I'm a Christian, but think the OT God is a false god

Back when I was in the Evangelical circuit about a decade ago, I used to do Bible studies and always came across all of these OT god references that didn't make sense. Jealous god, regretted making man hence the flood, commanding Moses and his army to kill a bunch of other tribes, killing the men, children, and taking the women for themselves, and a bunch of other illogical attributes to a God who is supposed to be All Love, Transcendent, Omniscient, etc etc.

They won't let you question it in Church though. Luckily for me I became a Christian Mystic Non-Dualist(due to alot of mystical experiences and graces) and found that the original Christianity (Eastern Orthodox) also has Mystic schools that work on Union (Merging) with the True God.

Anyway, since then I've come to embrace Buddhism as well and find very practical and scientifically/philosophically applicable blueprints on going within and different states of consciousness which I have personally experienced just by following some of these blueprints.

Upon further investigation of Buddhism, I found that after Buddha achieved Enlightenment and would travel Spiritually into the Spiritual realms, he would come across these Lower Creator gods, who took themselves to be, The Absolute God.

Baka Brahmā (literally "crane-Brahmā") appears in the Majjhima Nikaya, where he is a deity who believes that his world is permanent and without decay (and that therefore he is immortal), and that therefore there are no higher worlds than his. The Buddha refutes Baka's claims, relating the concept of anitya or impermanence, but one of Baka's attendants (influenced by Māra) asserts that Baka is the Creator, that those who praise him will be rewarded, but those who deny his powers will be terribly punished. The Buddha identifies the real speaker as Māra, and states that he is free of his power.

If you study further, there are a number of these Demiurge Lower, Lesser creator gods, that Buddha refutes philosophically and in other ways. Some of them forget their origins, and so they actually have tricked themselves into believing that they are the True God....

This has HUGE implications on the Old Testament.

reply to post by dominicus


When you begin looking at these stories from an Anthropological sense in terms of culture/region specific mythologies the evolution of these stories and beliefs makes more sense.

Consider when this god was invented. Consider that Hinduism was around long before, thousands of years before this desert nomad belief ever developed traction.
From a creation myth standpoint wouldn't it make sense the oldest known religions have a closer perspective on the origins of man (from a creationist perspective)?

Consider also the billions of people that were born, lived their whole lives, and died paying homage to revered ancestors, animal spirits, thunder gods, and other belief systems rich in a wealth of philosophy cultural significance and historical relevance long before there ever was a god of Abraham, or Jesus, or Muhammed.
Were their faiths any more or less significant and true to them than anyone else's belief in some other mythology somewhere else on the planet at any point in time over the entire history of mankind?

Thousands of years from now, just as Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, Norse mythology, and other such that were once living faiths with profound significant cultural value are touched on and discussed in history courses, eventually Christian Mythology will also be added to the mix.

reply to post by dominicus


Technically, if you don't attest to the Nicene Creed, you are not a Christian. You can say that you're a follower of Christ or something, but you can't say that you're a Christian, because the Creed is what defines what a Christian agrees that they believe in. Christianity, after all, is effectively a Jewish sect, so you can't reject those roots out of hand.

Saying that one is a Christian while rejecting the core of Christianity is a bit like saying that, even though you have no Norwegian ancestors, you're a Norwegian just because you say you are.

Now, on the other hand, if you want to say that you think that the Old Testament God is somewhat misrepresented in that text, but that, overall, he's valid, then that's just saying that you're not a literalist, and you'd still be supportive of the Creed. But to dismiss him (or to view him with disdain) would be akin to Marcionism or Gnostic Christianity, both of which are long dismissed heresies.

reply to post by adjensen

Technically, if you don't attest to the Nicene Creed, you are not a Christian. You can say that you're a follower of Christ or something, but you can't say that you're a Christian, because the Creed is what defines what a Christian agrees that they believe in. Christianity, after all, is effectively a Jewish sect, so you can't reject those roots out of hand.

