Evangelist Lives As Gay Man For 1 Year In Hopes Of Changing His Mind.

reply to post by sputniksteve

Edit: Please don't think that I only have a problem with Christians. I have a problem with all religions.

Yes, that was evident when you lumped my Hindu avatar in with your judgement of Christians. You still haven't accounted for the secular humanist religion though.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


All the things I have typed out in the last 2 pages and you are nit picking these items as the ones to comment on? I didn't judge you by your avatar, I judged you by your words.

By the way, I am not a "liberal". I am not talking about schools or abortions or anything else but the man in this article and religion. It would be nice if you stay on topic.


Second edit: I am intolerant of religions ideas, you are correct. I have never said anything about tolerance or stereotyping or anything of the sort. I don't know why you are bringing this stuff up. I am intolerant of pedophiles and murderers too. When cheerleaders or baseball players start killing non-believers over their ideas I will be intolerant of them as well.

Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

All the things I have typed out in the last 2 pages and you are nit picking these items as the ones to comment on? I didn't judge you by your avatar, I judged you by your words.

By the way, I am not a "liberal". I am not talking about schools or abortions or anything else but the man in this article and religion. It would be nice if you stay on topic.

edit on 12/3/2012 by sputniksteve because: (no reason given)

Oh wait! So saying God does not exist is ON topic? Ok, again, you are doing exactly what so many people do, that is saying your opinion has value and tolerance but others opinions are "off topic". The topic was a Christian minister put himself in another person's shoes to develop personal compassion and you declare God does not exist. Lol way to be on topic!

Ok so you are not a liberal then, but you believe in secular humanism, which is a type of religion like it or not, as humanists themselves declared Humanism to be a faith based entirely on human opinions shifting in the sands of what is popular today.

I have another hint for you. Climate Change is also a kind of religious faith in that many of the proponents believe in the earth goddess Gaia and that humans are some kind of parasites, and they further still insist that their climate change science has a consensus, which is certainly not true and CAN be proven to not be true.

What we do know is that a Christian decided to put himself in another person's shoes to see how it feels, and that you personally have an opinion that his motive was impure and that you know this somehow, the same way Christians know there is a God.

I have never said anything about tolerance or stereotyping or anything of the sort. I don't know why you are bringing this stuff up. I am intolerant of pedophiles and murderers too.

You are quite right. It was unfair of me to assume you are liberal when you criticize a Christian minister and declare his motive impure. There are plenty of liberal Christians too, like Nancy Pelosi, who is "Catholic" and yet still believes in the right to abort life in the womb. There is also "Christian Socialism" and Marxist influence on the Church, though I would suggest that this is at the very least a dilution of the original teachings of Christ, whether a God exists or not.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


If you claim I am a liberal for not liking religion, what are you? I am just curious.

I think talking about the existance of God in a thread concerning an evangelical and gays is pretty pertinent. I think calling me a liberal and assuming I want to dictate what is taught in schools and that I am aborting children is not very pertinent.

I feel like you are ignoring the bulk of my comments in order to nit pick a few things you feel comfortable discussing but ignoring the rest because you are not sure how to discuss it.

I don't believe in God, I think religions are dangerous and are responsible for millions upon millions of deaths, and I think this guy in the article is a clown and his whole reason for doing this was much more selfish than anything else. That sums it up pretty much.

Again, what does climate change have to do with any of this? You assume I am on the GW bandwagon because you also assume I am liberal? Lol. Why would you even bring this up? I just don't get it.

reply to post by sputniksteve

If you claim I am a liberal for not liking religion, what are you? I am just curious.

Please see my edit of my previous post and my admittance that I assumed you a liberal for your intolerance of Christians.

I was really just trying to prove that people who are politically correct are not necessarily tolerant and compassionate, only that they think they are tolerant when they are just as intolerant of other people's opinions as they think Christians are of gay people.

But hey, maybe instead of using the term "liberal", I should substitute "Progressive", and "traditional" for "Christian".

Maybe the discussion makes more sense that way.

reply to post by sputniksteve

I don't believe in God, I think religions are dangerous and are responsible for millions upon millions of deaths,

Communism declared itself anti God and anti religion and even persecuted religious practitioners and members of the Church and the practice of communism itself is responsible both directly and indirectly for the deaths of Over 100 hundred million people, not including those who were imprisoned for political or religious reasons and sent to work in labor camps forcibly.

Here's a laink which breaks down some of the numbers

en.wikipedia.org...

Are we still on topic now with how many people you think religion has killed?

TOPIC REMINDER!!!!

Evangelist Lives As Gay Man For 1 Year In Hopes Of Changing His Mind.

