Why the hatred for the Israelis?

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I'm genuinely staggered that anyone can 'pick a side' in this.

While I agree with your other points, I had to respond to this statement.

I can pick a side in this because, although both parties have their own interests, the people caught in the middle of it don't have a choice.

And right now, the people of Gaza are facing massive destruction and death at the hands of a much more powerful enemy invader.

The fact of the matter is that Israel has been stealing land, destroying homes, blockading another people and generally doing everything they can to take. That's irrefutable fact. Even the pro-Israel posters on here cannot deny that Israel has enforced a blockade and continuously steals land. No sane person can ignore that - but they gloss over these facts and pretend they just don't exist, because it proves them to be the aggressors.

That is how I can pick a side. The people of Gaza have been continuously victimized, and although they might support Hamas, that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. They have a right to fight back just as Israel claims it has a right to defend its people.

I generally pick the underdog in any situation, when might is used against defenceless people I will invariably support the victims. In this case, the victims are the innocent people in Gaza.

if i'm not mistaken, didn't israel give back the gaza strip to the palestinians, when it was under israeli control from the previous wars?

reply to post by michael1983l


Why should the Palestinians compromise? Why should Iran or Egyptians compromise?

If someone invaded my homeland and started attacking the people i'd damned well fight back too.

reply to post by flatbush71


That's the thing it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists. It has never worked. They either want it all or keep killing, no compromise no meeting in the middle. I live in Northern Ireland and whoever says that the peace process worked is dilussional. It worked in the sense that there is no longer discrimination on a level that it used to be. But the violence committed by the IRA is still happening. Not as often but it still happens more than they expected. Terrorists are fanatics who do not want to look at another point of view they have their beliefs engraved in their minds and nothing can stop them. If they die in the process well that just makes them martyrs amongst their peers. Also, how can people say that you shouldn't fight back blah blah blah. If your country was being attacked would you want your government to stay and watch while you all get killed or would you prefer it to protect you and fight back? (btw I know you didn't mention this I just wante dto address both issues in one post.)

OP is pathetic.. simply put

I am going over to his home tomorrow and taking it over, My uncles and cousins will supply me with guns and power to intimidate him and his family, I will take over his whole house and only give him one room to sleep in, I will restrict his access to the kitchen, toilet and limit his water usage, and I will not allow him to leave the house at any time. I will break into his room without warning should I suspect him of anything and I will tell my cousins to hold him down while I beat on him. He can go ahead and complain to the Police department but he should know that the sheriff is my daddy, and my daddy loves me and will stand by me even if i'm wrong...

I can do this to him because my grand, grand, grand father owned the house around 300 years ago

In other words I am Israel and the OP is Palestine

Originally posted by muse7
What would you do if the U.N kicked you out of your house and then gave it to other people?

Those people didn't have a home and they have to live somewhere right?

Maybe, the next time you buy yourself a new home ... the people that live there, should start to riot, stone your house, attack you and tell you to leave.

And when that happens, the rest of us should side with the uneducated and stupid, mob.

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

Michael, I think your outline of the Jews "forced to settle on land" is far too historically simplistic......the situation was far more complex than that, and dates back to the first World War and the British Mandate for Palestine (Google it)
You also state "wipe Israel off the map"..........again a much repeated quote in the Western media.......however it has been incorrectly interpreted, but used adinfinitum by the Israeli regime.
Whist it is no secret that Iran & Hamas don't like the Israeli regime, they aren't physically advocating droping a nuclear bomb on Israel........but that is what guys like Netanyahu want you to believe.
They want the Israeli regime in it's present form to dissapear....... just as the Soviet Union disappeared.

Who is right & who is wrong is much more complex than you make out........it's not a good vs evil, Black & White situation............and that is why this conflict has been going on for so long......there is no simply solution........if there was it would be solved long ago........and we wouldn't be discussing the issue here today.

Originally posted by Kram09
The people carrying him may have just been dragging him away from the scene of an attack for safety reasons and did not have time to properly ascertain whether he was seriously injured or not.

I won't discount the possibility that this man was faking it but surely the BBC reporter on the scene clearly would have witnessed this no?