The creed itself was about what the majority agrees on as far as beliefs, liturgy, grace, etc etc. If I don't necessarily agree to certain aspects of the creed, or am on the fence about certain things, that doesn't make me any less a Christian.

Saying that one is a Christian while rejecting the core of Christianity is a bit like saying that, even though you have no Norwegian ancestors, you're a Norwegian just because you say you are.

The Core of Christianity is Christ himself and what he taught. I have directly experienced and seen that we are Souls/Consciousness, inhabiting physical bodies. We are inherently not these bodies and consciousness transcends "Norwegian, Jew, Black, white, male, female."

Christ also knew this and said that everyone is his mother, sister brother, friend, etc.

He spoke to the Jews using the OT, because that's the only way they would listen to him. He had to speak their language in order for them to listen, just like you have to speak Spanish if you want to communicate in Mexico.

Now, on the other hand, if you want to say that you think that the Old Testament God is somewhat misrepresented in that text, but that, overall, he's valid, then that's just saying that you're not a literalist, and you'd still be supportive of the Creed. But to dismiss him (or to view him with disdain) would be akin to Marcionism or Gnostic Christianity, both of which are long dismissed heresies.

Who knows. Some aspects of Gnosticism can still be valid. They too discussed being indwelled by the Holy Spirit and having ego deaths, mystical experiences, divine love, and seeing Christ in visions. I find some of the Gnostic teachings applicable and found certain things to be true such as the doctrine of pre-existence, after I myself have remembered to have existed prior to being born in a physical body.

Personally, I don't care for who or what church or creed considers me a Christian or not. We are all inherently beyond labels and our souls belong to God

reply to post by dominicus


Something to consider: If you are a mystic Christian, then you will know the terms involution and evolution and the nature of immersion of spirit into the inconscience of matter. By stating that your high moral value is above that of God in 2012, does not in any way imply that God in 1200 BC was some type of evil dictator or God of war. The process of involution and evolution requires that the spirit that is behind the veil is rising back to the source from which it came. As a Christian Mystic, you may see the relevance in what I will present to you here. Read this verse:

1 Colossians 1: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Where did the Son originate? God. Where did you originate? From the Son, which is the FIRST image of God and the Adam (Father) of mankind. Since you are familiar with the OT, I will spare you the verses. Do you recall the first creation story in Genesis 1 of the IMAGE by the Elohim? Do you then know that there is a second creation story when we are introduced to the LORD of the OT (YHVH)? Yud Hey Vav Hey means "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail." Who was it that was involved into the material world as your Shepherd, also the Lord of the OT, also the first image that made you and also the Father and also the multiplicity of souls that originate from the first soul that God created? Well, that would be the Son and it would be you. In other words, you are denying the goodness of God because you have not been good.

Keep in mind, the Bible is the image and mirror we see ourselves by. Listen to what Job said of HIS Redeemer, the last Adam (Christ) and Lord of the OT.

23 “Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
24 that they were inscribed with an iron tool on lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

Lucky for us, he got his wish. Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the ERROR is in Him and then judging yourself by that standard? According to Job, " “If you say, ‘How we will hound him, since the root of the trouble lies in him,’ you should fear the sword yourselves; for wrath will bring punishment by the sword, and then you will know that there is judgment.

When you judge other, including God, you are judging yourself. You are part of the Image that God created of Himself. When you look in a mirror, do you see you or your image? What does that tell you about the one in the image? You are the one casting the image and the image of God. You are not God, but a part. Judging the OT God is judging the very image that allowed you to know the difference between now and then. Apart from the involution, there is no evolution.

Rethink your platform and humbly seek the loaf you are cut from. The only true idol we can ever have is the one that says we are higher than God. We can make ourselves that idol without recognizing that we are all part of the one true God.

1 Corinthians 10

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by adjensen

 

Technically, if you don't attest to the Nicene Creed, you are not a Christian. You can say that you're a follower of Christ or something, but you can't say that you're a Christian, because the Creed is what defines what a Christian agrees that they believe in. Christianity, after all, is effectively a Jewish sect, so you can't reject those roots out of hand.

