Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

All I am going to say is it is logical that something other then Humans exist in the Universe, Think about it...

...How many planets do you think exist in the universe? We have a guess, but I bet it's not even close to a factual number. That being said I am open to the idea of alien life.

-SAP-

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
All I am going to say is it is logical that something other then Humans exist in the Universe, Think about it...
-SAP-

Few would dispute this.

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
All I am going to say is it is logical that something other then Humans exist in the Universe, Think about it...


...How many planets do you think exist in the universe? We have a guess, but I bet it's not even close to a factual number. That being said I am open to the idea of alien life.

-SAP-

Well that all depends on how easy it is for life to spontaneously happen given the right conditions. At the moment he have not go a clue how easy it is because all life on this planet from the viruses to humans and trees all share a single common ancestor. We will never know for sure until we find some other form of life that didn't come for our single shared ancestor.

So it is not logical..its just hopeful. But it is illogical to state that life must exist based on the HOPE that life will spontaneously happen just because there's lots of planet out there. At least until we find understand more on how life started in the first place on the planet earth.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
All I am going to say is it is logical that something other then Humans exist in the Universe, Think about it...


...How many planets do you think exist in the universe? We have a guess, but I bet it's not even close to a factual number. That being said I am open to the idea of alien life.

-SAP-

Well that all depends on how easy it is for life to spontaneously happen given the right conditions. At the moment he have not go a clue how easy it is because all life on this planet from the viruses to humans and trees all share a single common ancestor. We will never know for sure until we find some other form of life that didn't come for our single shared ancestor.

So it is not logical..its just hopeful. But it is illogical to think that it must exist just because there's lots of planet out there. At least until we find understand more on how life started in the first place on the planet earth.

I'm not disagreeing with you and everyone is entitle to their own opinion. To me though I just seems logical.



-SAP-

reply to post by PhoenixOD
We can imagine that the presence of life on this planet could be unique. But that is no reason to conclude that it is. The safe bet would be to presume that it is not. It would be more difficult to explain why the conditions for life are unique to the earth.

Originally posted by Tearman
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

We can imagine that the presence of life on this planet could be unique. But that is no reason to conclude that it is. The safe bet would be to presume that it is not. It would be more difficult to explain why the conditions for life are unique to the earth.

Because there is no other evidence of life happening spontaneously on our planet where all the conditions are what we consider 'good' for life its anything but a safe bet at this point.

You cant presume something based with no evidence to back it up.

Im not saying that there is no life out there, but its not a safe bet and its wrong to presume there is because we haven't even found life on our own planet that didnt come for our shared ancestor. There no imagining about it..so far life on this planet is unique until we find evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

Originally posted by Tearman
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

We can imagine that the presence of life on this planet could be unique. But that is no reason to conclude that it is. The safe bet would be to presume that it is not. It would be more difficult to explain why the conditions for life are unique to the earth.

No , because there is no other evidence of life happening spontaneously on our planet where all the conditions are what we consider 'good' for life its anything but a safe bet at this point.

You can presume something based with no evidence to back it up.

Im not saying that there is no life out there, but its not a safe bet and its wrong to presume there is because we haven't even found life on our own planet that didnt come for our shared ancestor. ...

edit on 24-11-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

I think there's probably a good reason for that last point. Imagine that the development of life is rare enough that by the second and all subsequent times it has happened on the earth, the new "life" would be so far behind in the evolutionary race that they would have basically no chance of competing with the established life that already dominated the environment. They'd probably be destroyed before they had a chance to find a foot hold. Probably why all existing life shares a common ancestor.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

DO you have empirical evidence of the potential of your mind?

.. I dont think you do.

reply to post by Tearman


I agree thats a possibility, and i hope one day we can find evidence of life on this planet that doesnt come for our a shared ancestor because it would almost guarantee life is out there somewhere.

As a skeptic, I have a simple rule.
I don't want to believe in anything...I want to acknowledge it.

Acknowledge comes from proof, evidence, hell, even subjective personal evidence that I tried to falsify myself..it doesn't have to be written in peer reviewed journals, but it should be pretty heavy on the evidence..at least subjectively for myself.

As far as ET: I tend to acknowledge the potential..and want to believe...it makes sense (other species, other planets, other levels..ya, not a mind blower there).

as far as ESP and the like...I have yet to see anything hard and concrete that at least proves intentional controllable phenomona..but I keep an open mind about the subject. I do tend to dismiss absoluteist "fortune telling" stuff, only because its a bit preposterous..the idea of flawlessly telling the future in itself creates a paradox.

