Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

You're a giant among men, I hope your post gave you a deep sense of satisfaction.

Just saying it how I see it... You choose to rationalize what the burglars did and I choose to defend the victim of a terrifying crime... You say it is a "petty" crime...

I'm not defending all burglars, I'm defending these two.

Nope you were saying that MOST burglars do not aim for violence... You say that half don't use weapons etc... Anyway it is easy to sympathize with burglars after the fact, but the guy didn't know how old they were, if they were armed, what they wanted from him, what they planned to do or anything... I sympathize with him for being put in this situation... He never asked for any of this...

They did not deserve to die.

It doesn't matter what they deserve, they broke into his HOME! They should expect that most people won't like that all too much and they could get shot and killed... It is their own fault... Again, don't break into peoples homes and you won't get shot and killed. Pretty simple really...

And my point was that you used the most extreme cases to justify killing any intruder.

Yes because you do not know what you are dealing with when you have an intruder... You could very well be dealing with these types of people! My point is why risk YOUR life to find out?

An d me not being able to find statistics for certain assertions doesn't make them false...

Doesn't make it true either... Just pointless...

And killing should still be a last resort at all times.

Your life being in danger IS the last resort though... That is my whole point...

Edit:

I said in my first post in this thread that I got caught burglarizing when I was 16. So yes, I can imagine the mindset and I know that young people who break and enter don't always end up living their lives out as useless thugs.

Ahhh I didn't see that, so it all makes sense... You sympathize with your own kind... Fair enough...

And a large majority of the time it's about money, not violence.

It doesn't matter what the intention is! A lot of burglars WILL use violence if confronted... So they should be seen as violent.. Tell me, when you burglarized people did you ever take a weapon? You know, just in case?

Excuse me Mr intruder, I can see your busy, but, I wonder if I can ask you a question. Are you just here to take my things or are you here to harm me? I need to know if I am going to shoot you in the head or the shoulder...

The guy had the right the shoot them and kill them is necessary, but why hide the bodies?

He should of called the cops first chance he got.

Originally posted by Strictsum
As far as this case goes. He should be charged with first degree murder, no doubt about it. To execute that girl the way he did is just murder. No self defense in there at all.

However as far as shooting an intruder, it should be within everyones rights to do so. If you wait around to see if an intruder has a weapon its already to late and you are dead. Not that all homeowners should go for a kill shot but a leg or shoulder wound should be good enough.

If these 2 were breaking and entering and had time to laugh at him. He knew they didn't have a weapon and shooting them is no longer self defense.

Strict

Thanks for acknowledging the "IF THESE 2 WERE breaking and entering".

It just blows me away that so many people are willing to just go ahead and believe the guy whose hiding a couple of bodies in the basement without asking any further questions at all.

reply to post by PrestonSpace


Scared to death because he has just been through one of the most traumatic experiences of his life?

Scared to death of being killed himself because of what he did?

Scared to death of spending a life in prison...

Even if he were in the right he could still go to prison if he got the wrong jury...

Basically just scared witless is my guess, poor old guy...

He said he did not want to bother the police on Thanksgiving.....that is why he did not call the police...seems like a nice enough guy

Sorry to everyone that I think if someone intrudes into my home, I would like to find a way to protect my house, family, and myself without killing them if at all possible.

Oh wait, I'm not sorry at all. Because killing another person is always a tragedy.

it wasn't in the dead of night either....it was around noon on Thanksgiving

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

Sorry to everyone that I think if someone intrudes into my home, I would like to find a way to protect my house, family, and myself without killing them if at all possible. Oh wait, I'm not sorry at all. Because killing another person is always a tragedy.

You can choose to deal with the situation how you please... You can invite them for a cup of tea and share stories for all I care but you have to see that other people might want to deal with it differently. You have to respect their decision to do that.. I do not see why anyone should have to even risk their life in the slightest for someone that couldn't give a second thought for them! And could quite easily turn violent if confronted... That is all I am saying... I still haven't heard a good argument from you about this... Please tell me why they should?