No disrespect but I think a lot of people get too hung up on the minutia........and don't concentrate on the bigger picture.
Could this video be faked.........may be may be not........but that doesn't change the fact that people are dying on both sides.
Take for example In 2006 an Israeli bomb destroyed a U.N. observer post on the border in southern Lebanon, killing three UN observers.......... the UN didn't "fake" the deaths.
Innocent people are dying........that is the IMPORTANT issue........NOT whether or not one individual or another may have faked their injuries.

Originally posted by Logical one
In 2006 an Israeli bomb destroyed a U.N. observer post on the border in southern Lebanon, killing three UN observers..........

Except "In an email dated 18 July received by CTV and published 24 July, the deceased Canadian peacekeeper Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, stated: “What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.”[28]

According to retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie, interviewed on CBC radio on 26 July, Hess-von Kruedener's phrase ‘due to tactical necessity’ was “veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them"

reply to post by Cayla19


Well I agree with you on some parts. The Israel vs. Gaza is issue is too complex to pick one side. Like I've said before there are no innocent parties here or victims. Think the only people who are victims are basically the civilians caught in the middle; although, you have to argue that it is also the responsibility of those citizens to stop Hamas from using public buildings to fire rockets from.

Think Hamas has it agenda and will achieve it by any means. Whether that is by swaying public opinion of Israel by playing the victim card or pretending it is interested in peace talks. It really isn't.

Originally posted by hellobruce

According to retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie, interviewed on CBC radio on 26 July, Hess-von Kruedener's phrase ‘due to tactical necessity’ was “veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them"

It could well have been the case that Hezbollah fighters were near that position, but equally it could be a "standard" excuse used to "explain" either mistakes or genuine indifference to the UN observers.
The fact is the UN post was bombed despite assurances from the IDF that they knew the UN personnel were at the post, and that they would not be bombed.
They STILL get bombed..........Hezbollah fighters being there or not.

A poster who on here earlier stated that he was a soldier in the IDF ,and that If they know that innocent civilians are in areas where they are about to bomb, then the IDF will abort the bombing of that target.
However, this doesn't seem to be the policy regarding the UN observing station.......the IDF knew that the UN observers were there, and even assured them that they knew their position and wouldn't bomb them.......and yet they STILL bombed them.
So even IF Hezbollah fighters were there..........the IDF were wrong to bomb the area where they knew the UN observers were.

NO, op, I do not feel sorry for the Israelite's.. and here's why. There are 2 groups of people that believe that horrible chunk of land is theirs... this isn't just this past century.. oh hell no people this has gone on for well over thousands of years.. all over that little piece of earth that god promised this people and those people blah blah ad nuseum.
Nor do I feel sorry the the Palestinians... they've done they're fair share too.. look only twenty years ago when they had the most control over that atrocious piece of desert and they were bombing the heck out of Isreaeli held territories , that's when we big brother stepped in and gave Israel every flipping bomb known to man.. and now the tides have changed and we all feel sorry for the Palestinians again.. guess what will happen now...

esp since not only this country is divided over which underdog to side with, our government will have to back isreal, we already made that choice years and years ago... and now Egypt and Russia are getting all involved too.. it's only a matter of time before Armageddon... the time is so near.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Come on man. The Jews themselves are the target. That they even have a government or a homeland.

They are flanked on both sides but hired gun nut jobs that are driven by nationalistic and religious haters. Other nations around the area have said they would wipe the whole nation off the map. Other nations around them allow nut jobs to train and have safe haven within thier bourders as well as fund and supply military hardware to same. They were of late the victims off mass murder which is being called a myth now by anti Jew haters.

why wouldn't they be saying that, that they want to wipe Israel off the map, they consider all Muslims brothers especially in the middle east and they consider the Jews or the Israeli government to be more precise, behind the majority of the bloodshed and hardships that has befallen certain country's in the past.
Now the west has been lead to believe the view of the picture in pretty much the same way except in opposite terms for a long time now, but I can pretty much tell you that the world is in a conundrum, a moral dilemma if you will, we know what is happening is wrong but the majority still feel threatened and afraid to break free from the past 1000 years of indoctrination and cling to the lies and scare mongering.