I think you dismiss proper skepticism incorrectly. a skeptic is very open minded by nature...however, a skeptic isn't seeking something to believe in..they are seeking something to acknowledge as fact...and the only way to get to that point is to smash down belief to see if they can pull what facts remain.

And one last thing to think about. If not for skeptics and debunkers, your desire to learn more about aliens, psychic phenomona, etc would have gotten you burned at the stake for dabbling in sorcery and blasphemy.

Skeptics do not stop exploration into the strange...actually, they accomidate it..but when those whom pretend to have the knowledge try to enforce their imagination or experiences on others, thats when a skeptics job is truely at its best...

reply to post by SloAnPainful


The drake equation proves absolutely nothing because Drake just guess some of the numbers for the equation and there is no evidence that even allow guessing.

from wiki

fl = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life

Countering this argument is that there is no evidence for abiogenesis occurring more than once on the Earth—that is, all terrestrial life stems from a common origin. If abiogenesis were more common it would be speculated to have occurred more than once on the Earth. Scientists have searched for this by looking for bacteria that are unrelated to other life on Earth, but none have been found yet. It is also possible that life arose more than once, but that other branches were out-competed, or died in mass extinctions, or were lost in other ways. Biochemists Francis Crick and Leslie Orgel laid special emphasis on this uncertainty: "At the moment we have no means at all of knowing" whether we are "likely to be alone in the galaxy (Universe)" or whether "the galaxy may be pullulating with life of many different forms.".

But i think we are getting a bit off topic here.. ill just leave it at that and let the OP get back on track

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

Well I think you are lumping all sorts of groups all together here, even individuals... For instance some people MAY believe in ghosts but not aliens, for their own reasons... Some may believe nothing at all...

I believe there is life on other planets, I wouldn't even speculate on the advancement of this life, for all you know WE could be the most advanced...

I do not think aliens have visited... WHY do I think that? No not because I have not seen them with my own eyes! It is because there is no credible evidence! Plenty of hearsay from people that write books and attend seminars and such, but if someone is charging you HAVE to question their motives...

Everyone has cameras these days but STILL there is no conclusive proof!

I am looking for PROOF and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to find some... Just haven't yet, until then I stay a skeptic. What other choice do you have? BELIEVE the words of others? Nah, that sounds a little like a religion to me!

So now I have answered you, please answer me... What is your very best piece of proof that convinced YOU?

Again your trying to perceive something (a higher intelligent life form then yourself - human) that you have not experienced. Though the extraterrestrial being has witnessed other life forms, seen the galaxy and maybe beyond.

Your are being ignorant to what would be their intelligence, as you think we know everything about creation already.. they would not allow the surface race to expose them. They can blend with space and possibly travel between levels of reality or dimensions.

How are we suppose to have evidence of this? We can barely get off our own planet, and those who have been in space; we are suppose to take their word that they havent witnessed anything "intelligent" lurking in the darkness of space near Earth...
But we have astronauts who have admitted seeing things in space..

If YOU reading this right now; were on board a full out starscraft, was an experienced space traveller, super intelligent being who has been keeping an eye on Earth.. YOUR perception would not be as limited as a being who lives on the surface of a planet and has never experienced anything outside of it.

Its about PERCEPTION. How you see and feel in reality; when your not using your given mind to its potential... your not going to understand this creation you were born into very well. You will have to follow science and continue to look outside of yourself for answers until "death".

Science hasnt had an alien, spacecraft or observed anything of the like (that we know of in the public domain). So science cant say for fact these things do not exist.
Then automatically those who follow science will write off these phenomena.. they havent been experienced, therefore perceived, therefore we dont know anything about it, so it cant exist.

Meanwhile people are people abducted, having visions, dreams, observing lights in the sky or full out crafts...

ITS IGNORANCE! TO THE MIND! Understand your god given MIND, and its capacity to do other things then visualize and think... this part of the extraterrestrial being makes the DIFFERENCE from a Hu-man. Using the MIND to its potential, and NOT waisting thought energy on useless stuff like Hollywood, work, conspiracies, sports, habits etc..

reply to post by Xtrozero


There's plenty of "proof" if u care to look.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

DO you have empirical evidence of the potential of your mind?

..

I dont think you do.

