Inmate: James Holmes told me he was 'programmed' to kill

thanx for the article....

there are many things to talk about....

but this made my eyes open

(Knight says he has no record of any letter sent by Holmes to Unruh, intercepted or otherwise.)

that friggin name again ...knight

anyway
i personally rekon he was programmed...

reply to post by Witness2008


You're thinking John Hinckley Jr.

I scare myself with all my knowledge about murderers and assassins.

reply to post by Pinke

Early on Derren told a lot of lies about his techniques. Why would this have changed? His lottery episode? Camera trick with a switcher. His psychological super powers? Just card tricks. Russian Roulette? Wasn't for real. Why would any of it be now?

I don't see how Derren lied about any of those things... he revealed the trick behind those things to show not everything needs to be accomplished with hypnotism. You wouldn't know the truth behind a lot of those things unless he wanted you to.

However the times he does use hypnotism are certainly real... he often goes to extreme lengths to prove it too. No one can deny that hypnotism works, it's been proven countless times over and over again. The real question is, can it be used to program a killer.

I agree with you actually... the assassin episode really isn't enough to conclusively say it's possible, because in reality the subject would have had a subconscious understanding that the gun wasn't real. He knows he wouldn't really be instructed to kill a person.

But having seen hypnotism in action many times, and the things it can make people do against their will... I am 100% certain it can be used to make a person kill against their will. Well it's certainly possible with weak minded people imo.

There are many people who can overcome hypnotic programming, but there are probably more people who can't overcome hypnotic programming, especially when it's reinforced over a long period of time by a very good hypnotist.

Hypnotism can make a person forget periods of time, it can make them see, taste, hear and feel things which are not there... all these things have been proven time and time again. The inmate says Holmes felt like he was playing a game.

I would be willing to bet a million dollars that a person can be programmed to kill, and that the Government knows exactly how to do it. In fact the therapist didn't necessary need to have Government help, she may have been acting alone.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Exactly. People in the know say it is remarkably easy to program an individual to perform when triggered. The timing of this incident with the UN vote to ban arms is just too coincidental. However, the real question people should be asking is why were there 2 gas masks?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


it's exactly what I was thinking about. When Derren Brown reads that message in the mall and everybody lift their hands at the same time. Imagine the same approach could be used to program someone to kill. By slipping the instructions into a text at school or into some linguistic study that looks harmless.

And lets not forget about this little bit of information:
Here it is: Dark Knight shooting suspect James Holmes claiming amnesia, keeps asking 'Why am I here'

Back when we were looking into this case on ATS I had a theory relating to hypnotism:

It would also explain why he simply waited for the police to arrive. That right there is a huge red flag. 99.99% of criminals will attempt to flee the scene of the crime as to avoid being arrested and sent to prison.

It seems completely irrational, even for a mass murderer, to simply hand him self over. If we are to believe he was possibly hypnotised in some way, it might also help to explain why he would tell them about the explosives.

There are two possibilities I can see. The first, is that he was "programmed" to hand him self over without a fight and inform them about the explosives (for what ever reason). The second may be that he snapped out of it and decided the best thing to do was wait for the police and tell them about the explosives.

If he snapped out it earlier than was intended, it might also explain why he was wearing full body armor. It's possible he was programmed to have a shoot out with the LEO's but he came back to reality sooner than was expected.

he was probably programmed by the opening theme tune

it was kinda intense

can i just say i havnt seen this batman yet.... i find that deep..i was too shook to go cinema lol

He was gifted... He was on the verge of making a huge discovery with Dr. Melvin Morse. I was aware of James Holmes about year prior to the shootings. They should have used his brain for better purposes rather then make him a killing machine.



Please see Kerry Cassidy's post about this topic. Both Men, working on a major discovery suddenly go MAD within just days of each other.....People who knew them say this this was not the men they knew.


The you tube video has a warning so Watch with care: www.youtube.com...



