why

so slow to delete his? ) If he was honest in his intentions he would probably have

deleted his account first, before asking her to delete hers!

# Maybe he had some free time and was killing time on line

# Maybe he only wanted to chat with a like minded women!

# And so what IF the OP, her friend, or anyone else were 'stalking' on line IF he had nothing

to hide he wouldn't have been found out!


If he was an upright person he wouldn't need the' benefit of the doubt'

1) He asked you to take yours down - Controlling move, he's not sure of him self - and kept his up and continues to "play" on there. You don't have enough invested to try to make it work. These are early warning signs. Keep at it, you'll meet someone genuine. I'd kick his arse to the curb if I were you.

He's asking you to stop looking, but he's still looking. It's as plain as day. Sure we are curious like cats, but dishonesty is another thing.

Originally posted by dfsjr51
So he was on a dating site. Maybe he was chatting with woman on there. Do you know if he actually ever went and met anyone from that site. Maybe he just wanted to talk with woman whao have the same interests as him.

BTW - I am married and on one of those sites. I chat with the woman and make it clear I want nothing else but to have someone other than my wife to talk to.

And you wife is cool with that? Sounds like you looking for an out or someone "on deck". I wouldn't defend the guy he's dishonest.

Originally posted by GreenGlassDoor
I am in my 30s and can tell you exactly what is going on. He's window shopping, looking to see if something better is out there.

I used to do it in my mid-20s. He was buttering you up with nice words because he is insecure and afraid you will leave him while not being emotionally invested in the long term. It comes from immaturity and lacking self-worth.

What most women fail to understand is measuring a guy is pretty simple: if he is telling it to you rather than doing it you're being fed a line. We'll promise you the Moon to get our way, but that check will bounce once cashed.

The only thing you need to remember is: "Is he talking about it or being about it?"

Overly romantic guys are particularly bad at this. They need to bury a woman neck-deep in chocolate and flowers in hopes the woman doesn't detect how shallow and needy they are [buying your love]. A genuine guy makes you feel like a million bucks because he emits his zen-like awesomeness.

Great assessment -- I get the same feeling from this guy. You don't need someone who'll settle for you only because there's currently no hotter piece of a** out there (that will have him, that is).

Originally posted by timidgal
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You raise a good point and I honestly wonder why we women are so intimidated by even the thought of just looking? In my world, it's one thing for him to gawk at a beautiful woman walking down the street - who can blame him for that - but to go on a dating website and peruse the offerings is something totally different. Am I being overly defensive?

No, you're not. And don't listen to the posters saying you should put up with it and it's no big deal. It really is.

Originally posted by timidgal

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by timidgal

 

I think it could be cultural not neurological, but honestly, I feel the same way as you about girls and I'm a guy! Also, girls tend to be attracted to guys with options, just something to think about...there is definitely a wiring issue, though...

And AfterInfinity has some good advice.

The funny thing is that this guy had absolutely no confidence until we became involved and I made him see what a "great" guy he is. So at the end of the day, I'm the one who gave him the confidence to find those options and I'm the one who pays the price.

Oh well, I can't change who I am - I'm a loving person who believes that everyone deserves to love themselves and be loved by others. If nothing else, I need to guard against becoming overly cynical toward everyone because of this experience.

You saying that rang a bell with me, because I've been there, done that. Now, I don't want to attack you or anything, but self-awareness is key if you want to find a really loving partner.

Have you ever considered that you may not be a "loving person" so much as someone who loves to be needed, specifically, someone who loves to "rescue" others (that goes for stray dogs and cats, lonely old people, men with issues, etc.)? If you can answer "yes" to that--and you don't have to tell me, but be honest with yourself--it means you are set up to ALWAYS attract the "problem cases," which doesn't exactly make for happy, balanced relationships.

I'd give this some thought if I were you; if you can break the pattern, you can free yourself and find a truly awesome man. I had to do it and have been rewarded with a marriage of 12 years now that is just as happy as the first day we got together. But I had to eradicate my own dysfunctional patterns first before this could happen.