The creed itself was about what the majority agrees on as far as beliefs, liturgy, grace, etc etc. If I don't necessarily agree to certain aspects of the creed, or am on the fence about certain things, that doesn't make me any less a Christian.

No, it's not a menu that you pick and choose from, it's the core beliefs of Christianity, and if you don't believe it, you are not a Christian, period, because that Creed is what defines a Christian, just like having Norwegian ancestors or living in that country defines who is Norwegian.

He spoke to the Jews using the OT, because that's the only way they would listen to him. He had to speak their language in order for them to listen, just like you have to speak Spanish if you want to communicate in Mexico.

No, he spoke to the Jews using the Old Testament because he was Jewish. How did you miss that part?

Who knows. Some aspects of Gnosticism can still be valid.

No. As someone who has non-superficially studied the Gnostic Christians, their origins, their history and their theology, I can positively say that none of their core beliefs were valid, which is a good thing, since their important knowledge died out with them because it couldn't be written down.

Personally, I don't care for who or what church or creed considers me a Christian or not. We are all inherently beyond labels and our souls belong to God

Well, if you're "beyond labels", then don't label yourself as a Christian. You creating a thread saying "I'm a Christian and I don't believe in the God of Christianity" is on a par with me, who is not Japanese, creating a thread titled "I'm Japanese, and here's why I hate the Emperor."

reply to post by dominicus


I would suggest you read The Apocryphon of John...

Funny... This is the second time today i've made that suggestion... Perhaps people are waking up

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Its basically a more logical view of "the beginning" when compared to what is given in the bible... It also explains the OT God... And how "it" came to be...

Take it as you will

reply to post by EnochWasRight

By stating that your high moral value is above that of God in 2012, does not in any way imply that God in 1200 BC was some type of evil dictator or God of war.

never did state that my moral value is higher than God's.

Do you recall the first creation story in Genesis 1 of the IMAGE by the Elohim?

Besides Genesis, we should consider the Epic of Gilgamesh and also study all of the world's oldest origin writings, compare, contrast, etc. On top of that, like said in the OP, there are too many things that don't make sense like creating the tree of knowledge in the first place, then telling Adam/Eve, not to eat from it, knowing that they would eventually be tricked and eat from it. Why not just never have the tree of knowledge there in the garden in the 1st place. (Solved!!!!)

Regret for creating mankind and then the flood. Jealous. Ordering Moses and his armies to kill. Looks like alot of things being done in God's name and being accredited to God, but are they really..

" Who was it that was involved into the material world as your Shepherd, also the Lord of the OT, also the first image that made you and also the Father and also the multiplicity of souls that originate from the first soul that God created? Well, that would be the Son and it would be you.

Jesus had to come to show people how to break away from the physical, the programming & brainwashing of the world and to experience Mystical Grace and Ego death. That allows you to detach from this physical realm which the Bible says is ruled by the power and principalities of the Air and of Satan.

In other words, you are denying the goodness of God because you have not been good.

I'm denying God being good. I'm questioning the OT references of God, as possibly that of a lower Demiurge. These demiurge's are discussed by Socrates, Plato, Buddha, all across the world in various cultures which did not have access to each other.

As far as me being good.... I remember pre-existing prior to being a Body and having an ego. That brings up a whole Slew of theological cans of worms. Was I not good in my pre-existent state? I was asked to come down and be born and help out here on earth and that like an infinite tapestry, everything is connected.

So I know I am inherently not the Body or the Ego (the 2 mechanisms that caused me to sin here and to do bad acts) ...and that the real me, the soul, inhabits this vehicle and all bad/sin was done previously due to Spiritual ignorance. Even Jesus heals the cripple, tells him to pick up his mat and Sin no more. I've seent hat such states are possible where one lets go of delusion, the body-I identification, ego identification, and re-connects back to Sou and God and lives in an ideal state ....seen glimpses of this.

