Evangelist Lives As Gay Man For 1 Year In Hopes Of Changing His Mind.

reply to post by Renegade2283

you are OK with people being homosexual as long as they don't also practice the "lifestyle"?

No, it is more likely that someone does not want to have such things forced on them and their children through Statist policies such as this one:

Governor Jerry Brown of California just signed INTO LAW a bill which requires schools to teach a curriculum of “gay” history. All public institutions that want to receive federal funding must enthusiastically (yes, that’s mandated) educate the children- from kindergarten through 12th grade- about the men and women in American history who were gay or bisexual.

looktruenorth.com...


This agenda may have come about as a genuine desire to make it more acceptable to the general populace through force, or it may stem from a deeper agenda which comes from the Communist desire to undermine the family unit, which Marxists perceive is the basis for "bourgeois Capitalism".
Perhaps it is some of both.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Wrong, we do not all agree. I think your viewpoint is more intolerant than his. You seem to think everyone should accept homosexuality as being "ok". I flat out think and feel to the very core of my heart and soul it is wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting, and outright depraved.

Today's society has become far too accepting, and in fact actually condones and pushes immorality upon the masses in my opinion. The things I myself have done such as lust after multiple women are also immoral. But at least they are "naturally" immoral. Homosexuality is clearly not in line with nature. We were not designed that way. Anything trying to say we are/were is a lie. That is my belief. Having said all of this, even though I hate and despise homosexual activity, I do not in any way, shape, form, or fashion despise or hate gay people simply as people. I simply feel that in the same way I shouldnt walk around advertising my lustful feelings for women, neither should gays. I especially feel they should not present this as "normal" to children.

The entire conversation can become long and drawn out, but the main point is that I do feel people should be able to not accept homosexuality without being blasted and called "homophobic" for it. Im not "scared of gay people at all, so no, I'm far from homophobic. I simply do not believe homosexuality is a good thing. The few people born with severely abnormal hormones, I can understand and accept that. But people who say "I was born gay", and there is nothing physiologically different about them, I think they have a spiritual sickness and simply refuse to confront it.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus

In this day and age, how can people be so ignorant?

Ok so I'm dumb if I don't like gays? or more accurately, I am dumb if YOU think I don't like gays?

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
It even goes beyond ignorance, all the way to stupidity in my opinion.

Yep. seems so.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Being homosexual or heterosexual is NOT a choice.

Okay Dad.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
You cannot convert someone who is homosexual into a heterosexual, or vice-versa. That is just not how biology operates. The many examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves that man is not the only animal that engages in such behavior.

So we should all be like my dog and just have sex with whoever and whatever we want? Okay, so now we ARE a society of rapists.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
People who are straight are attracted to the opposite sex, and this occurs on a primal level, and there is absolutely nothing the person can do to change that primal reaction. The same is true for a gay person. They are attracted to the same sex with the same primal instinct, which does not leave them with a choice. Anyone who says that a gay person should simply engage in relations with the opposite sex, despite the fact that they are not attracted to them, is cruel. Imagine yourself engaging in relations with the same sex, and you will have an idea as to how gay people feel about heterosexuality. It is just gross to them, the same as it is for straight people.

You'll hear the same argument from pedophiles that they are attracted to a set age group... but there is nothing wrong with that right? I'm not saying homosexuals are on the same playing field as pedos, just pointing out your logic fails.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
So please stop the ignorance if you hate gay people, or think that they have any choice in the matter whatsoever. You should educate yourself on biology, genetics, instinct, etc, as then maybe you will grasp the scientific concept of attraction. And it is all based on science. And the religious people who look down on homosexuals, I have something to say to you as well.

I don't believe I ever said or indicated I hate gays, you put those words in my mouth. you also then said I was stupid to do so?.. okay..

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
You claim the Bible says man should not lie with man,

Umm, go get one and read it, it's pretty clear.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
but the Bible also says and eye for an eye. That does not mean that is what your religion teaches, as I'm assuming most are Christians. Too many people take the Bible out of context, because they read a simple verse or passage and think that is God's word, or the teachings of their religion. This is NOT the case by any means. How people are so ignorant is beyond me. Any person who claims to be a Christian, yet looks down on gay people, better stop and repent lest they go to hell. I am not saying this based on what I believe, but on what they themselves believe. See I know all about Christianity, and I am telling you that if you are Christian, you should not be judging ANYONE for ANY reason whatsoever, because that judgment will be visited back on you tenfold.