Kerry's post on this :

projectcamelotportal.com...

Originally posted by samcrow
And the plot thickens....is Unruh a crazy, attention seeking inmate or telling the truth? Is the 'evil' therapist none other than Lynne Fenton? Is this all BS?

James Holmes: Inmate's strange tale of "confession" and suicide efforts

Article

edit on 20-11-2012 by samcrow because: (no reason given)

I believe this to be the truth. Homes was working with the goverment on mind control and he was programed by our goverment. Remember MK_Ultra and the goverment. The CIA and '___'.

"When he got out to his car, he wasn't programmed no more," Unruh says. "It sounded kind of crazy. He was trying to run it by me, basically."

-Steven Unruh

Hello ATS,

Did you realize that S. Unruh is not the only inmate that has had an encounter with James Holmes and wanted to talk to 'the press' about it?

"Marie" happened to be incarcerated at the same time as Holmes just like Unruh...

Former inmate: Holmes flaunts sanity, gets special treatment in jail

It's hard to know what to make out of that video. The media were willing to send out a van based on the two facts that they knew for sure, "They have both men and women at the facility" and "We know for sure she was kept there at the same time as holmes.

So what? I chalk it up to the local news (Fox31 Denver) grabbing at anything at all that they can to add to the 'story'.

And so now what about Unruh? The DA wouldn't 'work' with him so he decided to take it to the press. I am trying to imagine how that might have gone. Did he dig in to his stipend of phone calls, or something, and phone up Westword Denver?

And I am not surprised at all that someone of Unruh's age and obvious guile could choose just the right words to say to kick up a # storm, "They're going to try to discredit my story" and "Programmed Killer".

You guys realize that all that stuff is mainstream? This is not 1991. Everybody knows what a Manchurian Candidate is. I think they had a Manchurian Candidate Slurpee at 7-11. And the Westword jumped on the chance at the story, why?: because Unruh was there. Nevermind that his drug addled brain was there with him.

Anyhow, Unruh is a total opportunist, his story could easily be cobbled together just from watching commercials on cable and news breaks. And the idea of these two shouting to one another, apparently unheard by others, by dint of some weird act of acoustics created by sliding metal cell doors, "The children, Steven! Write to the chilllldren for me!" Silliness people, c'mon.

Thanks, Steven Unruh, good story bro.

And as far programmed killers go?

The way I see it, any programming that took place took place at the hands of James Holmes and no one else.

If you don't get me on that then maybe you should revisit Tyler Durden's speech in Fight Club. Many people tell themselves that they are all sorts of things and then go about fulfilling that program. For instance, many have read books like those by Carlos Castenada and then went out and ingested lots of drugs and experimented at being a 'shaman' or whatever. It's an artifact of culture and has much kinship, I think, with behaviors like extreme fandom.

Yeah, we are capable of that all on our own. Garbage in. Garbage out.

And what is more bizarre anyway, really? That there is some faction of the government that does this to people? or that people are capable of this all on their own? I choose the latter. It's not 'Them' it's Us. We do this all on our own. We create the stories that get us in to it, just like we create the stories that we use to try and explain it to ourselves.

?

I finally get to play the other side. This story is so beyond bogus its not even funny. The inmate clearly had an alternative motive to try and reduce his own sentence. Not buying this one.

Originally posted by samcrow
And the plot thickens....is Unruh a crazy, attention seeking inmate or telling the truth? Is the 'evil' therapist none other than Lynne Fenton? Is this all BS?

James Holmes: Inmate's strange tale of "confession" and suicide efforts

Article

edit on 20-11-2012 by samcrow because: (no reason given)

why

am

i not surprised ...

I've been waiting for something like this ever since that night. There are those (like myself) who suspect that there are other forces at work behind such horrible incidences, that demonic possession or even an MK-ULTRA-type program (or both) might be responsible for such mass killings.