Judging the OT God is judging the very image that allowed you to know the difference between now and then

There is no judgement here. There is questioning, researching, wondering, penetrating depths.

Rethink your platform and humbly seek the loaf you are cut from. The only true idol we can ever have is the one that says we are higher than God. We can make ourselves that idol without recognizing that we are all part of the one true God.

It's in all our nature to wonder, ask, question, seek, doubt, wrestle with ....it's part of the human experience. God being so kind, loving transcendent, would completely understand why I questioned and doubted certain aspects of the OT and would be cool with it. I don't fear leaving the body and returning for Judgement and bringing up my doubt and questioning about the OT.

Furthermore, I also embrace Buddhism, Zen, Nonduality, Philosophy, and various aspects of Hindu Philosophy because I've seen directly through direct experience that many of the things they say are true, so Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on Spiritual truths

reply to post by dominicus

Besides Genesis, we should consider the Epic of Gilgamesh and also study all of the world's oldest origin writings, compare, contrast, etc. On top of that, like said in the OP, there are too many things that don't make sense like creating the tree of knowledge in the first place, then telling Adam/Eve, not to eat from it, knowing that they would eventually be tricked and eat from it. Why not just never have the tree of knowledge there in the garden in the 1st place. (Solved!!!!)

That depends. Is your good intention higher than God's intent. You see, intent is by design. Intention is by wishful thinking. God's design looks beyond the seed to the fruit.

"If you think in terms of a year, plant a seed; if in terms of ten years, plant trees; if in terms of 100 years, teach the people." ----Confucius


"I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." ----Confucius

God placed one choice in the center of the Garden. Free will demands we make a choice between good and evil. How do you ensure that the choice is made with wisdom? You provide four obstacles to overcome and throw in an adversary.

Earth - We are planted into the Garden. We are not rooted in the soil like plants or in a fixed domain like fish. Instead, we can occupy all domains. This autonomy requires that we overcome these domains by hardships. The wilderness we occupy was provided to allow our growth by experience.

Air - We are given the Word of God as a guide to the wilderness. This word is also the language we learn and master. Meaning ultimately comes when we decipher the inner symbols of nature and overcome our ignorance and pride of the outer world. Meaning springs from the root, just like a plant.

Water - We are baptized into the Water (Immersion into Reality). The water cleanses the temple (body). The temple is where the sacrifice is made. This temple houses the spirit of God, along with our soul. We are to overcome as we are born again. "You must be born again." Plants die and the seed perpetuates to the next generation. Producing fruit ensures seed for the next crop.
Again, from Isaiah 2619 But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.20 Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Fire - We are finally baptized by Trials. The Flaming Sword of God cuts away pride and protects the tree of life. The tree of life is DNA. We light the fire we burn by. We can also put out the fire with the water.

Spirit - After overcoming the first four baptisms, we are then baptized by the Spirit of God. Jesus is necessary for us to be marked by the spirit for salvation from the Fire. The water and blood of Christ brings salvation from the corruption of the elements.

reply to post by adjensen

No, it's not a menu that you pick and choose from, it's the core beliefs of Christianity

So your going to consider a Counsel, several hundred years away from Jesus and his disciples, infiltrated by the politics of Constantine (The old ways of Power), discussed and agreed upon by a bunch of men and their precepts, men which who even knows if they underwent the Spiritual Death and were Indwelled and moved by the Holy Spirit, having transferred Passover on to pagan Easter.

"Constantine corrupted and perverted Christinaity more than he aided it. He was an ambitious and superstitious Emperor who murdered his own kindred (his wife and son) while promoting Christianity. He paganized Christianity while using it as a political tool to solidify his Empire." -Paganism Surviving in Christianity By Abram Herbert Lewis "The Control of Christianity by the State Under Constantine and his Successors" Chapter X; pg. 203

The same Pharisees & Sadducees that fought against Jesus and wanted to kill him when he was around, were simply replaced by the Rulers of Churches.

