The "I Told You So" Thread You May Never Read!

In your second paragraph 'OP' you said Quote:


Personally, I dont believe in any doomsday or apocalyptic events, but I do believe something will happen that lies between apocalypse and sentimental newage nothingness, something in the middle. It frustrates me when people say nothing will happen at all, and that nothing will ever happen at all, and etc, yet how long have all of us been here on this planet for? probably no more than a few decades if any. Some folks say, "it is arrogant and foolish to believe something will happen." I am saying then it is arrogant and foolish to believe something wont happen. So many cultures, ancient cultures that is, have put significance on this date, deep down many of us feel something about that date, something unusual not felt before. How many thousands of years, even hundreds of years have we lived on this planet to say by experience nothing will happen? Few of us are even that old at all really, from what I gather our age ranges from 20-60, so thats not a whole lot of experience on earth to know for a fact Dec 21st will just be another day.



Well something kind of turned on a 'light' for me........

How come if all these OLD civilizations could make these predictions and have later generations feel they were valid, why then, Modern Man with all our instruments, telescopes, Hubble, state of the art computers, Physics, Quantum Mechanics, Astrophysicists and all, .......why haven't we done likewise. We surely should have discovered a universal truth or prophecy intended to warn future generations. Something concrete.?? One day we will be the 'Ancients' , a lost civilization.

Originally posted by NorEaster
Well, the "evolving" narrative sounds very familiar. That much is pretty clear. I'm not surprised that the event criteria has become increasingly amorphous, with subjective metrics, like "shifting consciousness" replacing global catastrophe among the more educated among the Dec 21, 2012 adherents. By the time Dec 22nd hits, the "event" will be described as a slow progression that has an open ended resolution date that only those who have become enlightened will be capable of realizing. That followed by a slew of videos and books designed to teach people how to realize the benefits of this slow-mo transformation.

Rinse-repeat. Yeah, I do know the game you guys play.

No. However I am used to your misinterpretations and misrepresentations (as you have again advertised in here).

Best.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


I have to agree with a lot of your post. I was just talking today that for the next two days here in South East Ohio it is going to be 70. 70 on Dec 3rd and 4th. Average high temp is 40-44

I also agree with OP with the whole thread. Something will happen and really I do not care what people say or think about my belief for that day. With the things happen around the world and temps being close to 30 degrees off where I live something has to be going on.Yep, it is just a feeling and I learned a long time ago to trust that inner voice.I do agree we will awake on the 22nd but the world as we know it will be different in some way. Yep, for the record I am a prepper. Not so many weeks ago we had a bad storm here and most were without power for 5 or more days. We were lucky and were out for 12hours with the first storm and the 26 hours with the storm that came through the second day. We were fine and had good food, light and thankfully air. I am ready for whatever may happen.

USA Today: Newly discovered Mayan calendar goes way past 2012

usatoday30.usatoday.com...

Something already has happened... it has caused some people, believers or not, to think about their mortal future. I myself do not think the end of the world is at hand... but it has made some people pause and think.

Well, even seemingly circumstantial evidence should get a nod? Can anybody verify the below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The October 1981 issue of the German magazine Stimme des Glaubens reported on a discussion that Pope John Paul II had with a select group of German Catholics, in November of 1980. The following is a verbatim report of the discussion:1

Text of the Published Report

The Holy Father was asked, "What about the Third Secret of Fatima? Should it not have already been published by 1960?"

Pope John Paul II replied: "Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.

"On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this: if there is a message in which it is written that the oceans will flood whole areas of the earth, and that from one moment to the next millions of people will perish, truly the publication of such a message is no longer something to be so much desired."

The Pope continued: "Many wish to know simply from curiosity and a taste for the sensational, but they forget that knowledge also implies responsibility. They only seek the satisfaction of their curiosity, and that is dangerous if at the same time they are not disposed to do something, and if they are convinced that it is impossible to do anything against evil."