Actually, yes, I do.
I've thoroughly attended University, launched a successful professional career, and occupy myself with a sundry variety of wonderful pursuits, projects, and interests to fill my time, all to my full potential, and if you have NOT done so yourself, then, I'm quite certain your position regarding 'full potential' is well founded in consideration of lack of 12+ years of University, and all that follows.

Further, periodic IQ testing, as well as personal/professional research/work on developing a more accurate applied model covering aspects and attributes not currently covered in the model for the measurement of cognitive potential, as well as academic and professional experience in working with, examining, observing, testing, and modeling mammalian brain activity with potentiations certainly gives a window into what is and is not possible.

Additionally, I suspect your own position, based primarily on faith and belief has some foundation in the We only use 10% of our Brain MYTH..

Fact of the matter is, we use all our brain all the time.

Of course, if you really believe we only use a small fraction of our brains, you are more than welcome to perform a demonstration of this wonderful fantasy by excising the 90% of your brain you don't use.
You could do this with a power drill at home. I'm sure the new cerebral air conditioning and ventilation that results will make hot summers all the more bearable. (Disclaimer: I don't actually recommend any such action by anyone as such action would likely result in permanent damage and/or death)

One can, of course, perform such experiments on animals, though I can sum it up and spoil any suspense you may have by telling you that if you start cutting even tiny sections out of the brains of any animal, it typically doesn't bode well for the animal.
Once again; We use all our brains all the time.

I suspect, however, you lack the conviction, education, training and/or facility to demonstrate and/or supply any verifiable testable data that supports your position.

Back to you.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by randomtangentsrme

 

The entire point of the thread is calling out the skeptics and non believers.. so we can understand what it is about reality that they DONT believe.

We already know how crazy people are who DO believe. This thread IS NOT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE. Clearly read the title and the OP to understand this

SO...the entire point of your thread is calling out the skeptics and non believers...so that

we (that will be the believers?:puz can understand WHAT it is that the non believers

(the skeptics) DONT believe? .


I left out the word 'reality' because 'reality' is precisely what the skeptic believes in....After

all over the last 10 or so years reality is, that almost if not everyone has access to a mobile

phone camera and inspite all the sightings of UFO's and Aliens not one photo to stand up

to scrutiny??

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

DO you have empirical evidence of the potential of your mind?

..

I dont think you do.

Actually, yes, I do.
I've thoroughly attended University, launched a successful professional career, and occupy myself with a sundry variety of wonderful pursuits, projects, and interests to fill my time, all to my full potential, and if you have NOT done so yourself, then, I'm quite certain your position regarding 'full potential' is well founded in consideration of lack of 12+ years of University, and all that follows.

Further, periodic IQ testing, as well as personal/professional research/work on developing a more accurate applied model covering aspects and attributes not currently covered in the model for the measurement of cognitive potential, as well as academic and professional experience in working with, examining, observing, testing, and modeling mammalian brain activity with potentiations certainly gives a window into what is and is not possible.

Additionally, I suspect your own position, based primarily on faith and belief has some foundation in the We only use 10% of our Brain MYTH..

Fact of the matter is, we use all our brain all the time.

Of course, if you really believe we only use a small fraction of our brains, you are more than welcome to perform a demonstration of this wonderful fantasy by excising the 90% of your brain you don't use.
You could do this with a power drill at home. I'm sure the new cerebral air conditioning and ventilation that results will make hot summers all the more bearable. (Disclaimer: I don't actually recommend any such action by anyone as such action would likely result in permanent damage and/or death)

One can, of course, perform such experiments on animals, though I can sum it up and spoil any suspense you may have by telling you that if you start cutting even tiny sections out of the brains of any animal, it typically doesn't bode well for the animal.
Once again; We use all our brains all the time.

I suspect, however, you lack the conviction and/or facility to demonstrate and/or supply any verifiable testable data that supports your position.

Back to you.

edit on 24-11-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

I think I have just fallen in love

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

The mind is obviously not physical.

What do you mean the mind is not physical? There is a TON of evidence to show that it is... Just take your brain out and see what happens to your mind... Even take a good crack on the head... People have been known to COMPLETELY change personality after a bad accident... Look at people with Alzheimers, when the brain gets old and degrades so does your MIND, funny that don't you think?

This is what you non believers, who are really just everyday people with an opinion, dont understand..