And you expect me to go by this creed? Come on now. I hope you have something else to go on.

and if you don't believe it, you are not a Christian, period, because that Creed is what defines a Christian, just like having Norwegian ancestors or living in that country defines who is Norwegian.

My Heart Loving God and Jesus and longing for Union and Loving my neighbor's and having gone through multiple ego death's and mystical experiences is what defines me as a Christian. Not a bunch of agreed upon beliefs.

No, he spoke to the Jews using the Old Testament because he was Jewish. How did you miss that part?

Considering Jesus pre-existed prior to having a Physical "Jewish" body ...is the pre-existant version of Jesus Jewish? You really think Jesus/od think in terms of nationalities & divisions? Come on now.

No. As someone who has non-superficially studied the Gnostic Christians, their origins, their history and their theology, I can positively say that none of their core beliefs were valid, which is a good thing, since their important knowledge died out with them because it couldn't be written down.

...all assumptions according to your own opinions. Gnostics had several doctrines such as the Inner Spark, Pre-existence, and various others ...of which I have directly experienced the Divine Spark and directly experienced remembering myself to have pre-existed prior to the body, validating at least those 2 doctrines as being beyond a doubt true..... who knows what other one's they were correct on.

Well, if you're "beyond labels", then don't label yourself as a Christian.

Very well, I'm a follower of " The Way" then.

You creating a thread saying "I'm a Christian and I don't believe in the God of Christianity" is on a par with me, who is not Japanese, creating a thread titled "I'm Japanese, and here's why I hate the Emperor."

Error: The thread is entitled, "I'm a Christian, but think the OT God is a false god".

It's not on par with anything. There are various different views in Christianity, and just because it doesn't agree with your "version" doesn't mean it's not right.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

That depends. Is your good intention higher than God's intent. You see, intent is by design. Intention is by wishful thinking. God's design looks beyond the seed to the fruit.

Anyone's intent is impossible to be higher then God's intent. My intent is personal and genuine curiosity, seeking, wonderment, wanting to know what the Truth is, and various other aspects that are built into me. It's one's one inner Nature and Intention to find out what's going on.

God placed one choice in the center of the Garden. Free will demands we make a choice between good and evil.

That's if you take the Genesis account to be literal. Many in the Eastern Orthodox modes of thinking (which can actually make a genuine claim to being closest to the Original version of Christianity) hold that the Genesis account is symbolic to The Soul originally being in a Non-Dual Union state with God, and then deciding to put on the illusion of separation.

It really depends who's take were gong on. Free will don't cut it for me, because the repercussions of eating from that tree were way to great and too risky to leave those two in the garden knowing that they weren't equipped with enough foresight to know how great the effect would be by eating from the tree.

See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Considering I remember having pre-existed, this also doesn't make sense. Let's have a bunch of Souls born into human bodies and forget their pre-existence, therefore allowing them to be programmed by the ways of the world, slaves to the passions of the body and of the ego, causing them to sin due to this ignorance that is inherent in human existence, and then punish them for it......

Spirit - After overcoming the first four baptisms, we are then baptized by the Spirit of God. Jesus is necessary for us to be marked by the spirit for salvation from the Fire. The water and blood of Christ brings salvation from the corruption of the elements.

I agree w/ Baptism and various aspects of what you say. However for me they all have to do with remembering that we are not from here and have pre-existed prior to all this. Jesus and his teachings, to me, are blueprints to Enlightenment, Ego death, detachment from the body, and regaining access to the Spiritual realms, and personal access to the Absolute Infinite God. All things that Jesus was adamant about.

Things that also apply to other branches, philosophies, and religions of thought world wide.