At this point the Pope grasped a Rosary and said: "Here is the remedy against this evil. Pray, pray, and ask for nothing more. Leave everything else to the Mother of God."

The Holy Father was then asked: "What is going to happen to the Church?"

He answered: "We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ … With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong and prepared, and trust in Christ and His Mother, and be very, very assiduous in praying the Rosary."

reply to post by Apollumi


well i certainly don't have old german magazines laying around to verify it, but it is very interesting indeed and they still haven't said what the 3rd secret was.. have they now?

oh edit # i just looked it up it was released in 2000...

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fátima, on 13 May 1917. I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine. After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

reply to post by jough626


It's an assumption because the Mayan said that at the end of the other the "worlds" (calendars) that ended, it was the end of the people/beings of this world, before the new world was made with new people/beings. It always ended in disasters and the end of life, however they were not alive at the time of the last calendar.

Grand Mayan Elder "Wandering Wolf"

"We are lost to the correct date"

The Mayans have never said that the world is going to end in 2012, in fact, they have been saying the exact opposite. Watch at 2:20 if you dont have enough time..

OP, I am an agnostic skeptic who also believes in unconditional human love. So both my analytical and my philosophical stances would not allow me to say "I told you so," or call you a "nut job." A skeptic does not make assertions without proof (which includes saying "nothing will happen,") and someone who tries to practice unconditional love for others does not go around insulting people.

No one wants something to happen more than I do. They may want it just as much, but they certainly don't want it more. As I recently stated in a topic accusing ET visitation non-believers and skeptics of "not wanting to believe," there is a very significant part of my being that will never find contentment, happiness, or peace, until I get to experience something truly transformational, paranormal, supernatural, transcendental, or otherworldly. I think many who delve into such subject matter have at their core a deeply seeded need and desire to experience such phenomena, no matter how skeptical they are of their reality. So believe me (no pun intended,) I want something to happen. And without proof to that effect, I cannot assert that "nothing will." And if it does, I will neither deny it nor criticize it. I will simply experience it, and probably find a level of fulfillment I never could otherwise.

BUT...

If it doesn't, while I'm sure there will be some "I told you so" topics, what I will be saying is, "let us learn from this experience." That doesn't mean condescending and judging those who believed fervently that something would happen or calling them out for ridicule. It does mean looking critically at our thinking, behavior, desires, biases, and psychology, and how they influence people's beliefs. It means looking at the exceedingly long history of failed predictions, prophecies, and foretellings on ATS (and around the web and world,) seeing 2012 as yet another of them, and recognizing that perhaps we would all benefit from taking things with a larger grain of salt than many do at present. See the "Taking Things With a Grain of Salt" topic in my signature for an example of what I might say post-December 21st if nothing happens. Not insulting. Not saying "I told you so." Just, "lets really look at this and learn from it." And that's the attitude I hope most people will hold to, rather than attacking people.

I will also be making a topic for those who may experience the kind of deep, potentially devastating disillusionment that the shattering of a core belief can provoke, and offering my ear to those who need or want to talk about such feelings. As someone who had his world view shattered in the past, I know what disillusionment can do to a person. Many see it as a natural and good thing, but there are those who can suffer considerably as a result, and I think we as a community dedicated to such subject matter have a responsibility - or at least the capability - to be there for one another as human beings experiencing something so potentially disillusioning if it turns out that way.

There is no reason for outright hostility and consternation between people who ultimately are all here for the same reason: to discover the truth, and to find fellow seekers of the truth who accept and mutually respect one another.

Peace.

reply to post by honested3


So in a nutshell this is just another thread that screams, "I don't know what is going to happen because it has not happened yet!"

Ancient cultures couldn't see the future.

reply to post by anon29


everything I posted is sound and is from VERY reputable sources. But hey if you say some new age cultish site is the way to go then fine. I am a shill trying to stop the hype I created over 2012...

You guys all deserve each other...

