Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

Originally posted by stanislav
Who said that aliens visiting planet earth is a wide spread belief? Also it doesn't make it true even if 50 percent or more believed aliens were real. We have 2 billion Muslims who believe in Allah, does it make it true? No.
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

Err i think you COMPLETELY misunderstood what i said. I never said "aliens visiting planet earth is a wide spread belief" , I said LESS than 50% believe visiting aliens are real.

Therefore the accepted / popular belief is that they are NOT visiting. So anyone who does think they are visiting is a skeptic as the definition of a skeptic is someone who "doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs".

But like ArMaP said because they might not doubt the authenticity of accepted beliefs they might not be true skeptics.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Interesting, if a skeptic is someone "who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs" then the people who believe in visiting aliens are the skeptics as most polls say less than 50% of people think this is the case.

Yes, that's true, the only difference is that the people who believe in visiting aliens are sceptic about some things but not about other things, so they are not really sceptics.

So by rights someone who does not believe in visiting aliens should not be called a skeptic because its not the accepted / popular belief and especially if they dont automatically disbelieve any other known fact they are presented with.

I guess the word Skeptics has been wrongly used all these years by people with an alien agenda writing books / lectures & documentaries to discredit people who disagree with them and make it seem that the visiting alien theory is the accepted belief in the world today.

I doubt there was ever a scientific poll to find out how many people believe in aliens and how many do not. People who are skeptical of alien visitation are anybody who follows basic common sense. If you can't see it , measure it, record it, hear it , feel it then at this stage is not part of the overall reality. We suppose aliens might be visiting us but it lacks any evidence. Lets learn how to separate belief and factuality.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

Originally posted by stanislav
I doubt there was ever a scientific poll to find out how many people believe in aliens and how many do not. People who are skeptical of alien visitation are anybody who follows basic common sense. If you can't see it , measure it, record it, hear it , feel it then at this stage is not part of the overall reality. We suppose aliens might be visiting us but it lacks any evidence. Lets learn how to separate belief and factuality.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

There's a top doco from through the wormhole. It's called did we invent god or did god invent us. If people try to get past the reference to "god" then there is a lot to learn about belief systems. Including the alien stuff. There were some amazing "experiments" being done on both kids and adults. It might even shake the belief systems of some people. Definitely worth tracking down and watching.

I suppose there could be wide variety of documentaries in which scientists may pose such questions as; Does God exist? Is there life after death? But these are more of philosophical questions rather than scientific.

We can theorize all day long here about the existence of God or life after death but we cannot prove any of our theories until we start using scientific methods (logical, analytical approach) to explain these mysteries. Whether you like it or not the only way to prove something to be real is through rigorous scientific attempts. I don't think our civilization would have been where it is today if it wasn't for humanity evolving intellectually.

reply to post by steve1709


THIS SUIT IS BLACK, NOT!

reply to post by stanislav


Preaching to the chior stan

That's why I mentioned the doco. They are trying to set up reproducable (sp?) expts to explain how the brain perceives stuff, even reality. Too much great info to put here or even for me to explain without me getting tongue tied. (unfortunately, my grey matter is on its last legs. Bl00dy age, I hate gettin old) They are trying to go past the philosophy, (which I see as a good thing to do) I wish I had have grabbed the names of those setting up the expts.

Wonderful! Thank you! I will go ahead and download it, watch it and will respond accordingly.

Originally posted by steve1709
reply to post by stanislav

 

Preaching to the chior stan

That's why I mentioned the doco. They are trying to set up reproducable (sp?) expts to explain how the brain perceives stuff, even reality. Too much great info to put here or even for me to explain without me getting tongue tied. (unfortunately, my grey matter is on its last legs. Bl00dy age, I hate gettin old) They are trying to go past the philosophy, (which I see as a good thing to do) I wish I had have grabbed the names of those setting up the expts.

Beliefs..get in the way of learning.

During Galileo's time, the clergy refused to even LOOK through his telescope because of the belief they derived from scripture that the earth was the center of the solar system.

Beliefs will color and distort the ability to reason. Further, because beliefs are so emotionally charged owing to their ties to people's secure world-view, the result is a double-whammy on critical thinking.

