Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
Only that people of limited minds, that cannot admit obvious possibilities aren't worth talking to.

Hey, my name is Jodi.. just thought I'd introduce myself first. LOL I think it is easy to say people have limited minds, but it seems from what I have read in this thread that the skeptics have left open the possibility that it could be 'something', be it alien, nature, god, the flying spaghetti monster, ect.. whatever, kwim? I am a skeptic of all things in life. I grew up in a very Christian famly, that was my very first lesson in becoming a skeptic. I was told to believe something that for all intents and purposes seemed very unbelievable. I didn't buy it and what some believers saw as 'proof' I saw as just a fable story told in a book written by men in a time where they had no way to know the things we do now. I just simply couldn't be apart of that belief system because most of it defied logic and had no proof.

I am the same way with everything in life though. If I see or experience something out of the usual then sure I leave open the possibility to the unknown/mysterious/alien/ect.. but that isn't the same thing as jumping on ship and preaching it is absolute fact. I promise you, I am a believer of many things. Give you an example.. I dreamed of all my kids ( I have four boys) well before I ever had them. Hell I had those dreams back in 4-7th grade way before even met their father, my husband, in high school. I don't know how to explain that one. I have seen things in plain day that made no sense, I saw what looked like some sort of ship just about 5 blocks from our house. It was spinning, flipping and turning every which direction and not like a plane does. I don't know what it was, but me and my boy watched it for the longest time. Maybe it was military, maybe it was alien.. simple fact is, I DON'T KNOW! How could I possibly know, I can surmise, but I can't just jump to believing it was aliens.

I leave open the possibility of believing anything, I just require more proof than the average bear who already wants desperately to believe in something outside of themselves, that's all.

Please know I have not said this in a confrontational way at all, just trying to have a polite discussion.

reply to post by MaMaa


Thanks for that MaMaa (Jodi), excellent post.

I think it is possible to have a civilized discussion about individual beliefs and hopefully this thread can get back to some semblance of reasonable discourse.

reply to post by MaMaa


Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

Ok, where exactly in MaMaa's post did she offer any sort of opinion about you? It seems to me that she was speaking mostly of the skeptical, not you individually. Don't let imagined slights cloud your reason.

Originally posted by Slave2Fate

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

Anyone else noticing a pattern...?

Ok, where exactly in MaMaa's post did she offer any sort of opinion about you? It seems to me that she was speaking mostly of the skeptical, not you individually. Don't let imagined slights cloud your reason.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

I am really sorry that you think I was jumping on any bandwagon. I have not accused you of anything and I'm sorry if that is how it came across. I don't know you from Adam, I have no opinion of you or your beliefs. I was simply stating my position/beliefs on the OP. Admittedly I have not read every single post in this thread, life is pretty busy these days so I don't have the time.

I was not trying to offend you and I apologize if I did.

Having made a couple of comments earlier on this thread and followed it through with

interest till now....when It appears to have lost the original point and disintergrated into the

personal view of one particular poster with a 'very large chip on their shoulder'

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

I am really sorry that you think I was jumping on any bandwagon. I have not accused you of anything and I'm sorry if that is how it came across. I don't know you from Adam, I have no opinion of you or your beliefs. I was simply stating my position/beliefs on the OP. Admittedly I have not read every single post in this thread, life is pretty busy these days so I don't have the time.

I was not trying to offend you and I apologize if I did.

You're apologizing to the boy who cried wolf, for not killing an imaginary wolf.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

The mods won't like this but, you're an idiot.
I'm sorry, you don't understand basic skills of conversation and think everyone's attacking you. No ones attacked you, I've said countless times I except the possibility of extraterrestrial life, if you've got nothing to hide, what's wrong with being asked for evidence? If anything that's a compliment, you're being given a chance.
What makes you think she didn't come to her own conclusion? The way you talk to people is rude and ignorant.

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by MaMaa

 

Your opinion of me is another case of jumping on the bandwagon. You cannot find anything of the presumptions you accused me of from me or from my posts on my beliefs.

Clearly, you read these other posters opinions of me and believed it, instead of going back to the original post that I wrote that so obviously offended their black/white mentality.

Deny Ignorance.

I am really sorry that you think I was jumping on any bandwagon. I have not accused you of anything and I'm sorry if that is how it came across. I don't know you from Adam, I have no opinion of you or your beliefs. I was simply stating my position/beliefs on the OP. Admittedly I have not read every single post in this thread, life is pretty busy these days so I don't have the time.

I was not trying to offend you and I apologize if I did.

You did nothing wrong.

And that's the absolute truth.