Good luck the day after....reality sucks.

reply to post by honested3


I have a legitimate prediction for 21/12/2012 & it is this on that date the working week will end !! then 2 days later a new week may start as per usual......lets see if im right? LOL

This sounds like a thread to try and save face when nothing happens :/

reply to post by honested3


Great job s&f for you sir!
This is how I see it, the time has come for everyone to decide weather they are on Humanities side? (abolish the current system of debt and money, free every human from starvation, war, and religion)

OR are you on the side of our Banker OverLords? (er-day life...)

I really really hope people realize we have to BE THE CHANGE WE WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
My point is this date Dec 21 is a chance to start over if you will, a rebirth a fresh new look on life and living it with a smile and open heart. That is what I plan on doing anyways.
To the rest of you still bickering over meaningless details i am afraid if y'all don't see the light as they say you will remain "stuck" in this lower chakra vibration world....good luck with that.

reply to post by honested3


One of the things that is very possible for that day, or around that date is a large war. Large as in Israel attacking Iran, and then Russia, China, NK, Syria, etc siding with Iran, Japan, U.S.A., England siding with Israel. Something along those lines, since according to the real prophecies on that date part of what will happen is that the Mayan god, Bolon Yokte, associated with war and creation will descend from the heavens as we finish this Baktun and enter into the next. We are on the 13th Baktun and on December 21st we enter the 14th Baktun.

There are also the HOPI prophecies which say that if during this time frame people are not ready to be in harmony with nature those who are not ready will not survive, and literally those not ready will go crazy and die.

More than likely nothing will happen EXACTLY on December 21st, and it will be just the date of the transit from one baktun into the next.

But what people need to realize, and put together is everything that is happening.

1.The Earth's magnetic field is now weaker than it has been in over 400,000-700,000 years.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/750fc3934f0e.jpg[/atsimg]

The more to the left the graph gets the closer to the present it is. The red points of data above are showing the strength in the weakening fluctuation the Earth's magnetic field has been experiencing.

...
Scientists say earth's magnetic field is weakening and could all but disappear in as little as 500 years as a precursor to flipping upside down.

It has happened before - the geological record suggests the magnetic field has reversed every 250,000 years, meaning that, with the last event 800,000 years ago, another would seem to be overdue.

"Magnetic north has migrated more than 1,500 kilometres over the past century," said Conall Mac Niocaill, an earth scientist at Oxford University. "In the past 150 years, the strength of the magnetic field has lessened by 10 percent, which could indicate a reversal is on the cards."

While the effects are hard to predict, the consequences may be enormous. The loss of the magnetic field on Mars billions of years ago put paid to life on the planet if there ever was any, scientists say.

Mac Niocaill said Mars probably lost its magnetic field 3.5-4.0 billion years ago, based on observations that rocks in the planet's southern hemisphere have magnetisation.
...

www.reuters.com...

2. Because of the weakening magnetic field of Earth large breaches are occurring which allow the Earth in those regions where the breaches open to be bombarded more than usual by the Sun, and other sources outside the Solar System.

A Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field
12.16.2008

Dec. 16, 2008: NASAs five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earths magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.

"At first I didn't believe it," says THEMIS project scientist David Sibeck of the Goddard Space Flight Center. "This finding fundamentally alters our understanding of the solar wind-magnetosphere interaction."
...

science.nasa.gov...

A Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field
12.16.2008

Dec. 16, 2008: NASA's five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth's magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.
...
"The opening was huge—four times wider than Earth itself," says Wenhui Li, a space physicist at the University of New Hampshire who has been analyzing the data. Li's colleague Jimmy Raeder, also of New Hampshire, says "1027 particles per second were flowing into the magnetosphere—that's a 1 followed by 27 zeros. This kind of influx is an order of magnitude greater than what we thought was possible."

