Why the hatred for the Israelis?

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Got nothing but love for Israel. But I have nothing but hate for what I'm seeing them doing right now. There are smarter ways to deal with this Hamas.

oh i agree...the israeli government should just tell their people to dodge the incoming rockets, because they do not want the hamas to get mad by retaliating.

reply to post by michael1983l


Like some others have already pointed out, you put forward the common notion that criticism of the actions of the Israeli state somehow equates to hatred of Israelis.

There is a similar perception amongst many Americans on this site, whereby they react as if criticism of their government is an individual attack on them. A quite disturbing mentality in my opinion.

I don't hate Israelis. Israeli's shouldn't have to run and cower in fear from rocket attacks, never knowing if the next one will be them or a loved one. The state of Israel exists and any suggestion that it might somehow go away is not realistic.

However...Israel isn't stupid. They blow up someone in their car and then act mortified and offended when rocket attacks start raining down on their heads (yes yes I know rocket attacks aren't something new and have been happening for a long time). The Israelis surely knew exactly the kind of reaction that they would get.

They are now using these rocket attacks to go to town (so to speak) and using military force far out of proportion to what is necessary - launching hammer blows against Gaza and killing anyone and everyone who happens to be in the vicinity. The IDF claims they don't want to harm civilians and I can understand that this is difficult in the situation, but to me personally I feel they are just paying lip service to the idea of not harming innocents. It reminds me somewhat of the U.S policy of drone strikes.

Israel and America now launch extra-judicial assassinations of whomever they like, whenever they like. This has now become the norm but we have phrases such as "targeted killing" as if that makes it okay. Targeted killing makes it sound oh so clean cut and surgical. It can hardly be so, when a so called targeted killing wipes out large numbers of bystanders and innocents or demolishes several buildings.

The vast majority of Israelis just want to live in peace and get on with their lives and strangely enough so do many Palestinians. It's always a minority which spark off the cycle of bloodshed and violence - all for little gain. What exactly did Operation: Cast Lead achieve back in 2008, apart from a load of dead? Yet here we go again... The Palestinians as a whole are always punished. Israel (like America in Afghanistan with the drone strikes) is just perpetuating an endless cycle of violence.

People are demanding a halt to the Hamas rocket fire and Israeli strikes saying that the only way to solve the conflict is through negotiation, but I feel personally that Israel doesn't want peace. They have continued to build settlements in the face of international condemanation. The Palestinians have tried to gain recognition at the United Nations by gaining formal observer status but the United States reacted by threatening to cut financial aid to the Palestinians and was decried both by Israel and the United States as the wrong way to do things. Why? If violent rocket attacks are wrong and attempts in the right direction to gain recognition through international bodies is wrong - what exactly is the right way?

Hate for Israeli's? I don't hate them. I pity them for having to live under the dome of indecency that is their government. Their own government puts the people in the position that they are in. And the way the system is set up the power mongers and war mongers that are their government that don't give a damn about the people will ALWAYS be in power there. Sad state for the people of Israel.

People have sympathy for the underdog. If the conquest of the west in America or the conflict between aboriginees and Australians would have played out on live TV I am sure there would have been similar reactions. So to answer your question, because its in the spotlight.

Also the situation of the Palestinians is more precarious than that of groups in similar situations, like the Kurds. While they dont get to have their own state, they have the choice to play nice in Turkey and be good turkish citizens with full rights.

Israel opposes the Palestinian territories becoming a state, but it also opposes Palestinians becoming Israelis, so they are stuck in limbo and people kinda understand the Palestinians went their frustrations.

reply to post by intrepid


And by extension Israelis own government is directed from the outside. Contrary to popular opinion it isnt Israel who runs America. The same powers whom funded the Nazis and today run the western hemisphere, direct the policies in Israel, which was to pull the british out and let the jews deal with it all. Israel is basically a glorified US base in a region of strategic importance.

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?