Interestingly, some of the worst offenders are scientists themselves who ought to know better but are so married to pet theories (beliefs and emotions again) that they can't help themselves. Indeed, sometimes the old generation has to die off before new ideas can unfold.

To know and not act, is to not know.

well my username might suggest that I don't but I'm actually a firm believer in ET life and other civilizations. Science has played a great role in minimizing the "Doubts" and "Disbeliefs" but I'm sure with the passage of time we'll all become believers sooner than later ....

Your initial part of your post was well written until the last part. It appears almost like a contradictory to what you previously said. Please give me name of one authentic scientist who is so convinced of their own "beliefs" that they vehemently refuse to open their mind to see new possibilities. No educated person will allow themselves to look into something they believe will not yield provable outcome. On the contrary I can find you many religious people who refuse factual reality everyday of the week. I think going to church every week is just one example of the delusion we human being are still engaging in. And even if there was a separate creator to our universe, I personally highly doubt it would look kindly upon such malarkey displayed by "his" own creation.

Originally posted by gguyx
Beliefs..get in the way of learning.

During Galileo's time, the clergy refused to even LOOK through his telescope because of the belief they derived from scripture that the earth was the center of the solar system.

Beliefs will color and distort the ability to reason. Further, because beliefs are so emotionally charged owing to their ties to people's secure world-view, the result is a double-whammy on critical thinking.

Interestingly, some of the worst offenders are scientists themselves who ought to know better but are so married to pet theories (beliefs and emotions again) that they can't help themselves. Indeed, sometimes the old generation has to die off before new ideas can unfold.

To know and not act, is to not know.

It explicitly states in your username that you want to believe (even though you spelled it wrong). That is what so many new age types are engaged in. Make belief, wishful thinking etc ... They want to believe even if their beliefs lacks of any evidence, unless you want to count in anecdotal evidence which is no evidence at all but a hearsay.

So when someone can't find definitive evidence but they still wish to believe, what do they do? They start looking for them in all the wrong places. They assume that if a lot of people have a lot of stories about seeing aliens, coming into contact with them, that this must be sufficient enough to convince them of its validity. They also assume that their own alien experiences prove to them that the phenomena must be real.

I have had my own share of experiences and I can honestly tell you that I simply do not know what they were. I can only speculate at this point but nothing else beyond it.

Originally posted by Iwanttobeleaf
well my username might suggest that I don't but I'm actually a firm believer in ET life and other civilizations. Science has played a great role in minimizing the "Doubts" and "Disbeliefs" but I'm sure with the passage of time we'll all become believers sooner than later ....

Originally posted by stanislav
Like I said in my previous post , it is my believe that even so called hardcore skeptics , atheists and such would definitely change their opinion if there were evidence as I think most people who follow common sense do not just disbelieve something to fit their agenda however religious people like OP, are.

Real sceptics are always updating their opinions based on the information they get, that's why they (we) are always asking for more information.

PS: I'm an atheist because I don't see a reason for the existence of one or more gods, but, as with anything else, if someone shows information about it/them being real it's possible that my opinion will change.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that, could you please rephrase it?
Thanks in advance.

reply to post by ArMaP


I would say that people who require solid evidence before believing in the existence of visiting aliens have been wrongly labeled as Skeptics by the people who are trying to profit off the UFO scene though books ,lectures etc.

Labeling anyone who doesnt agree with them as a 'skeptic' serves two purposes.

1 - To try to discredit their views on the subject
2 - Suggest that the belief in visiting aliens is the 'accepted' belief in the world today. As a skeptic by definition is someone who disbelieves in the accepted beliefs on any subject.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by ArMaP

 

I would say that people who require solid evidence before believing in the existence of visiting aliens have been wrongly labeled as Skeptics by the people who are trying to profit off the UFO scene though books ,lectures etc.

Labeling anyone who doesnt agree with them as a 'skeptic' serves two purposes.

1 - To try to discredit their views on the subject
2 - Suggest that the belief in visiting aliens is the 'accepted' belief in the world today. As a skeptic by definition is someone who disbelieves in the accepted beliefs on any subject.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

No.

ATS is not mainstream.

