Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

reply to post by milominderbinder


Hey, guess what...I don't care what you look like, you break into my house (looking for prescription drugs) you ARE GOING TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. Yes, this man is run of the mill stupid, some of his actions will land him in jail. But the initial defense of the burglary, he was completely justified in my book.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, was at the hearing and said she wished Smith had fired a warning shot or called police instead of shooting.

Well, perhaps Brady's parents should have taught him not to steal.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by mee30

 

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody..

No, I think you said it.

And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice.

It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust.

Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

It has nothing to do with dispensing justice or bloodlust...that is just a bit of silly hyperbole. The issue is, that if you find intruders in your home in the middle of the night, a person has (or should) have the right to defend themselves. Nothing about "justice" or what the usual court sentence would be, because that is not the issue. The issue is about a free citizen being able to protect himself and his in the middle of the night. A law abiding citizen has this right and responsability and, our founding father would suggest, a duty to shoot a criminal in the dead of night. Those who fear getting shot, should not break in. Simple.

OTOH, if this man did administer a coupe de grace and did move the bodies before calling the police, then we have a murder, not a case of self defense. You are allowed to stop the threat by right. Once the threat is over and the person is down, finishing them off is murder. Sounds like this guy is going to end up at the wrong end of a needle if the allegations are true.

There is ZERO evidence that these kids were "intruders" or "broke in". All we have are the words of the same guy who was hiding bodies in his basement. Who also just so happens to claim that an 18 yr old with a dead cousin and one bullet in her already was "laughing" at how his gun jammed instead of "begging for her life" or "crying uncontrollably".

Does that sound plausible to you?

I have no sympathy for burglars.

If you decide to break into someone's home for whatever reason, then you deserve whatever comes your way. If it's 2 shells of buckshot then so be it.

It doesn't make a difference how old they were. They were old enough to know what they were doing.
The only thing I don't agree with is the hiding of the bodies. You should call police ASAP.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

No, I think you said it. And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice. It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust. Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

Nope I actually said I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I wouldn't... people have been traumatized VERY badly and need counseling and all sorts after being burgled... They are afraid to live in their own god damn home! They are afraid to go out! They are petrified... But you brush it of as no big deal, just a petty crime... As you claim these things I would like you to understand how bad it is... But STILL I really wouldn't want you or anyone to go through that... Surely you can just listen to other peoples testimony and understand?

Oh yes I would love people to break into my home... I live in the UK mate, we don't have the luxury of guns!!! Well I guess you can if you jump through all the hoops but it is pretty rare here for people to have guns...

Yes the home owner needs to be defended... His hand was forced into doing what he did...

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Hey, guess what...I don't care what you look like, you break into my house (looking for prescription drugs) you ARE GOING TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. Yes, this man is run of the mill stupid, some of his actions will land him in jail. But the initial defense of the burglary, he was completely justified in my book.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, was at the hearing and said she wished Smith had fired a warning shot or called police instead of shooting.

Well, perhaps Brady's parents should have taught him not to steal.

yes...BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THESE KIDS BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE, ATTEMPTED TO ROB HIM, OR WERE AFTER ANY PRESCRIPTION MEDS WHATSOEVER!!!!

As far as this case goes. He should be charged with first degree murder, no doubt about it. To execute that girl the way he did is just murder. No self defense in there at all.

However as far as shooting an intruder, it should be within everyones rights to do so. If you wait around to see if an intruder has a weapon its already to late and you are dead. Not that all homeowners should go for a kill shot but a leg or shoulder wound should be good enough.

If these 2 were breaking and entering and had time to laugh at him. He knew they didn't have a weapon and shooting them is no longer self defense.

Strict

Originally posted by muse7
I have no sympathy for burglars.

If you decide to break into someone's home for whatever reason, then you deserve whatever comes your way. If it's 2 shells of buckshot then so be it.

It doesn't make a difference how old they were. They were old enough to know what they were doing.
The only thing I don't agree with is the hiding of the bodies. You should call police ASAP.