Please stay on topic....that does not include bickering or personal asides better suited to u2u.

You are responsible for your own posts.

[temporarily closed so members can see this notice...]


Reopening...please know there will be consequences for further off topic and/or rude posts.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
As this man pointed out, before doing this he was convinced that all gays were HIV positive, liberal pedophiles.

Well there's the problem, right there. If that is what he thought then he was basing his opinion of gay people on an obnoxious ignorance. Not that he didn't agree with the lifestyle.

When will gay people start to stop mocking the church then, since the church is obviously full of cloaked pedophiles that have never seen a naked woman in their life.

Wait, another obnoxious ignorant opinion??

I'm not going for this live in another persons shoes, thing. I've seen it used in other areas and sure it makes all involved feel good inside. But it's always one sided. to show how 'bad' someone was before they 'changed' to see the light.

And it's Always one sided.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
Anthropologist have done this in the past as well and written books about their subjects. People didn't like it then either. IM not gay never will be, but this is complete bs to do to people who you are going to call "friends". Now if he went to the community and said hey peeps, IM completely straight and I think what you do is completely disgusting, but! id like to hang out with you for a year and try to get over my fears or at least understand this culture. IM pretty sure 90% would have said sure buddy come along more the merrier.

Exactly. If a heterosexual man were to say "All gays act like..." he'd be pounded into obscurity by the seething masses who'd froth at the bit to stop the hate.

But you can be an evangelical nut and pretend to be gay, and it's the best thing since wafers and wine.

How exactly does one act gay, if being gay is absolutely normal except for the naughty night times in bangkok?

I'm not sure you can - but then someone above posted 3 straight men who play gay characters. All campy, all over the top and all acting out a stereotype - so it must be possible.

If he'd been honest and done it sans 'undercover god botherer' mode, and they'd let him become involved in the gay scene and been honest with him, this would have been a lot better of a story.

Why oh Why cruel world do you continue to change the rules on us....

--oops forgot I split the post in 2. lol

At least my gay friends have no problem doing it. " hey a bunch of us having drinks later wanna come along, sure id love to sounds cool". Awesome to show up to a place called the "golden banana" for drinks BA$%^RDS!!! lol

Hahaha that's brilliant.

Originally posted by RobertF

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Isn't that the real Christianity?

It certainly sounds like something Jesus would do.

ALS

Wait, you are saying Jesus had gay sex, or that it should of?

Doesn't matter.

Jesus was nailed by a group of guys, in the end...

reply to post by winofiend


I made the same point earlier although it got lost. Homosexuality isn't defined by the clothes worn, words used, clubs attended, or company kept. Homosexuality is defined by the act or desire to fornicate with the same sex. In actuality this is really demeaning and insulting to pretend that you are gay for a month just by wearing a certain clothes or talking funny. Its like saying im going to be black for a month and wear FUBU and say nigga. it just doesnt work and even if the intention was good (i dont believe it was) in practice its laughable. What can you expect from an evangelical? That might be bigoted to say but not any more than pretending gay people only dress a certain way or act a certain way. You could act gay by being a "normal" guy that acts the same way a hetero guy acts but likes dudes.

I just have a hard time believing he did this for reasons that weren't utterly selfish in the end. Honestly i think his intentions are worse than selfish but time will tell i guess.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Here we have a brave and courageous man.


If a guy who was against you at one point, can turn his viewpoint around to this, I wonder what would happen if all extremists had a year in the life of those they hated.

Thoughts?

~Tenth

I fail to see why this makes the guy brave or courageous. I also am not overly fond of presenting this in a way that seems to be saying that all Christians are plagued with an attitude of self righteousness. According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, you can't really argue that point. You can either believe this is true, or not. But that is not the same as saying gay people are inherently less moral than anyone else. Everyone commits sins, daily. You cannot not sin, it it's in our nature, and there is just no getting around it. The Bible clearly states all have sinned. Simply because it specifically mentions homosexuality as a sin certainly doesn't make them more sinful or some such.

In your story, we have a man with a very limited view who realizes he may have drawn the wrong conclusion however long ago. Rather than thinking objectively and logically looking at his own shortcomings first, he spends a year doing something to give him an "inside view" and writes a book about it. I do doubt his book is all for enlightening individuals such as his former self. He knows his former self was not logical, and you can't really convince people one way or another if they don't think logically as they are emotion/faith driven.

I'd question his new found enlightenment, it may simply be the means to early retirement and or a life of leisure. That's a bit cynical I know, but I could be better convinced if he donated half of his earning to a group for gay marriage rights or something.