I don't believe they broke into his house. I believe that it was a family visit -- I believe one of them was his cousin -- for the holiday that went horribly wrong because this man is clearly mentally ill. Massive overkill and self-defense are not the same, the whole bit about the girl "laughing" at him after already having been shot s just freaking creepy and suspicious, and the fact that he hid the bodies so as not to bother the police on Thanksgiving? I can't believe anybody is taking this guy's story at face value.

I can believe people are having a great time being internet tough guys at the merest hint of a chance, though. That part definitely rings true.

The guy who murdered the two kids will get his justice and go to jail. He deserves to go to jail.

In fact he probably deserves the death penalty really, as he obviously used excessive force and then covered up the murders by hiding the bodies.

Just another looney really. Yes he has the right to defend himself and his home, but .. were the kids armed?

Note.... These were just kids.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by PrestonSpace

 

Scared to death because he has just been through one of the most traumatic experiences of his life?

Scared to death of being killed himself because of what he did?

Scared to death of spending a life in prison...

Even if he were in the right he could still go to prison if he got the wrong jury...

Basically just scared witless is my guess, poor old guy...

If you get that scared and are unsure of yourself in that way you have no right owning a gun. If you are gonna kill someone in self defense it's your responsibility to inform the proper authorities.

Poor old guy? He stashed two dead bodies in his basement like a murderer would. It makes me think there is more to the story.

reply to post by sepermeru

I don't believe they broke into his house. I believe that it was a family visit -- I believe one of them was his cousin

You believe, but the police don't know?

for the holiday that went horribly wrong because this man is clearly mentally ill.

Wow, you must be good at psychology huh?

Massive overkill and self-defense are not the same, the whole bit about the girl "laughing" at him after already having been shot s just freaking creepy and suspicious,

I knew a guy that fought off 3-4 attackers, at one point he was on the ground having them all kicking the crap out of him... (the story was told to me by my other friends) They told me he was laughing his head off... Honestly this guy seemed like a geek to me, I would never think he could fight or take a beating... Some people are just not wired up right... I could see it happening if they were off key and on drugs, sure...

and the fact that he hid the bodies so as not to bother the police on Thanksgiving? I can't believe anybody is taking this guy's story at face value.

Yeah I just think he was scared witless and no doubt in shock... Maybe even PTSD?

I can believe people are having a great time being internet tough guys at the merest hint of a chance, though. That part definitely rings true.

It's not about that, it is just standing up for the guy that wanted to defend his home... Now look if the facts change later on to show that they didn't break in etc then my opinions would 180 obviously... But as it stands right now the police do not dispute the fact that they broke in looking for drugs...

reply to post by PrestonSpace


Exactly, he hid bodies, that is in no way indicative of self defense.

Didn't want to bother the authorities on thanksgiving? More like he needed time to concoct a story.

reply to post by PrestonSpace

If you get that scared and are unsure of yourself in that way you have no right owning a gun. If you are gonna kill someone in self defense it's your responsibility to inform the proper authorities.

These things are easy to say when it is not us in the situation... Yes he should of called the police afterwards though... Shock can do funny things to people though...

Poor old guy? He stashed two dead bodies in his basement like a murderer would. It makes me think there is more to the story.

Or just someone that is scared of how it will turn out? Scared of being arrested... Confused and shaken? If there is more to the story then my opinions will change... Right now it seems that they broke in looking for drugs and got killed.... The police do not dispute this as of yet...

I say he was justified making sure the threat was no more. You break into someone home you put your life in their hands. I have no pity for anyone that breaks into another person home.

reply to post by Osiris1953

Exactly, he hid bodies, that is in no way indicative of self defense. Didn't want to bother the authorities on thanksgiving? More like he needed time to concoct a story.

If this was the case he didn't do very well did he?