A sceptic on ATS disbelieves the accepted conspiracy beliefs, but in fact it's pretty mainstream to not believe a lot of what's accepted as true on ATS.

But, really, sceptic is used as a more generic term e.g. "a person who mistrusts people, ideas, etc., in general"
www.thefreedictionary.com...

And it's in that sense that most people are using it here...

Calling someone a sceptic isn't REALLY an attempt to discredit people, when it comes to UFO and the mainstream media... more likely would be an attempt to discredit someone by claiming they DID believe in UFOs, as that's seen as less acceptible in the mainstream... at least among the serious...

reply to post by longlostbrother


Yes like i said people who dont believe in visiting aliens are 'wrongly' labeled because it not the 'accepted' belief that we are being visited.

The definition on the link you provided is : "a person who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs"

another : "a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual. "

Its a word that is used wrongly just like when people talk about UFO's. A UFO is something that cant be identified but its implied that it means flying saucers. So when we hear about authorities looking into UFO's which could just mean they are trying to protect their airspace from foreign powers by investigating anything in the air they cant identify, people who make a living off books and lectures concerning an alien agenda turn it around and try to imply they are investigating flying saucers and visiting space ships. The misused of these words is largely down to people trying to promote their alien agenda for profit.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Thanks, I understand it now.

I think most believers use the word "sceptic" as if it mean "disbeliever", while, according to me, it means someone who doubts our understanding of things is as good as possible and thinks that we can always get closer to the truth, even if we never get to the whole truth, so we question everything.

When dealing with common things, what is questioned is the accepted view of something, but in topics like alien visitation, where there isn't a real accepted and official view, the only thing we can question is what the witnesses report, so we are seen as an "enemy of the cause" instead of being seen as someone external to any "cause" that just wants to get better knowledge.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Yes like i said people who dont believe in visiting aliens are 'wrongly' labeled because it not the 'accepted' belief that we are being visited.

The definition on the link you provided is : "a person who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs"

another : "a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual. "

Its a word that is used wrongly just like when people talk about UFO's. A UFO is something that cant be identified but its implied that it means flying saucers. So when we hear about authorities looking into UFO's which could just mean they are trying to protect their airspace from foreign powers by investigating anything in the air they cant identify, people who make a living off books and lectures concerning an alien agenda turn it around and try to imply they are investigating flying saucers and visiting space ships. The misused of these words is largely down to people trying to promote their alien agenda for profit.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

That's ONE of the definitions at that link.

Words can have more than one similar meaning... it gets hard discussing a word like sceptic on a place like ATS.

As for UFO.. the term, while it does literally stand for "unidentified flying object" was coined by a UFO-ologist and was meant to describe alien crafts from pretty much day one.

en.wikipedia.org...

Sceptics of the UFO alien connection have attempted to reclaim the term to it's more literal meaning, but... well... good luck to them...

I know what you mean re: sceptic, but it's only in the fringe that sceptic is a term of derision... and really caring what the fringe think is not gonna get you anywhere...

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Im calling out all the Non-believers and skeptics personally; to understand why they do not believe in Extraterrestrial and other unknown phenomena.

Why dont you believe starships, extraterrestrial life, energy, mind power, and multiple dimensions of reality? What makes you belive these things do not exist in all of creation?

I at some point believed there was something more behind the UFO phenomenon. After countless of "UFO documentaries" and books I was left with nothing concrete: just same repeating rumors, innuendo, testimonies, stories, blurry photos and more or less elaborate hoaxes - most disappointing one being the Disclosure Project ran by Mr. Stephen Green.

Also I got tired of the whole UFO cult with abductions nobody ever saw or alien races which no-one had similarly ever any proof of. Did not get anymore interested about endless stream of pictures of something that looks like a lampshade and debating have the pixels of that poor-quality photo been altered or not. Got exhausted of hearing the implausible explanations of why "they" are here - but we cannot show that "they" are - or why the UFO's never fly over any major cities so everyone can see them and end all doubt.

Believing in UFO's is much more exiting than not believing - but the evidence is overwhelming. And despite what the believers say latter is unfortunately not favoring the UFO community.

Well said.

reply to post by PhoenixOD