Despite me being unimpressed with this man or his actions, your last sentence is well said. But did this guy actually hate homosexuals? No I don't know that I would say that. His perhaps misguided desire was to do what he thought would save their souls. Hardly what you would expect from a hatemonger.

Note that the following is meant to engage those who believe being gay is somehow wrong, or a sin if religious. In no way are my comments directed toward any single person. I wanted to say this because I use the word "you" quite a bit. I didn't want the OP to get the wrong idea mainly, lol. So without further ado, here is my rant...

In this day and age, how can people be so ignorant? It even goes beyond ignorance, all the way to stupidity in my opinion. Being homosexual or heterosexual is NOT a choice. You cannot convert someone who is homosexual into a heterosexual, or vice-versa. That is just not how biology operates. The many examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves that man is not the only animal that engages in such behavior.

People who are straight are attracted to the opposite sex, and this occurs on a primal level, and there is absolutely nothing the person can do to change that primal reaction. The same is true for a gay person. They are attracted to the same sex with the same primal instinct, which does not leave them with a choice. Anyone who says that a gay person should simply engage in relations with the opposite sex, despite the fact that they are not attracted to them, is cruel. Imagine yourself engaging in relations with the same sex, and you will have an idea as to how gay people feel about heterosexuality. It is just gross to them, the same as it is for straight people.

So please stop the ignorance if you hate gay people, or think that they have any choice in the matter whatsoever. You should educate yourself on biology, genetics, instinct, etc, as then maybe you will grasp the scientific concept of attraction. And it is all based on science. And the religious people who look down on homosexuals, I have something to say to you as well.

You claim the Bible says man should not lie with man, but the Bible also says and eye for an eye. That does not mean that is what your religion teaches, as I'm assuming most are Christians. Too many people take the Bible out of context, because they read a simple verse or passage and think that is God's word, or the teachings of their religion. This is NOT the case by any means. How people are so ignorant is beyond me. Any person who claims to be a Christian, yet looks down on gay people, better stop and repent lest they go to hell. I am not saying this based on what I believe, but on what they themselves believe. See I know all about Christianity, and I am telling you that if you are Christian, you should not be judging ANYONE for ANY reason whatsoever, because that judgment will be visited back on you tenfold.

Jesus taught not only tolerance, but also said that the second most important commandment was to love your neighbor. In context, "neighbor" means every single person you interact with, read about, hear about, etc. Anyone and everyone. I am reminded of those people from the Westboro Baptist Church. Every single on of them, based on their own beliefs, will likely go to hell...The exact fate they are claiming others will suffer, as these church members judge them. They forget that Jesus talked about the speck of sawdust in the person's eye whom you are judging, while you yourself have an entire plank, or board, in your own eye.

Now I am not "preaching" because I think everyone will listen. In fact, this religious portion of this thread is meant to engage only those who claim to be Christian, yet who still judge gay people. They have no right to do so and still call themselves Christians, and in fact from a scientific point of view they have no right to judge gay people either. So whether you are religious or not, if you claim gay people are wrong or evil, YOU are the person who is wrong, and the one who is evil, because you are passing judgment on people based on a topic you know nothing about.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus


In this day and age, how can people be so ignorant?

Ok, so we already know you have a biased, lets try to be fair from now on okay?

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
It even goes beyond ignorance, all the way to stupidity in my opinion.

Ouch? We can be more civil no?

Being homosexual or heterosexual is NOT a choice. You cannot convert someone who is homosexual into a heterosexual, or vice-versa. That is just not how biology operates. The many examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves that man is not the only animal that engages in such behavior.

This is actually a decent argument, and I like how you brought animals in. I know we have all had a dog that humped another male dog My question is why the behavior happens, I dont have a good answer, but it may be practice, or a domination thing. Most rape experts say rape happens not for sex, but to show superiority

People who are straight are attracted to the opposite sex, and this occurs on a primal level, and there is absolutely nothing the person can do to change that primal reaction. The same is true for a gay person. They are attracted to the same sex with the same primal instinct, which does not leave them with a choice. Anyone who says that a gay person should simply engage in relations with the opposite sex, despite the fact that they are not attracted to them, is cruel. Imagine yourself engaging in relations with the same sex, and you will have an idea as to how gay people feel about heterosexuality. It is just gross to them, the same as it is for straight people.

This is something I can't talk to really I'd be dishonest if I did

So please stop the ignorance if you hate gay people, or think that they have any choice in the matter whatsoever. You should educate yourself on biology, genetics, instinct, etc, as then maybe you will grasp the scientific concept of attraction. And it is all based on science. And the religious people who look down on homosexuals, I have something to say to you as well.