That's why there is this Great schism for me with the OT and the catastrophic fruits it has also produced in Judaism and Islam, harbingers of separatist thought, divisions, wars, etc. Jesus came and was basically saying, yes the OT predicts his coming, and now that he's here, listen up cause from here on out, this is how it's going down.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by adjensen

 

No, it's not a menu that you pick and choose from, it's the core beliefs of Christianity

So your going to consider a Counsel, several hundred years away from Jesus and his disciples, infiltrated by the politics of Constantine (The old ways of Power), discussed and agreed upon by a bunch of men and their precepts, men which who even knows if they underwent the Spiritual Death and were Indwelled and moved by the Holy Spirit, having transferred Passover on to pagan Easter.

"Constantine corrupted and perverted Christinaity more than he aided it. He was an ambitious and superstitious Emperor who murdered his own kindred (his wife and son) while promoting Christianity. He paganized Christianity while using it as a political tool to solidify his Empire." -Paganism Surviving in Christianity By Abram Herbert Lewis "The Control of Christianity by the State Under Constantine and his Successors" Chapter X; pg. 203

You're citing an 19th Century Seventh Day Adventist as being some sort of unbiased historical researcher? Why not just throw in the towel and cite The Da Vinci Code while you're at it?

The Council of Nicaea was held to address Arianism and the content of the Creed began there, but it was neither written as it stands on the spot, nor was it written by Constantine, who admitted that he had neither the knowledge nor the interest in participating in discussions, beyond telling them to come to a conclusion, whatever it was (he'd have been just as happy if Arius had won -- contrary to popular belief, Constantine wasn't a Christian until just before he died.)

My Heart Loving God and Jesus and longing for Union and Loving my neighbor's and having gone through multiple ego death's and mystical experiences is what defines me as a Christian. Not a bunch of agreed upon beliefs.

But you don't love God or Jesus -- you're badmouthing God and you're calling Jesus a liar, because Jesus very specifically said that the God of the Old Testament was his father, he taught from the scriptures that you dismiss, and the notions that you find appealing in Gnosticism come from Plato, not from Christ.

Well, if you're "beyond labels", then don't label yourself as a Christian.

Very well, I'm a follower of " The Way" then.

Fine by me.

Pretty much how I feel about that. And Christ did tell them who their father was.

God/Goodness/Love/Dad/Mom is not a smiting, killing, jealous, Parent. Does not create babies and then tell you to conquer the land and murder them to the last suckling. That is not God. God did not test Abraham and ask him to murder/sacrifice his son. God/Goodness does not ask for human or animal sacrifice of any kind, ever. That is satanic. Not even to test your faith. In fact, if a voice asks you to do that pretending to be God, the test is whether you believe Love would ask this or not. The test would be to be more discerning.

God never asked moses to find out which men were capable of murdering thousands of their own kin, family and friends who had become terrified of whatever entity Moses was following, and quickly ran to other gods.

That wasn't God.

Anyone with Love knows that.

In fact, I like what James Gilliland had to say about God as Spirit of Love and Joy and Peace, versus anyone seeing a little old patriarchal male. He said if an old man tell you he's your Creator/God. Tell him you want to talk to his mother!

reply to post by adjensen


I'm a Christian. I know what the Apostles Creed is. I know and can recite the Nicene Creed still. And a lot more.

But, I don't agree with the wording. And you, nor any pope, nor any minister can even begin to define whether or not I believe in Christ or not or whether or not I'm a Christian. The early Peter based Christians were essenes/gnostics/nazarenes. I don't think any of us really are the kind of Christians they were.

Its an inner journey. The temple is our bodies.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


A Mystic Christian would ask you to define God, and all of the terms you speak of. And would see everything as metaphor.

With this passage in Genesis, its pretty hard to take any of it literally:

Gensis 32 30

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Eternal life, awakened pineal and lifeline to God. hmmmm....interesting concept.

reply to post by adjensen

You're citing an 19th Century Seventh Day Adventist as being some sort of unbiased historical researcher? Why not just throw in the towel and cite The Da Vinci Code while you're at it?

Doesn't matter who I cite, as I can cite literally hundreds of references of the Corruption that entered into Christianity via the Romans, Constantine, Paganism, Literal Fundamentalism, cultural political systems, etc so no need for davinci code which is fiction....