Did you even read my post? Again you're calling me and another Christians ignorant. and you are obviously ignorant of what I had said.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Jesus taught not only tolerance, but also said that the second most important commandment was to love your neighbor. In context, "neighbor" means every single person you interact with, read about, hear about, etc. Anyone and everyone. I am reminded of those people from the Westboro Baptist Church. Every single on of them, based on their own beliefs, will likely go to hell...The exact fate they are claiming others will suffer, as these church members judge them. They forget that Jesus talked about the speck of sawdust in the person's eye whom you are judging, while you yourself have an entire plank, or board, in your own eye.

So you're teaching Christianity now? and in the same paragraph lumping me in with westboro nuts? Awesome.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Now I am not "preaching" because I think everyone will listen.

Yes, you are, and you're the pot that calls the kettle black.

Originally posted by Renegade2283
reply to post by CalebRight14

 

I think your quoting is all messed up here. I was trying to read it but it was all jumbled up, so I recommend you fix that. Just put *[ quote ]* (remove spaces) before what the person you are relying to said, then put the same thing except with a */* before the *quote* at the end of their statements. Do that for each of the statements made by them and walla.

edit on 3-12-2012 by Renegade2283 because: (no reason given)

ETA: Sorry for going off-topic here mods but I was just trying to help this poster reform their post.

edit on 3-12-2012 by Renegade2283 because: (no reason given)

I don't need your help to format quotes, thank you though.

I'm really not trying to be rude with you, I simply don't think you really read my post or understand where I'm coming from. I have nothing against homosexuals, I was just providing my point of view, as Tenth asked when he asked for thoughts. If anything I'd say I helped because I posted in his topic.

reply to post by CalebRight14

I fail to see why this makes the guy brave or courageous. I also am not overly fond of presenting this in a way that seems to be saying that all Christians are plagued with an attitude of self righteousness. According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, you can't really argue that point. You can either believe this is true, or not. But that is not the same as saying gay people are inherently less moral than anyone else. Everyone commits sins, daily. You cannot not sin, it it's in our nature, and there is just no getting around it. The Bible clearly states all have sinned. Simply because it specifically mentions homosexuality as a sin certainly doesn't make them more sinful or some such.

Then you'll have to explain why it is that homosexuals are treated as terribly as they are among most evangelical and far right wing religious folk. It seems to me, that some sins in the eyes of Christianity, certainly does make one better or worse than the other.

Despite me being unimpressed with this man or his actions, your last sentence is well said. But did this guy actually hate homosexuals? No I don't know that I would say that. His perhaps misguided desire was to do what he thought would save their souls. Hardly what you would expect from a hatemonger.

I find that also hard to believe. He stated clearly, that he thought, with every fiber of his being that ALL homosexuals for AIDS carrying pedophiles. I don't know about you, but when I think somebody is a pedophile, or know somebody is, my dislike for them is pretty on par with hate.

You cannot, under any circumstances say things like:

" I think homosexuality is a deviant, sexual behavior that is perverse and will wind you in hell."

And not be considered hateful. If you'd like to think of yourself as just being a good Christian, or something like that, that's fine. But you aren't being honest with yourself and those who can understand and process the words you are using and put them into context, know this as well.

~Tenth

Originally posted by Jameliel
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Wrong, we do not all agree. I think your viewpoint is more intolerant than his. You seem to think everyone should accept homosexuality as being "ok". I flat out think and feel to the very core of my heart and soul it is wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting, and outright depraved.

Today's society has become far too accepting, and in fact actually condones and pushes immorality upon the masses in my opinion. The things I myself have done such as lust after multiple women are also immoral. But at least they are "naturally" immoral. Homosexuality is clearly not in line with nature. We were not designed that way. Anything trying to say we are/were is a lie. That is my belief. Having said all of this, even though I hate and despise homosexual activity, I do not in any way, shape, form, or fashion despise or hate gay people simply as people. I simply feel that in the same way I shouldnt walk around advertising my lustful feelings for women, neither should gays. I especially feel they should not present this as "normal" to children.

The entire conversation can become long and drawn out, but the main point is that I do feel people should be able to not accept homosexuality without being blasted and called "homophobic" for it. Im not "scared of gay people at all, so no, I'm far from homophobic. I simply do not believe homosexuality is a good thing. The few people born with severely abnormal hormones, I can understand and accept that. But people who say "I was born gay", and there is nothing physiologically different about them, I think they have a spiritual sickness and simply refuse to confront it.

How can you say you don't hate gays when you are saying that the very nature of who they are is "wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting and outright depraved"?? What you are really saying is, you don't hate gays as long as they pretend to be straight.