Who says the broke into this guys house, anyways?

Originally posted by milominderbinder

The only "evidence" that these two kids were "robbing" anyone come from the unsubstantiated allegations of the same creepy old guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

So you're determined to judge the owner of the home by his appearance.

Ted Bundy anyone?

Originally posted by NavyDoc
The only problem with the story so far is that there is a possability he excecuted them after they were no longer a threat. If true, this evolves from reasonable defense of self and property and into the realm of murder. That the bodies were moved before the police were called does not bode well for the homeowner.

As for the whole "good kids and star pupil" nonsense, they say that about every juvenile criminal that gets shot. "Good kids" do not B&E by the very definition.

edit on 26-11-2012 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

And the basic idea that they broke into his house or attempted to rob him. There is no evidence presented which indicates that this was necessarily the case.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by mee30

 

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody..

No, I think you said it.

And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice.

It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust.

Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

It has nothing to do with dispensing justice or bloodlust...that is just a bit of silly hyperbole. The issue is, that if you find intruders in your home in the middle of the night, a person has (or should) have the right to defend themselves. Nothing about "justice" or what the usual court sentence would be, because that is not the issue. The issue is about a free citizen being able to protect himself and his in the middle of the night. A law abiding citizen has this right and responsability and, our founding father would suggest, a duty to shoot a criminal in the dead of night. Those who fear getting shot, should not break in. Simple.

OTOH, if this man did administer a coupe de grace and did move the bodies before calling the police, then we have a murder, not a case of self defense. You are allowed to stop the threat by right. Once the threat is over and the person is down, finishing them off is murder. Sounds like this guy is going to end up at the wrong end of a needle if the allegations are true.

There is ZERO evidence that these kids were "intruders" or "broke in". All we have are the words of the same guy who was hiding bodies in his basement. Who also just so happens to claim that an 18 yr old with a dead cousin and one bullet in her already was "laughing" at how his gun jammed instead of "begging for her life" or "crying uncontrollably".

Does that sound plausible to you?

I'm addressing two issues: one is the concept of being able to use deadly force in the dead of night against an intruder. I believe in this wholeheartedly.

The second is this particular case in which I said, if what is reported is true, then the man went from defense to murder and should be facing the death penalty. "Facing the wrong end of the needle" is what I said (in reference to lethal injection--they don't use "old sparky" any more). What of my stances are unreasonable to you?

Originally posted by milominderbinder
BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THESE KIDS BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE, ATTEMPTED TO ROB HIM, OR WERE AFTER ANY PRESCRIPTION MEDS WHATSOEVER!!!!

You know this how?

Same way you know the home owners a creep because of how he looks?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by milominderbinder

The only "evidence" that these two kids were "robbing" anyone come from the unsubstantiated allegations of the same creepy old guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

So you're determined to judge the owner of the home by his appearance.

Ted Bundy anyone?

No...not at all.

I judge him on the incoherent story he told the police which is simply not in any way, shape, or form believable.

the fact that he's creepy looking is just the icing on the cake.

After reading the article again there is no way this went down the way he said. He shot the boy and brought him down the stairs went and sat in his chair and then the girl came walking down the stairs after all of that. That girl would have been running away. Like she really would have laughed at him after he shot her and fell down the stairs. If anything she was laughing in relief that she wouldn't be shot again. This is so fishy I smell it from here.

Sounds more like a drug deal gone bad actually. The kids could have been buying pills from the guy & tried to snatch his pills and run. Something else happened in that house other than a break in.

Strict

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

I have to ask this question of you. Please tell me when someone who breaks into your house is no longer a threat? This is a serious question. If they live what is to prevent them coming back and killing you? They have already shown they do not care about the law, so what is to stop them from killing you? Especially if a gun does not frighten them? How do you know they are not on PCP and could kill you? There are many gangs of kids who think nothing at all of the law, your rights, or even if you live or die. How do you know they will not come back to kill you for stopping them? How do you tell these days?

reply to post by milominderbinder

Quite a few especially if they were on drugs. How many 18yr old girls do YOU know who break and enter? I knew a few of those too.

reply to post by milominderbinder

'If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,' Smith, 64, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

I couldn't agree more, obviously they are deranged and could be capable of anything... Who knows what they were on...