No one is ever FORCED to kill innocent people.
It is a choice and you have decided your end justifies your means.

edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

And the alternative for the IDF is to sit back, do nothing, and absorb thousands of missiles fired on Israeli civilians because Hamas militants use disgraceful, cowardly, inhumane tactics.

edit on 17-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

I think you need to change your name. You call yourself "Humanity4ever" but you display a complete lack of Humanity towards millions of people.

Posters here have tried offering you evidence of the onslaught the Israeli regime is raining down on a densely populated area, and you ignore it. You defend them even though it is clear for millions of people around the world to see that this is disproportionate force, a massive military power slamming a tiny strip of land desperately trying to defend themselves with nothing more than fireworks and stones.

David and Goliath.

People like you cannot see logic and reason, you adamantly defend the wrong side even when all the evidence is gathered for you to see. Even though it's a matter of published FACT that Israel is stealing land and occupying another nation, you think the Palestinian people should just sit back and take it, until there is nothing left.

Israel is undoubtedly the aggressor here. They have created a militant force in their treatment of their neighbours, and I have ZERO sympathy for the regime. I feel for the people in Israel targeted by those rockets, but at the same time, what do they expect to happen? If they continuously poke at the hornets nest, and continually victimize an entire nation of people, those people will eventually fight back with everything they have.

You want to know what the real danger is? When the people of Gaza have lost all hope for the future, all bets are off. If that happens, Israel needs to really watch its back, because they will have hundreds of thousands of people flooding out of Gaza and into their country to destroy as much of it as possible. A few thousand IDF "kids with guns" will not be able to stop them.

The Israeli regime are retards who think they have the might to stop this by dropping bombs, but all they are doing is escalating it, and with every bomb they drop on Gaza another hundred militants are born.

Thankfully, it looks like other Arab nations are prepared to defend Gaza, which is something all nations should be doing. I don't know how they plan to do that, and it does scare me, but something has to be done to stop Israel from killing hundreds or thousands of innocent people.

Personally, I would like to see the nations surrounding Israel force a ceasefire on both. Then I would like to see a coalition manning the crossings, and planes patrolling the skies. Enforce a ceasefire on them, and tell both that if either fires anything the source will be targeted with a precision strike. If Israel fires a rocket, the source will be bombed, and if Hamas fires anything, that location will be targeted too.

It might seem like a far-fetched idea, but Hamas is backed into a corner and will not stop (they have been provoked repeatedly into defending their people) and Israel likes to use Gaza as a political points scoring tool in the run up to elections - they also want as much land as they can grab.

If neither side can stop, they must both be forced to stop, forced to the table and forced to come to an agreement.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
You're asking this question on a conspiracy forum. The truth of it is, as such, you're potentially addressing people who think that Jews lie behind most conspiracies and are therefore the enemy. At the same you're also addressing others who think that Muslims have a manchurian candidate of some description in the White House who is just waiting to 'go off' and enslave the American kuffar.

Israel and the Middle-East is a divisive issue at the best of times and one that's going to be informed at some level by what people think of other conspiracies and political/religious opinions.

The only real 'right' answer to this is that innocents on both sides are political pawns of various factions and are being killed in the process. Everyone is a loser here, including us on the outside looking in, apart from those who gain as they always do through increased political influence and wealth.

I'm genuinely staggered that anyone can 'pick a side' in this.

Best post in thread.

Think it has a lot to do with propaganda coming from Hamas and so forth.

The media has always been used as tool to gain support and turn their opponent into the villain.

However, in the case of Israel vs. Gaza I think there are no innocent parties. Think both sides are looking for trouble, for which ever reason, and in so end up blowing the hell out of each other.

Hamas doesn't have the firepower of the Israelis so it's resorted to playing the victims in front of the media and of course the rest of the world eats it up. Om nom nom nom!!

Not that I support either side. In fact I wish they would just wipe each other off the face of the planet. It'll be a good start to world peace.

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?

No one is ever FORCED to kill innocent people.
It is a choice and you have decided your end justifies your means.

edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

And the alternative for the IDF is to sit back, do nothing, and absorb thousands of missiles fired on Israeli civilians because Hamas militants use disgraceful, cowardly, inhumane tactics.

edit on 17-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

3 Israelis dead vs 40 Palestinians including infants....sorry

Hard to muster up sympathy for the Israelis at this point.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I'm genuinely staggered that anyone can 'pick a side' in this.

