Christians, what would your Jesus do, if here today!?

Just a little note about christians not being able to judge others. Jesus says in John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

What is righteous judgment? It is judging wether things are of God or not. So christians should be judging people all the time.

Christians are not perfect they are just forgiven.

When Jesus comes back all the true believers of Him, the ones who truly love Him, will be gone. And everyone that is left will be going through the worst time anyone could ever imagine.

How can they be going through the worst time they could imagine, Rose? Isn't that what they want, all the pesky Christians outta here and they be able to be as perverse as their hearts can imagine?

Originally posted by defcon5
One more thing as long as we are on the topic can you prove Wiccan to be the one true Religion based on anything besides other Wiccan writers works?

No, then as a group you people need to stop asking us to do this as well.

Although this question was not solely intended for myself to answer, I feel the need to express some points on said question. Historically speaking there is strong evidence that a Wiccan type of religion was the first to make an appearance on earth. Historians usually refer to it as the "Great Goddess" theory, and the aforementioned evidence is present in many archaeological finds in Neolithic Europe. Whether or not a Wiccan type of religion is "true" or not is highly debatable, just like any other religion, but one thing is for certain...it was one of the first. Representations of fertility figures can be found as early as 7000-6000 B.C. in places like Dordogne, Laussel, France, and the Ukraine. The famous "Venus of Willendorf" is an early example of just this.

The "Great Goddess Theory", as it is commonly known, centered around the Earth Mother as a central theme...the life giver of the world. This, in fact, highly resembles the present day Wiccan beliefs of a "Goddess" and "nature" playing key roles.

PS- When talking about Wiccan's you should denote them as "Wiccan", but when talking about the religion as a whole, the singular form of the word "Wicca" is best. It would not be correct to say, as you did, "prove Wiccan to be...", but instead "prove Wicca to be..."

[edit on 23-10-2004 by Jazzerman]

I apologize for misnaming of the Wicca religion, it just did not sound grammatically correct since it seems like it ought to be plural.

As far as the Druidic and Goddess religions that it is based on, I was aware of the age of many artifacts found in conjunction with these religions, but age is a different thing then being the right one, or the true one.

What a cop out! "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven"... Oh it's good to be Christian in that way isn't it!? I have no problem with any positive religion as I feel that they are valid if one lives it the way they are interned. But I have a problem the way most Christians use the religion to be hateful and hurtful to others. Most of them look at it just like that, We're not perfect but we're forgiven. Yep...I can sin and do what I want cause I'll be forgiven.. what a load of BS. I can't understand why so many Christians want to use their bible as an excuse to be mean to others. You can ask me what makes me such an expert... Because I read, I study, and I learn. You should try it and it learn your own religion. I think the "not perfect, we're forgiven" remark was the perfect phrase to be brought up in this thread....it most defiantly shows the true mentality here.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
pesky Christians outta here and they be able to be as perverse as their hearts can imagine?

Thomas, no no no!! Due to all the dialog back and forth you misunderstand! I don't want all Christians gone. How ludicrous! We just get sick of hearing that Christianity is "the only true god", tired of people using their religion as an excuse to hate other people, tired of all the killing in the name of a god. Tired of people sinning all over the place while pointing a finger at others for sinning....it's hypocritical....Is that hard to understand? You would think that you find Christians, if they want to help what they consider "lost souls"...befriending gays, and those of other religions, being fair and talking to them, being helpful and displaying their religion as something positive, don't ya think?

Originally posted by defcon5
I apologize for misnaming of the Wicca religion, it just did not sound grammatically correct since it seems like it ought to be plural.

As far as the Druidic and Goddess religions that it is based on, I was aware of the age of many artifacts found in conjunction with these religions, but age is a different thing then being the right one, or the true one.

First off, no apology is needed . It was more of a grammatical problem, and not a really big one even at that. I just thought I should say something...no big deal!