I don't think he's lying or telling the truth. What I think is that nobody here has even REMOTELY enough information to EITHER condemn nor acquit this guy of 2 counts of First Degree Murder.

The police seem to think they broke into his home. One would expect them to have some proof of that. Which is all I need to know. You don't mess about with people like this... In england murder needs to be thought out in advance, we would call this possible manslaughter... I think you call it second degree murder...

Look I know what you are saying, and I am speaking form the standpoint that they broke in... Was there any indication that they didn't?

Personally...I find the nutty old man hypothesis to far, FAR more plausible than a grown man of any age feeling "threatened" by an 110lb, unarmed, 18 yr old girl whose male cousin is already dead. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that an 18 year old girl with a dead cousin and one bullet in her already would be "laughing" at her shooter. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE, that "defending one's property" means putting ANOTHER bullet in this girls head AFTER she was already riddled full of bullets and on the ground gasping for breath.

You are preaching about not judging but already calling him creepy and nutty etc...

So you are telling me that when you hear footsteps above you that you know the age, weight, gender, and whether the person is armed or not? In this kind of situation it is fight or flight... He chose to fight and good on him... The guy is not psychic so he had no way to know their intentions or whether they were armed or not so this is irrelevant...

At the end of the day if you want to live don't brake into peoples houses!

Again...there is no evidence that they broke into this guys house, attempted to rob him, or threatened him in any way. If they DID...well...that would probably change my opinion. However...I'm not willing to invent evidence which has not been presented just so I can support a love of firearms.

The police seem to think they did... I didn't read anywhere in the article where that fact was being questioned...

I live in the UK, the only firearm I have shot is a BB gun when I was about 15! lmao... I just think that burglars are low lives...

reply to post by mee30

You say you would do this and that, but I bet if it came to it you would cower in the corner sobbing...

It wasn't meant as an insult, I really believe you would...

Um,

I'd hate to see what your insults sound like....

And yeah, nice job finding a bunch of extreme examples and generalizing people who rob houses incorrectly. The individuals in the OP had no violent history, and the people in all of your examples would be more aptly described as rapists, not robbers.

Here's some more accurate information:

About half of all robberies involve a weapon of some type, with a gun being the main weapon of choice

www.globalsecurityexperts.com...

So about half of robbers use a weapon..

I can't find any statistics on the number of robberies that also include rape/homicide, but rest assured it is very low. Sure, someone enters your home they might be the worst possible person. But they probably aren't, and if you are armed you can probably get them out of your house without killing them...and if they don't leave or attempt to shoot back, sure fire away.

Usually, robbers aren't entering a home with the intent of violence..and in this case they certainly were not.


And despite your attempt to backpedal, I'd reccommend not stooping to insulting those who disagree with you. Just not a real likeable quality

If people would just think before they do things, just for a minute.

If we lose our right to defend our homes with Deadly Force, There's NOTHING to deter them, Nothing.
The Police take to long,and when they do show up...They might shoot you !
They WILL shoot your pet. Or maybe your Child.
When it's all said and done, It is sad but, It must be this way.
Or we will be at the mercy of Criminals who have no mercy.

Originally posted by minniesoda
they were no longer a threat to him after he shot them the first time....he then executed them
then not reporting it to the police....something is not right with this story

You're right.
It's criminal.
You have to aim center mass and then call the police to haul off the corpses.
If he'd been properly trained then he'd have known that.


By the way, how does the term "Popular Students" play into this.
Is that an indication that there would be no outrage if the students were unpopular?

Note to self, NEVER laugh at someone who has already shot you once.

reply to post by milominderbinder

Yes it does sound likely if she was like the girls I grew up with. You must have grown up in a nice neighborhood.