I don't hate Jews, just Khazarians...

Hatred for Israel? No

Hatred for Gaza? No

....

Hatred for people sticking their nose in? Yes.

Both sides are to blame, Gaza are firing / Israel are firing. The thing that is pissing me off is every middle eastern country threatening Israel... these people are making the situation worse because they are poking at an animal that is being backed into a corner. They have every right to defend themselves..... it's their county.

Syria, Iran, Egypt etc.... back off and let them sort it.

Reports are so imbalanced, goes into detail about Gaza being defenseless but Hamas is rolling in handouts and military weapons. Women and children are dying because they are hiding amongst innocent people in deeply populated areas! But.... whatever... Israel has bunkers and a strong army... they can't be say.... WIPED OF THE MAP..... ??!!! Oh the irony.

Pathetic, the whole stupid situation.... all sides.... everyone, so infuriating.

Embarrassed. This will end in a world war if we aren't careful.

reply to post by tanser


now now.. it all depends on who you ask about who's country it is... lol and i agree it will end in a big finale. There can only be one victor.

Originally posted by flatbush71
Ehud Barak offered everything they wanted and they still refused. They only want war, all the land and the death of all Jews. How can you negotiate with people that have that kind of mind set ?

Completely and utterly untrue. That's one of the most mis-repeated statements of nonsense there is. Ehud Barak tabled an offer, but it was a far, far cry from "everything they wanted". That's a fabrication of the facts and your experience loses credibility when you post a mistruth, arguably knowingly.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by flatbush71
Ehud Barak offered everything they wanted and they still refused. They only want war, all the land and the death of all Jews. How can you negotiate with people that have that kind of mind set ?

Completely and utterly untrue. That's one of the most mis-repeated statements of nonsense there is. Ehud Barak tabled an offer, but it was a far, far cry from "everything they wanted". That's a fabrication of the facts and your experience loses credibility when you post a mistruth, arguably knowingly.

And what are the facts?

Your sources trusted and 100% accurate?

How are these sources accurate.... did you see the documents? Emails? Hear the phone calls?

Credibility and truth are the two things that will be bent and twisted in such situations... both sides aren't the whitest of whites...

Originally posted by tanser

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by flatbush71
Ehud Barak offered everything they wanted and they still refused. They only want war, all the land and the death of all Jews. How can you negotiate with people that have that kind of mind set ?

Completely and utterly untrue. That's one of the most mis-repeated statements of nonsense there is. Ehud Barak tabled an offer, but it was a far, far cry from "everything they wanted". That's a fabrication of the facts and your experience loses credibility when you post a mistruth, arguably knowingly.

And what are the facts?

Your sources trusted and 100% accurate?

How are these sources accurate.... did you see the documents? Emails? Hear the phone calls?

Credibility and truth are the two things that will be bent and twisted in such situations... both sides aren't the whitest of whites...

The truth is that you repeated a media fabrication.

There was a process of negotiations, counter proposals and such, and ultimately it was Barak who put a stop to it. Arafat had counter proposals.

None of the participants say what you've said. It's a complete and utter media myth. The only people who say that Barak offered everything they wanted and they wouldn't negotiate is the media.

How many times does this have to be said..................most people don't hate Israel or its people, most people hate the Israel Government and its policies and actions. There is a huge difference between hating the Government of a country, then there is to hating that countries people as a whole. I've even heard and seen many Israeli's saying that they too hate their Government for what its doing, so does that make them Israeli "haters" as well depite being Israeli themsleves ?

I feel sorry for the kids, on both sides. The adults are going to perpetuate this thing. I don't know how the people on either side can look into their children's eyes and NOT try to settle things peacefully. Every day, we build the world our children will have to live in. We as a WORLD cannot afford this kind of behavior anymore. From anyone. There should be a blockade on ALL the sides involved until they sit down at a table and try to work through this until a peaceful solution is reached. The mistake the international community makes is that they take ANY side, we should hold their conduct accountable as a WHOLE and pressure them to stop this madness. How long has this been going on now? Its just not acceptable.