I am a skeptic, however my mom is disbeliever. How could anyone say or imply that they are the same thing?
It makes no sense to group the two together. The question could have been asked many different ways that would have not have come off as so confrontational.
For my personal beliefs, it is not as simple an explanation as I would like to make it. I believe that each individual person experiences anything and everything differently. Differences in biology as well as differences in consciousness (self awareness/the mind/whatever you call it) are as different as each individual person. I also believe that each person who experiences any type of phenomenon is likely to try to make sense of there experience in the most rational way that their own consciousness can accept. Unfortunately my beliefs make me skeptical of everything. It also makes it easier for me to understand how some are devout believers or total disbelievers.
I have been sitting here for a long time to try to explain in a clear way what I mean so that it can be understood without offending anyone and I don't think I can so..here goes.
My belief on UFOs. I completely believe that they exist. Unidentified flying objects are the easiest of things to prove beyond any doubt. My sons' see them everyday. To me, it's a plane. Just because we don't know what something is, does not make it "alien" or "supernatural" in origin. That also doesn't mean that it's not. Doing research on things like that is really difficult. Do I doubt when anyone says that they saw a UFO, no way. I believe them. When they say they know it's an alien craft, I don't believe them. I live near VAFB. They shoot stuff off into space all the time. They also run drills with jets. They do it at night and during the day. They don't always update their website or alert the media all the time. They have scientist running experiments all the time on different aspects of a ton of different things. Not just for war but to make our lives better. Easier cheaper ways to gather information and all kinds of things I can't think of. I don't believe that the roswell crash was a weather balloon, but it could have been. I don't think it was aliens either, but it could have been. I don't have enough information to make a definative opinion either way. With the way it has been handled by both the government and by media, I don't know who or what to believe. But that's my belief, I am not demanding that you believe what I believe or that I am right. I could be wrong. To me that's the difference between a skeptic, believer and a nonbeliever. A skeptic admits that they might be wrong. A believer or non believer is hoping that they are not.

Sorry but I am a bit confused here. How do you define skeptic? Let me bring up the official definition for skeptic:

skep·tic also scep·tic (skptk) n. 1. One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions. 2. One inclined to skepticism in religious matters. 3. Philosophy a. often Skeptic An adherent of a school of skepticism. b. Skeptic A member of an ancient Greek school of skepticism, especially that of Pyrrho of Elis (360?-272? b.c.).

So to me disbeliever is just another word for skeptic. I do not believe in something that does not make sense (lack of logic, lack of evidence), something that is not provable. So until then I will remain skeptical but open minded to the possibility.

Originally posted by stanislav
Sorry but I am a bit confused here. How do you define skeptic? Let me bring up the official definition for skeptic:

skep·tic also scep·tic (skptk) n. 1. One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions. 2. One inclined to skepticism in religious matters. 3. Philosophy a. often Skeptic An adherent of a school of skepticism. b. Skeptic A member of an ancient Greek school of skepticism, especially that of Pyrrho of Elis (360?-272? b.c.).

So to me disbeliever is just another word for skeptic. I do not believe in something that does not make sense (lack of logic, lack of evidence), something that is not provable. So until then I will remain skeptical but open minded to the possibility.

edit on 1-12-2012 by stanislav because: (no reason given)

I see the two as being different. To be a skeptic means that you question, doubt, disagrees with the normal, ect.. but it doesn't outright disbelieve something. If I disbelieve something then I do not believe it as fact. It isn't a matter of doubt, but rather an outright disbelief of whatever the subject may be. But like you I am skeptical and always leave open the possibility that it is 'something'...whatever the heck that may end up being. Essentially it isn't that I disbelieve in aliens, unknown, mysterious whatever, I simply have not been convinced of something being without a doubt factual.

Originally posted by stanislav
So to me disbeliever is just another word for skeptic.

Not to me.

To me, a disbeliever may have many reasons (religious, personal, political, etc.) for not believing in something, but his/her disbelief is based on something he/she thinks.

A sceptic should not believe or disbelieve in something based on his/her reasons, he/she should be as neutral as possible when analysing any situation.

But this is just my opinion.

reply to post by stanislav


Interesting, if a skeptic is someone "who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs" then the people who believe in visiting aliens are the skeptics as most polls say less than 50% of people think this is the case. As long as general opinion is we are not being visited by aliens to disbelieve that would make you a skeptic.

Maybe so but I see these two insepriable. People who do not believe in something because of lack of evidence are not disbelievers. This term was probably concocted by religious zealots who passionately opposed atheism. I have difficult time to believe that even the most hardcore atheists would keep denying existence of god or aliens or anything paranormal if it was to be proven real. On the other side of the token believers of faith keep denying contrary to lack of evidence.
reply to post by MaMaa

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Interesting, if a skeptic is someone "who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs" then the people who believe in visiting aliens are the skeptics as most polls say less than 50% of people think this is the case.

Yes, that's true, the only difference is that the people who believe in visiting aliens are sceptic about some things but not about other things, so they are not really sceptics.

Like I said in my previous post , it is my believe that even so called hardcore skeptics , atheists and such would definitely change their opinion if there were evidence as I think most people who follow common sense do not just disbelieve something to fit their agenda however religious people like OP, are. They believe because they want to. It's wishful thinking, they all have personal agenda.
reply to post by ArMaP

Who said that aliens visiting planet earth is a wide spread belief? Also it doesn't make it true even if 50 percent or more believed aliens were real. We have 2 billion Muslims who believe in Allah, does it make it true? No.
reply to post by PhoenixOD

To my knowlage if you are skeptical but also a believer in metaphysics it makes you agnostic. I guess I can call myself that too.

reply to post by ArMaP