The event began with little warning when a gentle gust of solar wind delivered a bundle of magnetic fields from the Sun to Earth.
....
The size of the breach took researchers by surprise. "We've seen things like this before," says Raeder, "but never on such a large scale. The entire day-side of the magnetosphere was open to the solar wind."
...

science.nasa.gov...

Earth's Magnetic Field Weakens 10 Percent
By Andrew Bridges
Associated Press
posted: 03:25 pm ET
12 December 2003

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- The strength of the Earths magnetic field has decreased 10 percent over the past 150 years, raising the remote possibility that it may collapse and later reverse, flipping the planets poles for the first time in nearly a million years, scientists said Thursday.

At that rate of decline, the field could vanish altogether in 1,500 to 2,000 years, said Jeremy Bloxham of Harvard University.
...
Such a lull could still have significant effects, especially in regions where the weakening is most pronounced.

Over the southern Atlantic Ocean, a continued weakening of the magnetic field has diminished the shielding effect it has locally in protecting the Earth from the natural radiation that bombards our planet from space, scientists said.

As a result, satellites in low-Earth orbit are left vulnerable to that radiation as they pass over the region, known as the South Atlantic anomaly.

Among the satellites that have fallen prey to the harmful effects was a Danish satellite designed, ironically, to measure the Earth's magnetic field, Bloxham said.

The weakening -- if coupled with a subsequently large influx of radiation in the form of protons streaming from the sun -- can also affect the chemistry of the atmosphere, said Charles Jackman of NASAs Goddard Space Flight Center.

That can lead to significant but temporary losses of atmospheric ozone, he said.
....

www.space.com...


3. The entire Solar System is moving into a new region of the Local Fluff which is much hotter than the region we are in, and as it is we have been encountering localized regions of the cloud which have been affecting the Sun and every planet in the Solar System. Part of what has happened is that we have been encountering more and more interstellar dust, as well as the radiation in the Solar System has increased to highs not seen at least since the time we have been observing space weather.

December 23, 2009: The solar system is passing through an interstellar cloud that physics says should not exist. In the Dec. 24th issue of Nature, a team of scientists reveal how NASAs Voyager spacecraft have solved the mystery.

science.nasa.gov...

Like a wounded Starship Enterprise, our solar system's natural shields are faltering, letting in a flood of cosmic rays. The sun's recent listlessness is resulting in record-high radiation levels that pose a hazard to both human and robotic space missions.

Galactic cosmic rays are speeding charged particles that include protons and heavier atomic nuclei. They come from outside the solar system, though their exact sources are still being debated.

www.newscientist.com...


Scientists at least since 1978 already knew that as we would be entering this cloud, and once we were inside, the cloud would cause dramatic changes on Earth's weather and climate. It was thought at first we would encounter this new cloud within 10,000-50,000 years, until recent research suggests that within the next 100 eyars we will be well within the cloud.

Title:
Is the solar system entering a nearby interstellar cloud
Authors:
Vidal-Madjar, A.; Laurent, C.; Bruston, P.; Audouze, J.
Affiliation:
AA(CNRS, Laboratoire de Physique Stellaire et Planetaire, Verrieres-le-Buisson, Essonne, France), AB(CNRS, Laboratoire de Physique Stellaire et Planetaire, Verrieres-le-Buisson, Essonne, France), AC(CNRS, Laboratoire de Physique Stellaire et Planetaire, Verrieres-le-Buisson, Essonne, France), AD(Meudon Observatoire, Hauts-de-Seine; Paris XI, Universite, Orsay, Essonne, France)
Publication:
Astrophysical Journal, Part 1, vol. 223, July 15, 1978, p. 589-600. (ApJ Homepage)
Publication Date:
07/1978
Category:
Astrophysics
Origin:
STI
NASA/STI Keywords:
...
Abstract
...
Observational arguments in favor of such a cloud are presented, and implications of the presence of a nearby cloud are discussed, including possible changes in terrestrial climate. It is suggested that the postulated interstellar cloud should encounter the solar system at some unspecified time in the near future and might have a drastic influence on terrestrial climate in the next 10,000 years.

adsabs.harvard.edu...