You are separating yourself from everyone else and kinda putting yourself on a pedestal when in fact YOU are no different! Just an everyday person with an opinion...

the human being, reality isnt just based on PHYSICAL matter. There is spiritual matter, existence, which can be perceived with the mind.

You NEED proof to make these statements... So do you have any or not? Do you know that people can take acid and see all kinds of things? Even without drugs people can see strange things but it doesn't make it real! Ever heard the term "the mind can play tricks on you"? That is because of the way the brain processes information...

Your mind is like a funnel when used to its potential; the opening in the narrow tunnel is the mind connection to the human consciousness; but as the funnel (mind) widens, it enters deep within the mind. This is what I believe the true "GOD" is.

Pretty "out there" opinions you have... Care to back any of them up?

We are too busy looking outside of ourselves for answers, living everyday like the last, depending on science to evolve us because they've had a "kick start" in past century.

Very few people truly live everyday like the last... If people did then I think the world would be even crazier than it is... No-one would bother to work for a start!

If you do not practise meditation or any type of mind exercises.. then your mind capabiliy and potential is shut down or "asleep" as we spiritual call it. You wont understand or experience because you dont want to go inside of yourself.

Oh I see, you are a "spiritual"... So basically what you are saying is you have created some fantasy in your mind/brain and then berate the rest of us "everyday people" for not going along with it too?

This is WHY you dont believe.

Ahhhhh, so you didn't really want to ASK us at all... You wanted to TELL us!

This is just too ridiculous, I'm out...

Strange post...your telling me we know the mind and its physical?

- THOUGHTS are not physical
- EMOTIONS are not physical

When has science shown us everything the mind can do? The mind does not have limits that we know of. IT doesnt even hav borders. Its this mind we shape when we perceive and THINK, as we venture through reality or "Life".

Thoughts and Emotions have phsyical manifestations like chemical reactions in the body. But they do not come from a physical source. These drugs you talk about, which you know nothing about.. are a tool to help you go within and perceive other realities.
What is termed "drugs" in society is termed "bad" unless your doctor hands you it of course You are one of those people who perceive drugs are bad? Have you ever taken drugs or studied the mind?

We DONT understand the Mind. What is the mind? What is it that shapes our perception of reality? Where are my thoughts coming from? A brain and body is nothing without the consciousness (Life force) that occupies it.
No matter how young or old, big or small, healthy or not.. the body is; if it is hurt bad enough the consciousness seperates from it (OOBE, NDE, Astral, Spiritual nature.. etc). Without the consciousness the body is nothing but decay in the dirt.

We as Hu-mans need to understand that reality is more then the 5 sensory version we can only perceive with our bodies. Our minds can alter and change levels of reality which we become conscious of. As people like myself have experienced this... its the point of why people try and "wake" others up. We experience thigns that society doesnt understand; it is spiritual or psyychic in nature, whatever you want to call it.

But those skeptics and non believers have not experienced their psychic capabilities, the potential of their minds.. so they cannot perceive what its like. People need to realize when you die, your body is over, but YOU are not over. You carry on.

We can perceive so much when we develop and evolve in other ways that arent JUST physical (mental, spiritual, psychic, intutive..).

Being spiritual is nothing fantasy, again what is fantasy to you? What is REAL and not real? Alter perception of the mind is fantasy because you cannot touch is with your body

Originally posted by Mianeye
A lot of story's with no video, a lot of videos with no story, same thing every time.
The proof dosn't exist, the evidence leads nowhere.

Do you believe in Santa?

edit on 24-11-2012 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

Believe it or not, not everyone owns a camera, I'm guessing from your post that you do own a camera so try to imagine this.
You see something crossing the sky right in front of your eyes, you don't know what it is but it's gone in less than a minute. Would you stand there and watch it or would you run around looking for your camera and miss it?

reply to post by LoveisanArt


What's always bothered me is that you will have people who believe in god (with ZERO proof but few writings) but they find ET's and UFO's to be impossible to believe in......

Let me clarify something for you and other fanatics.

1. There is no such thing as a "debunker"....only skeptics that analyze evidence presented with rational questions and scrutiny. In the absence of verifiable proof, they come to the conclusion that the claims are either an obvious hoax, or that there is simply not enough evidence to conclude that ITZ ALIENZ OMG.

2. Unidentified does not mean alien. It means, unidentified.

I believe in the possibility of alien life.....I have yet to see any convincing evidence that alien life has visited earth. Being rational = being sane.