Being gay is how some people were designed, so for them it IS natural and normal. Just like being left-handed is how some people were designed, so for them it is natural and normal. If two gays wanted to have a loving, meaningful long-term relationship, how can that possibly be considered a spiritual sickness?

reply to post by CalebRight14

You'll hear the same argument from pedophiles that they are attracted to a set age group... but there is nothing wrong with that right? I'm not saying homosexuals are on the same playing field as pedos, just pointing out your logic fails.

Do you understand logic?

I can hardly blame pedo's for being attracted to children, but I do blame them for acting on it.

The big difference is is that homosexuality is,

-it's consentual
-it's usually between adults
-there are no victims that get emotionally scarred
-it is perfectly acceptable, legally and morally, cause it doesn't involve abuse of children.

Knowing all this, and using logic, I can only conclude that your comment is very indicative of the way your "logic" works.

Equating homosexuality with pedophilia even though you say you are not.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Because god said so. Err because its just not natural you know? Err just because.

There is no satisfactory answer you will get. I think this will need modding again very soon. Use it as an intolerance indicator. =) =)

(i hope someone gets it...)

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Jameliel


You cannot claim to not hate gay people when you refer to them as:

wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting, and outright depraved.

Those are not light hearted words and although they are your opinion and your belief, they are hateful in nature. You choose to judge ALL people who identify as homosexual by the terms you outlined above.

You claim that they have a spiritual sickness, yet claim not to have anything against gay people? That logic just doesn't hold up, I'm sorry.

Your argument seems to be religious in nature as well according to your text, although I could be mistaken. If that's the case, then again, you cannot claim that you hold no ill will against Homosexuals when you use the rhetoric in your post.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Tenth, I think it is obvious they can do exactly that. They have done it for a few pages now.

That doesn't mean its logical or based on reality. But they have most certainly done it, and will continue to do it.

I really don't understand why everyone thinks that Christians, especially evangelical ones hate homosexuals. I mean, we (as a majority) may not agree with the lifestyle they choose to live, but still love them just the same. I will call sin for what it is, whether it is a lie, theft, hate, murder, or sexual acts deemed immoral. We are all guilty of something, and cannot cast judgement.

reply to post by igniterevolution


You don't understand and never will probably.

It is not a sin, and the fact that you would put it in the same sentence as theft and lies, hate and muder is just insulting and could be considered hatefull, were it not that most of YOU PEOPLE don't even realise what jerks, and how annoying and meddling you are.

Another person's sexlife and preference is not business for you to be judging, and frankly, I wonder about what drives people like you to go out of their way to condemn another person's personal business.

I don't think anybody else cares about your monthly 1.5 min. missionary positioning session, so why do you care about others?

Originally posted by charles1952

What this is teaching me is that it just isn't safe to talk to homosexuals about their experiences. They seem quick to condemn and to reject serious attempts by others to learn. They may have reason to be over-sensitive, but I tend to stay away from snapping turtles.

Of course, if I'm misinterpreting, I'd like to be set straight.

"They"..."we"...are all the same to you?

Please do not confuse "us" for some sort of super organism with one mind...

We are all individuals. Some of us are still sheep, following society's preconceived notions of how we are supposed to look and act, some people are just like that. Some of us get along fine with Christians, others are no more tolerant of Evangelicals than they are of us.

Nothing irritates me more than being painted with such broad strokes.

I applaud the man's efforts to understand the gay experience, he stepped out of his comfort zone and took a look from the other sides point of view, which happens far too rarely. He can never get the full picture of course, without living his entire life as a homosexual but that's a bit too much to ask of him.

reply to post by Glass

Dear Glass,

Thank you very much for that correction, I was wrong to try to describe the situation in those terms. And I am sincerely sorry for causing you, and anyone else, such irritation.

May I try to explain what I meant?

If some one tells me they are a strong supporter of "Candidate X," I will probably try to steer the conversation to a non-political subject, even before I know what they are like, or what they want to talk about. Let me see the large campaign button in their lapel, and I know what to do about it.

Now, not everyone with such a button is going to be a pain in the anatomy, but enough are so that it doesn't look like a smart bet anymore.

In this thread, and in the area I live in, I've seen more metaphorical "Candidate Rainbow" lapel buttons, and the odds are increasing to the point where someday it won't be a good bet to talk to people wearing such a button about their feelings, lifestyle, goals, or anything related to sex or rights.

For whatever reasons, a decent portion of the "Community" appears almost eager to condemn, criticize, and attack. In my eyes we're getting to the point where the odds aren't any good, and it's becoming a game I don't care to participate in.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by sputniksteve

 

You cannot prove a negative. It is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. There is no arguing this, it is set in stone, period.