On you second point...I do agree. There is no way to "prove" any religion is RIGHT or WRONG, but a good debate about any of them that pushes one's own knowledge to the limits is always a good thing, and always in order. This is why most religious beliefs fall into the categories of either a straight out hypothesis (no proof), or a theory (if their is some substantial scientific proof), and NOT as a religious Law. However, it should be noted that the earlier the relgion is, the more likely it is to be the original religion of mankind. The plethora of religions that are in existance today usually claim their roots go back only a few thousand years, and accordingly so, but many Pagan religions including Wicca claim much earlier timeframes. This is the exact reason why Wicca is more nature based like many Pagan religions, and it should only stand that with the progression of the human conscious comes materialism and the focus of the "self" in religious practice.

This "self" focus nurtures on the belief that ones spiritual preservation is the answer, and can be seen in some of the more recently developed religions such as Islam and Christianity. Older religions tend to focus on the role of the human coinciding with that of nature itself, and the strong bond that both share with each other.

::::::Thread Jack::::::

Jazz....you were still posting when "I" went to bed, and here you are still.......don't you sleep friend!? I gotta go to work or I'd be mashing the mattress.

::::End Thread Jack:::

Originally posted by LadyV
Yep...I can sin and do what I want cause I'll be forgiven

You both missed a point here again; even a Christian must TRULY REPENT their sin to be forgiven. Most Christians that are hypocrites have a big shock coming for them, because they never repent.

There is a quote in the Bible, but I am at work and do not have one in front of me, so I am going to wing it. It goes something like this:

Not everyone that comes to me saying Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Originally posted by LadyV
You can ask me what makes me such an expert... Because I read, I study, and I learn. You should try it and it learn your own religion

So, what are you saying I am not learned and studied in the Bible or my religion, shows how little you know about me, I�ll take you on any day of the week.

Originally posted by LadyV
Jazz....you were still posting when "I" went to bed, and here you are still.......don't you sleep friend!?

I gotta go to work or I'd be mashing the mattress.

Good question...probably due to the fact the I forgot to log off last night. However, my job is 8-5 Monday thru Friday...so weekends I have plenty of free time. Also, I'm usually up early on Saturdays to listen to live internet radio football (soccer...whatever you want to call it) from a club I support in Wales. Being that the time difference is 6 hours, it usually means I will be up early on Saturdays.

PS- This place is addicting!

[edit on 23-10-2004 by Jazzerman]

Originally posted by defcon5
So, what are you saying I am not learned and studied in the Bible or my religion, shows how little you know about me, I�ll take you on any day of the week.

What non-Christians (pagans, other religions, athiests, agnostics) find is that MOST Christians are shockingly unaware of what's in the Bible. They listen to what's preached at them, but don't go beyond that. Most think that the Bible was a single book, and have no idea how it was constructed and have never read some of the OTHER texts that were considered to be canonical. Most are unaware of the changes in translations (most think that the Old Testament is a copy of the Torah, when in fact there are a number of changed verses.)

Most claim to be strict literalists... but don't follow anything in the Old Testament except the 10 commandments (and one therefore has to ask == where did it say Jesus said, "okay. God says enough of that old stuff now here's the new stuff, but you still gotta follow the 10 Commandments.)

...and so on and so forth.

I'm no expert, but I have corrected Christians a number of times on their rendering of Bible verses (I just quote from one of the Blue letter Bibles.)

So, yes, we get the impression that most Christians don't know much about their own religion. On the board here, one of the finest Biblical scholars is Amadeus (I have checked his comments on any number of occasions and have found them to be correct (including the stuff that I said,"oh come on now. That' can't POSSIBLY be right.")

Jesus would come back here and everybody would say "it's an Hoax"!!!!! People are still sceptic about anything that is out of this world and there are so many "new-age sects" that Jesus would pass for a guru like all other...

Amelia

Well, if he were here today, it would mean that he had returned as the Meshiach...so, he would be initiating a millenium of peace on Earth!