The thing is, as some do suspect this there was bound to be a report of this kind, and someone claiming that this is the reason. True or not, I thank you for sharing it. I will be following this case as it proceeds. Since Unruh is offering “interesting” details about Holmes, it makes sense that he should at least be listened to.

One part of the story that I always found interesting was how Holmes just gave up and then warned the police about his booby-trapped apartment. He set out to create a scene, armed and padded for a deadly showdown with the police (to go out in a ‘blaze of glory’, as they say.) Instead, after he coldly shoots down all those innocent people in the audience, he walks out, gives himself in and then warns them about his apartment. Some might say that he just came to his senses, but talk about a turnaround. How does someone gun down innocent men and women one moment (with cold-blooded precision) and then just gives into compassion the next? That’s always stuck with me.

reply to post by Xoanon


www.bibliotecapleyades.net...




Yes it does happen to people and many other things......Mind control is far from mere positive thinking in most cases one can not think for themself. It came from Germany with the over 200 nazi scientist we brought here after the war. Read the greenbaum speech and thats just the beginning. There are thousands of people who are mind controlled and have no idea.... just in the USA alone.

reply to post by samcrow


£10 says this claim will make its way into mr holmes defence strategy then the trail reaches court

It's entirely uncommon that people taking mood stabilizers freak out and go on a killing rampage.

this website disagrees with that quote

Originally posted by Merinda
Programmed to kill? And he realized this only after the spree? There wasnt any point of time where he had a clear mind before that? Is there anybody he confided in before the killings?

Brainwashing takes a lot of time. How would that have played out? And to what end? Do not say confiscating guns pl0x nobody in America is seriously looking at ending the very profitable private arms market.

To what end? More control. They used a passport-less zombie moron with bomb powder next to his balls as a reason for putting body scanners in all the airports.. of course they could use this to heighten security at movie theaters or any public place for that matter.

Not to mention as an effort to continue portraying ordinary-looking white Americans as the new boogeyman (aka 'domestic terrorist'). Enough events like this and the majority of Americans will be begging for the government to keep them safe from every average joe with a strange look in his eye.

The weirdest part about dude's story is that it echoes almost verbatim some of the theories that had been developed about this incident. Not sure if it transpired on ATS or between my boss and I's discussions, but I had become convinced that Holmes probably thought he was in some sort of game or act. Given the particular neuro-science stuff he was doing, combined with the fact that this exact "scene" had happened in a batman comic (Joker shooting up a theater of people).. it seemed to make sense that he might have been part of a "drill gone live" or something to that effect.

How common is internet access in prisons? Maybe inmate guy had heard some of these theories? I don't know.. it's just really weird that he would say that's what Holmes said to him. The stuff about being programmed to kill and feeling like he was part of a video game.

reply to post by Alexjustme

It came from Germany with the over 200 Nazi scientist we brought here after the war.

Read the Greenbaum speech...

I have. All the way through.

Let me offer you this...

...Unruh's story is drawn from the same narrative stew as the historical and web-browsing suggestions you have offered to me.

The whole thing can be seen as something that a text corpus could be created from. If we could gather the whole thing together, concerning MKUltra and the narrative around American Govt. sponsored mind-control projects funded by DARPA, etc, it would be very interesting to subject it to a very powerful version of Stremor's tldr/sloth. Of course the gold would lie in the analysis.

Either way, the whole thing is running in a closed loop, and you and I are both trapped in it together, all of us, in fact, right now.

The only real tool we have at hand to deal with the problem directly is the power we all have to suspend our disbelief.

?


Addendum: Just to make myself clear (or less, I can never be sure) I wanted to share the kinds of questions that I am seeking answers to.

This whole concept of mind-controlled killers. You know it originates with Hassan-i Sabbah, The Old Man of The Mountain (Alamut) and founder of the Ismaili assasins or hashashin. Yep, he created the first so-called Manchurian Candidates using hashish and fake trips to paradise. But I digress...