Tracking Down Abrupt Climate Changes: Rapid Natural Cooling Occurred 12,700 Years Ago

ScienceDaily (Aug. 4, 2008) — Researchers in Germany, Switzerland, and the United States have shown, for the first time, that an extremely fast climate change occurred in Western Europe. This took place long before human-made changes in the atmosphere, and is causatively associated with a sudden change in the wind systems.
...
The proof of an extreme cooling within a short number of years 12,700 years ago was attained in sediments of the volcanic lake Meerfelder Maar in the Eifel region of Germany. The seasonally layered deposits allow to precisely determine the rate of climate change. With a novel combination of microscopic research studies and modern geochemical scanner procedures, the scientists were able to successfully reconstruct the climatic conditions even for individual seasons. In particular, the changes in the wind force and direction during the winter half-year caused the climate to topple over into a completely different mode within one year after a short instable phase of a few decades.
...

www.sciencedaily.com...


I mean C'MON... What is happening is EXACTLY what the Mayans/Hopi and other ancient cultures have been explaining would happen around this time...

So those people who claim "nothing will happen in this timeframe" are just IGNORANT sorry to say.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Danowski

 

The Mayan Calendar only had 260 days, not 360. If you need to correct people, correct them right.

If you plan to correct someone do it right. There were at least 7 Mayan calendars. The 260 day one you refer to was not a solar calendar. The Mayans had a 365 day calendar. It had 360 days in it plus 5 extra days appended to the end of the calendar. The solar calendar was the Haab. The 260 day calendar was the Tzolkin. The long count was a count of days. It was not a solar calendar.

Tzolkin, sounds an awful lot like Tolkien when pronounced in mayan... Quick, 2012-ers unite, we must scour the great Messiah's literary works for clues as to what will happen on our glorious date.

We can start with the cover of " The Hobbit"



The Runes are the cypher key, now go through his works using the clues you discern from the runes, and you will come to the answer.

Here you'll need this.

reply to post by wrdwzrd


Just because this guy is of Mayan descent does not give him any special insight into the ancient Maya. This person and many of his "Mayan associates" are simply parroting the claims of new agers from the US.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The sun is not in one of its active states. The "galactic cloud" might be normal. We may have been going through these things since the dawn of our species and before the advent of the technology to see so.

No other culture described this date. You say the Hopi mentioned this date?....Show me their calendar or how you guesstimated that they spoke about this year and this month.

The earth's magnetic field fluctuates. Your own post shows that. It has before. So before we measured it, how do you think it affected us? Looks like life is still here.

I wish people would use their heads instead of just "hoping" something happens. If people aren't scared enough to motivate you to curb your enthusiasm, then just think to how irresponsible it is to urge people that something will happen using nothing but a documented internet hoax perpetrated by dangerous cults.

Do some research into the actual phenomena, you are good at that right? Then see for yourself what many reputable sources say originated the 2012 hoax. That would be the honest thing to do instead of looking for sites that support your idea, to which equally cool looking tables and graphs can be found showing how normal it all is.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

I mean C'MON... What is happening is EXACTLY what the Mayans/Hopi and other ancient cultures have been explaining would happen around this time...

So those people who claim "nothing will happen in this timeframe" are just IGNORANT sorry to say.

The Mayans were concerned with unmanned spacecraft issues? Is that the sort of ludicrous nonsense being offered now?

Can you show us any evidence whatsoever that the Mayans knew about magnetism?
Can you show us any evidence at all that the Hopi prophecies are anything but a modern story?

And what does the single reference to 2012 actually discuss? It discusses a ceremony in which Bolon Yokte’ K’uh is adorned. Why? Because the god is the god of period endings and war. A ceremony marks the end of the baktun by placing a rope around the neck of a statue.
haecceities.wordpress.com...