The end result being the Great Schism of 1054, where Eastern Orthodoxy had to break off from the Christianity that resulted in Europe and the Nicea Counsel version of Christianity had become cerebral and literal, lacking the mystical and direct experiences that are held in such High esteem to this very day in E.O. All of Western Christianity has since become a bastardized corruption of the original since then, and I can back this up with volumes of scholarly and theological works.

But you don't love God or Jesus

Prove that I don't Love them. My whole Life has become a living prayer, time spent in prayer, meditation, study, submission, Love, Mysticism. You don't know my heart so it is beyond you to claim that I don't Love the Lord and the Father.

you're badmouthing God and you're calling Jesus a liar

Im not badmouthing God, I'm saying the OT doesn't apply to me. The NT does. Similarly, the Genesis story is echoed in, and could have it's origin in Sumerian texts. If you study those texts, and the rest of the worlds oldest texts as far as the origins of Man, there is alot more to it that the Biblical Nicea version of it all.

I'm not calling Jesus a liar either. I'm saying he had to use the OT to get through to the Jews. It was his only source of historical scripture, albeit crude. Yet even the OT speaks of his coming and changing everything. The OT is based on Jesus' coming. Once he's here, OT is null & void. Everything is streamlined, simplified, and becomes universally accessible, instead of just "Jewish."

because Jesus very specifically said that the God of the Old Testament was his father,

please do provide the verse

he taught from the scriptures that you dismiss

I dismiss and question various aspects in the OT, specifically questionable acts attributed to God. Other aspects like Psalms, as poetic, cryptic, insightful, etc. At the end of the day, I hold the words in RED, Jesus' teachings, above everything else in the Bible both OT & NT. Considering Jesus One with God, was in a higher spiritual state than any of the other authors or disciples, his teachings/words hold the most weight. I've also experienced glimpses of Oneness with an Absolute Beingness ....we are also called to this Oneness in John 17:21

and the notions that you find appealing in Gnosticism come from Plato, not from Christ.

Not all. I Believe Plato also penetrated very deep and profound Spiritual depths and Enlightenments, so what he had to say would have also rang true with much of what Jesus taught.

We now know about the Essenes, Nag Hammadi, various aspects o Gnosticism in all the world's religions, and even the Gospel of Thomas is the oldest surviving written copy of, what fundies consider Gnostic, yet is even older than any know NT book. The Thomas gospel has some very interesting things to say that a Fundy would not understand, Zen type Koans and highly potent intellectual discriminitive knowledge that if one can decipher properly, can lead into a direct experience of God

Take the etymology of the Word "Gnosticism" and you will find that there is nothing inherently wrong with it except for the extra baggage that Western Literal Fundamentalist's add to it. Baggage that inherently isn't there.

It's basically Intuitive, inner, esoteric knowledge and since I have been baptized, I've had a TON of these gnosis experiences come to me even though I used to think gnosis was false. Gnosis doesn't belong to Plato. It has origins all over the world.

reply to post by dominicus


Apparently you forgot to factor in that not only is God love and unicorns and skittles... He is also holy, righteous, and just.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dominicus

 

Apparently you forgot to factor in that not only is God love and unicorns and skittles... He is also holy, righteous, and just.

So Holy, Righteous, & Just is your reasoning for ordering Moses and his army to Kill all those women, children, and their Fathers? Being jealous? Regretting making man and causing the flood?

If you read the rest of the world's oldest texts on the Origins of man and God then there is alot more than meets the eye. There is then seen a grander fuller perspective than what the Church's have been biased about teaching

Well now..

I really have a difficult time giving my ear to an "authority" who claims Constantine made Christianity the religion of the Roman empire. Mainly because Theodocius I did that. Constantine only legalized Christianity.

I swear I think some people get their history from cartoons.

reply to post by dominicus


The flood killed Nephillim, go re-read Genesis 6. They were demigod offspring of fallen angels and women.