The narrative concerning all of that exists as a system that very much involves us, and our brains and all that. And if you have a system then Ashby's Law will be found to be in effect which states...

If a system is to be stable the number of states of its control mechanism must be greater than or equal to the number of states in the system being controlled.

So.

What I want to know is...

Is it true? Is it some organized evil at work, and more must be added to the story in order to attempt to control the ever-changing varietal edge, so to speak.

Or are we doing it (my favorite) and we continue to contribute to the whole pile because we just like to play add-on and don't want the story to die because it possibly allows us to go another day without facing ourselves, and the world we contribute to creating.

Either way, to be clear, to suspend one's disbelief means one has chosen to believe.

Thanks for reading.

I have no doubts that the official ending of MKUltra was just that, an official ending, as the program likely continued with higher classification, and from then on was not subject to FOIA requests, etc. Basically it was compartmentalized, as so many things that deal with unethical behavior on the government's part are nowadays. However, I believe that there is no surefire way to "program" a person's mind to kill if they are against killing. Also, I do not think there is a surefire way to get someone to kill without remembering crucial details that could lead to the perpetrators who programmed the subject.

But notice I said "surefire" way, because I would be willing to bet that sometimes a combination of sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, sensory overload, etc. will actually succeed in putting certain thoughts deep into a person's subconscious mind. So I don't believe there is a process that would work on everyone, and it takes a certain type of person to pull it off, and even then there are no guarantees. But I will concede that it is possible that a real Manchurian candidate can be created from almost any person, just not that likely in my opinion, given what we currently know about the human mind. But there is still much more that we do not know than we do know about our brains, so if the gov has gone further in their secret research, perhaps they have found a way to succeed.

The only case where I believe the assassin was actually programmed by a government entity to kill someone is Sirhan Sirhan, the man who supposedly shot and killed RFK. There was just so much evidence that pointed to another shooter, likely the newly hired security guard for the hotel that was standing behind RFK. I think that Sirhan was the fall guy, and that is why he could not know anything. See, the problem is not finding an assassin to commit murders for you if you are the government, because there are agents within the government itself who can do that...But they are valuable assets. Therefore you do not want them to take the fall, especially if it could possibly lead back to those who initiated the assassination.

So that is why I think Sirhan was the fall guy, thus he was manipulated both mentally and physically to forget whatever it was that he was supposed to do. He likely was in a "trance" the whole time anyway, as that is probably the only way the government can get these manchurian candidates to succeed without any knowledge, as they are not lucid at the time. I am not positive, but it seems possible, and maybe even likely. Sirhan was waiting in a spot that Kennedy was not even supposed to go through, but Kennedy was led there at the spur of the moment, instead of exiting the way that was planned. That is just one reason this whole thing stinks of a conspiracy. Sirhan has not let on, after all these years, that he remembers anything or knew what he was doing. I think he is being truthful in what he has said for years and years. He doesn't remember.

So anyway, could this case be similar? Are psychologically unstable people chosen for this kind of operation specifically because their minds are different and able to be programmed? Or because the public is less likely to believe that a psychologically unstable person is telling the truth. So the fact that this guy was in therapy is no surprise. But you have to ask yourself, even knowing what we know...Is it possible that since this person was "unstable" that he did in fact make this up about being programmed or whatever? It is a catch 22, or a double-edged sword if you will. And I think that is just one of the perfect reasons for an organization to utilize psychologically disturbed people as assassins.

But, I am not yet convinced that this shooter was programmed in any way, because as I said, the possibility is there that he is just saying this to attempt to avoid severe punishment, or because he is mentally ill to some degree. I doubt we will ever find out. I was thinking about all of the government secrets that will never get out, and I figured that the only way we may possibly ever know the answers to many pertinent questions like these will be if the government collapses and the buildings holding the records are raided. If there even are records. And if there were, they may be destroyed in a situation like this. So ya, I doubt we will ever know.