Edit: I mean he could of put a kitchen knife in their hands or even stabbed himself with it etc... But no, in the time he had to concoct a story he said that he shot them too many times and that he shot one of them again because she laughed the first time... Does it really sound like his plan was to make up a story to cover his murder?

reply to post by MidnightTide


Where he went wrong in most states (except NJ where you cannot defend your property or even your children) is he didn't immediately report and tried to cover up the incident. I will not say "crime" but the crime comes in with the failure to report the entire thing. Had he immediately reported they would have no leg to stand on, but he is definately within his rights to defend his home, except in NJ where Ted Bundy could rape you at gunpoint and you'd go to jail for kneeing him in the balls. Sorry but this kind of thing gets my blood boiling cause it's idiots like this who make dumb a&& choices like that that made frigging NJ have thier screwed up crappy laws and this will effect that state and maybe the rest of the country, we will all pay for his idiocy.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
Which states in America prosecute this type of crime as a capital offense?

None...but people being terrorized in thier homes are not thinking judicially they are thinking in survival terms.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
It's ridiculous to say that people who commit relatively petty crimes deserve to dies. I would agree that they deserve to go to prison for a few years, or maybe shot in the shoulder.

The laws are written to protect the resident (at least here in Missouri) against home intrusions.

Note: here in Missouri we have the castle doctrine, which states that any intruder in the home is presumed to be a threat (armed or unarmed is irrelevant) and the resident can shoot first, to kill or not without confronting the invaders. Killing is the best option for you as the resident becasue a dead man can tell not get on the stand and testify about how sad a life he had, that his daddy didn't love him, that he was getting a full ride to State U or whatever other BS the lawyers will gin-up to convince a jurry that the kid was just misunderstood.

Shot placement (or the questionable nature thereof after the fact) especially under duress while half awake, afraid and disoriented is not a burden with which the resident need concern themselves due to the stressful nature of any hostile encounter.

If one were an expert perhaps he’d be held to a reasonable standard of being able to make a snap judgment as to the actual threat of the intruders. However, most citizens are not experienced LEO's, Soldiers or combat veterans and therefore the law protects them from being liable for the death of someone who is not armed by the wording of the law which states that anyone in your home uninvited is presumed to be there with the intent to harm you.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
But there seems to be this concerning mentality in some Americans that anyone who trespasses is asking for a bullet in the head.

When one encounters an intruder in their home there is no time to have a discussion as to their intent. Hey, are you here to rape and kill my daughter or just to steal some stuff? The law gives the law abiding resident protection from the law breaking criminal who assumes full responsibility for his actions when he chooses to break the law.

I can assure you I will not be waiting to determine an intruder's intent. He will get one to the head and two to the chest. If he happens to be a 15 year old kid who wants to steal some stuff...he chose the wrong victim. I spent 24 years in the Army most of that time in Special Forces. I might feel bad after but since I have the law on my side I sure won't be hiding any bodies or anything like that.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
That's a savage mentality. You call the police, fire a warning shot maybe and tell them if they don't leave they are risking their lives.

What is savage is to break into someone’s home in the night and terrorize them with the uncertainly that comes from the act. The criminals have no one to blame but themselves for their deaths in these situations. Their parents have themselves to blame as well - I don't care if they were honor roll, all American's they are terrorists and criminals.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
Plus, this guy seemingly killed them out of anger, and not defense.

He's likely not in trouble for their deaths as much as he is for his actions after. Had he left them where they fall no one would have cared if he shot 100 times (providing his magazine were that large). A person under duress is not expected to shoot a certain number of shots.

Also, I’d have been angry for sure…

His problem is that he demonstrated by his actions after the shooting that he was not experiencing much duress at all.

If you got caught mid burglary I assume it was in a non-castle doctrine having State. You are a very lucky person to have a chance to come around. Perhaps knowing that you literally dodged a bullet was the catalyst you needed.

Honestly, people make mistakes and I accept that people can change; however, when it comes to my family I won't be gambling that the person in my home is just there for our stuff and unarmed. He won't get that chance from me.

Call me a savage if it suits you. I say again the savage is the person who terrorizes people in their homes.

reply to post by mee30


No he sure didn't. I see what you're getting at, but this whole story is just fishy.

We'll see how this develops, but really the old man did seem to go too far. If I end up being wrong then so be it.

As it stands the whole situation is more than suspicious, and if he is found not guilty of second degree murder, I will hold no ill will towards this man..... Either way, this situation is quite disturbing.