Originally posted by LadyV
What a cop out! "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven"... Oh it's good to be Christian in that way isn't it!? I have no problem with any positive religion as I feel that they are valid if one lives it the way they are interned. But I have a problem the way most Christians use the religion to be hateful and hurtful to others. Most of them look at it just like that, We're not perfect but we're forgiven. Yep...I can sin and do what I want cause I'll be forgiven.. what a load of BS. I can't understand why so many Christians want to use their bible as an excuse to be mean to others. You can ask me what makes me such an expert... Because I read, I study, and I learn. You should try it and it learn your own religion. I think the "not perfect, we're forgiven" remark was the perfect phrase to be brought up in this thread....it most defiantly shows the true mentality here.

you are full of venom, like a pharisee

Originally posted by Jazzerman
Historically speaking there is strong evidence that a Wiccan type of religion was the first to make an appearance on earth.

What evidence do you speak of? i would love to hear it.

Originally posted by LadyV
What a cop out! "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven"... Oh it's good to be Christian in that way isn't it!? I have no problem with any positive religion as I feel that they are valid if one lives it the way they are interned. But I have a problem the way most Christians use the religion to be hateful and hurtful to others. Most of them look at it just like that, We're not perfect but we're forgiven. Yep...I can sin and do what I want cause I'll be forgiven.. what a load of BS. I can't understand why so many Christians want to use their bible as an excuse to be mean to others. You can ask me what makes me such an expert... Because I read, I study, and I learn. You should try it and it learn your own religion. I think the "not perfect, we're forgiven" remark was the perfect phrase to be brought up in this thread....it most defiantly shows the true mentality here.

I personally sense a lot of hatred and anger in this post, as well as a lot of exaggerated claims "most" is used quite a bit, isn't it? Also, even though you state you "read and learn" alot, you sure do a great job of misrepresenting the Christian faith if you've actually studied it.

I think some one needs to take a tolerance pill and get happy about her own choices and stop being mean to people who have made other choices...that's my take on this.

Originally posted by Ashlar

Originally posted by Jazzerman
Historically speaking there is strong evidence that a Wiccan type of religion was the first to make an appearance on earth.

What evidence do you speak of? i would love to hear it.

There really is archaeological and anthropological evidence to back this up. Basically, what we find is that in small groups (the way humans first lived) the first "religion" is animism; a belief that there is a Force in everything. It is not the same thing as the Judaeo-Christian monotheism; it's more like the Star Wars concept of the Force and they feel very connected to the life force.

As groups become more structured and politics starts showing up, human groups start moving toward an "official priest" and "official religion." The earliest civilizations that leave artifact evidence are all polytheistic -- as the Wiccan religion is. They all "borrow" gods from other areas (so we see in the Greeks, particularly, a borrowing of a number of the Egyptian gods and the Romans borrowing from the Greeks and Egyptians... and so forth.

Monotheism was a relatively late development. Even the American Indian religions that have a "great spirit" are more polytheistic and anamistic than they are similar to Christianity.

I understand that the primitive religions where polytheistic

But i still have trouble in seeing the connection between the paganism of the ancient times, to the paganism of modern day

what i mean by this, is that (for example) wicca professes to have alot of respect for nature (not to harm animals) and has alot of other idealistic rules that the ancient polytheistic religions did not follow whatsoever

What therefore is the connection between (for example) the egyptian cult, and wiccans of today (apart from being polytheist).

I have trouble seeing wicca as an uninterrupted religion dating back thousands of years

Originally posted by Ashlar

Originally posted by Jazzerman
Historically speaking there is strong evidence that a Wiccan type of religion was the first to make an appearance on earth.

What evidence do you speak of? i would love to hear it.

Ashlar...If you would have read my posts completely I have already offered some evidence, and Byrd pointed some out as well.

jazzerman

show me an uninterupted cohesive religion, and i will say you are correct,

but all you have is a couple of ancient statuettes of a female, and from that you claim that wicca existed 7000 years ago.

complete rubbish in my opinion.

i see no direct connection between the ancient cults (greek, egyptian, babylonian, ect) and todays new age concoctions of old gods and new ideologies