You claim the Bible says man should not lie with man, but the Bible also says and eye for an eye. That does not mean that is what your religion teaches, as I'm assuming most are Christians. Too many people take the Bible out of context, because they read a simple verse or passage and think that is God's word, or the teachings of their religion. This is NOT the case by any means. How people are so ignorant is beyond me. Any person who claims to be a Christian, yet looks down on gay people, better stop and repent lest they go to hell. I am not saying this based on what I believe, but on what they themselves believe. See I know all about Christianity, and I am telling you that if you are Christian, you should not be judging ANYONE for ANY reason whatsoever, because that judgment will be visited back on you tenfold.

ok we obviously had a dissconnect

Jesus taught not only tolerance, but also said that the second most important commandment was to love your neighbor. In context, "neighbor" means every single person you interact with, read about, hear about, etc. Anyone and everyone. I am reminded of those people from the Westboro Baptist Church. Every single on of them, based on their own beliefs, will likely go to hell...The exact fate they are claiming others will suffer, as these church members judge them. They forget that Jesus talked about the speck of sawdust in the person's eye whom you are judging, while you yourself have an entire plank, or board, in your own eye.

Now I am not "preaching" because I think everyone will listen. In fact, this religious portion of this thread is meant to engage only those who claim to be Christian, yet who still judge gay people. They have no right to do so and still call themselves Christians, and in fact from a scientific point of view they have no right to judge gay people either. So whether you are religious or not, if you claim gay people are wrong or evil, YOU are the person who is wrong, and the one who is evil, because you are passing judgment on people based on a topic you know nothing about.

So, this guy was not a true evangelical , nor was he a true gay. I guess he could not make enough money preaching so he decided to do something he could write a book about.

With this guy not being true to Any convictions and a fraud, I would not listen to anything this scam artist has to say on any subject.

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by viperdave

 

I will state this and not feel guilty for what I believe.

All opposition to the Homosexual lifestyle is NOT driven by HATE.

I don't hate. I am opposed to having an agenda shoved down my throat, though. If I don't agree with the "gay" lifestyle doesn't make me a hater. But I do hate someone telling me I have to accept as normal, a deviant sexual behavior.

OK, I can accept that, but does that mean that you are OK with people being homosexual as long as they don't also practice the "lifestyle"? I understand your fears of some "gay agenda" that is attempting to depopulate the planet through the media, though I don't subscribe to it. However, what about people who don't impose their homosexuality in public at all? Is that OK in your eyes, or is any homosexual activity wrong?

What would you say to someone like me who is asexual? Is it "unnatural" or "deviant" to be asexual?

ETA: Just wanted to ask: How is this guy "acting gay"? do all homosexuals act in a certain way? I thought hat was called generalizing. Dont some people "act straight" while still being a homosexual? I'm just confused as to how this experiment makes any sense.

reply to post by CalebRight14


I think your quoting is all messed up here. I was trying to read it but it was all jumbled up, so I recommend you fix that. Just put *[ quote ]* (remove spaces) before what the person you are relying to said, then put the same thing except with a */* before the *quote* at the end of their statements. Do that for each of the statements made by them and walla.


ETA: Sorry for going off-topic here mods but I was just trying to help this poster reform their post.

reply to post by Renegade2283


You aren't the only one seeing a problem with this experiment. But it's feel good, you know? Why let logic play any part when we already feel good? Everyone go buy his book, he will be on the talk show circuit soon i assume. You too can tell your gay cousin you now underatand his plight!

reply to post by CalebRight14

They have no right to do so and still call themselves Christians, and in fact from a scientific point of view they have no right to judge gay people either.

I like your civil approach. I don't think there is conclusive scientific evidence either way that sexual orientation is a "genetic trait". It is more behavioral, in my opinion, however that behavior came about.
I wonder if murdering people is also a "genetic trait". I think to explain away every behavior as something genetic which we cannot control is to sacrifice our self-control. Buddhism is a religion which encourages self-control though the abolition of desires. Are humans capable of controlling murderous intentions and actions? Some are, but do we do it because we are naturally "good" or because we have self-control which we learned in our childhood or young adulthood?
Science still doesn't understand schizophrenia either, and that is also behavioral, but clearly such patients do not have self-control.
Perhaps everything is genetic. Perhaps our individuality comes out regardless of genetics.

I think it is interesting that wolves mate for life. I wonder what is the determining factor in that type of animal behavior. Are humans mere animals with no self control but just animalistic instincts?

But still, you are trying to define Christinaity based on your own moral standard.