Thank you for proving my point. It is only your opinion that God does not exist. You clearly cannot prove this opinion.

Well I can't exactly "prove" that the guy sitting by himself at the back of the bus isn't actually having a conversation with an invisible person but me and pretty much everyone else on the bus with him still think he's a nut. And chances are so would you.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Then you'll have to explain why it is that homosexuals are treated as terribly as they are among most evangelical and far right wing religious folk. It seems to me, that some sins in the eyes of Christianity, certainly does make one better or worse than the other.

I do? Why? I thought I already answered that question from a Biblical viewpoint. Can we refrain from terms like far right wing? I simply believe people should take care of themselves. I don't see that as far anything.

I am sorry if this has been you're experience with Christians. They are not thinking.. At least as I see it. They themselves commit sins on an hourly basis if you believe the Bible, you know you cannot be faultless in accordance with Gods' word. It's just not possible, your mind betrays you.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Despite me being unimpressed with this man or his actions, your last sentence is well said. But did this guy actually hate homosexuals? No I don't know that I would say that. His perhaps misguided desire was to do what he thought would save their souls. Hardly what you would expect from a hatemonger.

I find that also hard to believe. He stated clearly, that he thought, with every fiber of his being that ALL homosexuals for AIDS carrying pedophiles. I don't know about you, but when I think somebody is a pedophile, or know somebody is, my dislike for them is pretty on par with hate.

You cannot, under any circumstances say things like:

" I think homosexuality is a deviant, sexual behavior that is perverse and will wind you in hell."

And not be considered hateful. If you'd like to think of yourself as just being a good Christian, or something like that, that's fine. But you aren't being honest with yourself and those who can understand and process the words you are using and put them into context, know this as well.

~Tenth

Perhaps he did hate homosexuals, I don't know what was really in his heart, I'm simply speaking from mine. I believe it's a sin because I believe the Bible(take that at face value). But I don't know anyone who is sinless. I certainty don't think Homosexuals are worse than myself morally. Pride cometh before fall and whatnot. True Christians are more about tolerance and less about finding fault. You could make the argument that Homosexuality is not something that should be tolerated, but something that should be accepted. That is a different argument though

Originally posted by kaylaluv
How can you say you don't hate gays when you are saying that the very nature of who they are is "wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting and outright depraved"?? What you are really saying is, you don't hate gays as long as they pretend to be straight.

Then Christians hate themselves, I already answered this. The Bible is Clear, everyone falls short... EVERYONE.

Originally posted by XPowner

Do you understand logic?

Yes, just not yours'.

reply to post by CalebRight14

Yes, just not yours'.

The fact that that's all you have to say in return, agian indicates that you don't understand logic.

My explanation was perfectly clear, and nothing can refute it, hence the silence and the cop out "smart remark"

Perhaps he did hate homosexuals, I don't know what was really in his heart, I'm simply speaking from mine. I believe it's a sin because I believe the Bible(take that at face value). But I don't know anyone who is sinless. I certainty don't think Homosexuals are worse than myself morally. Pride cometh before fall and whatnot. True Christians are more about tolerance and less about finding fault. You could make the argument that Homosexuality is not something that should be tolerated, but something that should be accepted. That is a different argument though

You believe homosexuality is a sin. So you believe it is a choice?

Do you feel atracted to men? Do you have a sex drive? Do you ever have sex? Does that make you a sinner?

Imagine a person having that same sex drive, only it is focused on a member of the same gender, and this is just his or her nature.

Mmm, how to explain this in child's terms,mmm, I know, God, created them like this.

So are they sinners for acting upon their sex drive like you would?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Jameliel

 

You cannot claim to not hate gay people when you refer to them as:

wrong, immoral, unnatural, disgusting, and outright depraved.

Those are not light hearted words and although they are your opinion and your belief, they are hateful in nature. You choose to judge ALL people who identify as homosexual by the terms you outlined above.

You claim that they have a spiritual sickness, yet claim not to have anything against gay people? That logic just doesn't hold up, I'm sorry.

Your argument seems to be religious in nature as well according to your text, although I could be mistaken. If that's the case, then again, you cannot claim that you hold no ill will against Homosexuals when you use the rhetoric in your post.

~Tenth

Tenth, I wanted to quote this in it's entirety because you yourself have a preconceived belief that all Christians are bad because they hate you for the sole fact you are Gay. It's a non factor for me. I think its a sin, but so is fantasizing about another woman, so is porn, so is drinking, or smoking , wearing a mini skirt, getting a breast augmentation, fighting, ect