While I agree with your other points, I had to respond to this statement.

I can pick a side in this because, although both parties have their own interests, the people caught in the middle of it don't have a choice.

And right now, the people of Gaza are facing massive destruction and death at the hands of a much more powerful enemy invader.

The fact of the matter is that Israel has been stealing land, destroying homes, blockading another people and generally doing everything they can to take. That's irrefutable fact. Even the pro-Israel posters on here cannot deny that Israel has enforced a blockade and continuously steals land. No sane person can ignore that - but they gloss over these facts and pretend they just don't exist, because it proves them to be the aggressors.

That is how I can pick a side. The people of Gaza have been continuously victimized, and although they might support Hamas, that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. They have a right to fight back just as Israel claims it has a right to defend its people.

I generally pick the underdog in any situation, when might is used against defenceless people I will invariably support the victims. In this case, the victims are the innocent people in Gaza.

reply to post by michael1983l


I don't hate Israelis, but I do hate it when they come on internet forums crying 'poor jew, poor jew everyone hates us' when they're murdering women and kids to steal their land.

Buy your own land you cheap ass, murdering, #er.

There is a good article here by Glenn Greenwald of the Guardian.

Stop pretending the US is an uninvolved helpless party in the Israeli assault on Gaza

The US needs to be taken to account for it's blind support of Israel. Israel knows it can get away with it's aggression because the United States will support it unwaveringly without question.

The U.S media will dutifully toe the party line and say that Israel is only defending itself.

I have sympathy for the mass of innocent Israelis caught up in the fear of the rocket attacks.

But it's hard for my sympathy not to wane a little when the IDF goes far above and beyond in their retaliation by obviously striking a wishlist of targets and killing many civilians in the process.

Israel needs a leader which won't respond with the same knee-jerk resort to air strikes and invasions. They need to show that they can't be baited and provoked. That they can be stronger in more ways that just militarily.

This is what the media does not want you to see.

anti israel bias

reply to post by Kram09

The US needs to be taken to account for it's blind support of Israel

I'd like to add that although the United States is the main culprit in this regard the European Union (particularly Germany for obvious reasons) and the United Kingdom also share responsibility.

William Hague (the UK Foreign Minister) wasted no time in laying the blame squarly at the feet of Hamas, and the German Foreign Minister duly followed suit.

Originally posted by muse7
What would you do if the U.N kicked you out of your house and then gave it to other people?

Those people didn't have a home and they have to live somewhere right?

That sounds like forced redistsribution to me. You are a socialist, why aren't you for that?

reply to post by meggiddo2012




I have posted the video you linked to.

The video is interesting.

There is no context to the video. There is no audio and we do not know whether it has been edited.

The man who is apparently injured may have been blown or knocked to the floor by an explosion...possibly.

He may have just fallen due to shock at seeing or witnessing an attack....seems unlikely to me as he is clearly walking about afterwards and doesn't seem too concerned. But again do we know whether that footage is before or after the scene of him being carried away?

The people carrying him may have just been dragging him away from the scene of an attack for safety reasons and did not have time to properly ascertain whether he was seriously injured or not.

I won't discount the possibility that this man was faking it but surely the BBC reporter on the scene clearly would have witnessed this no?

reply to post by Kram09


What about the video further down in this link that shows the person falling off a casket or something and then getting up and laying back down on it?

Take Hamas, Hezbolah and any other factions out of the equation,, and you still have a nation stealing land and building settlements on it.

Originally posted by meggiddo2012
reply to post by Kram09

 

What about the video further down in this link that shows the person falling off a casket or something and then getting up and laying back down on it?

Are you trying to imply no-one is being hurt in Gaza ?

Whay if these were just training exercises......every country has them.

reply to post by ken10


I think the media is bias and is only focusing on making Israel look bad. They are demonizing Israel. Both are at fault. You don't justify killing people by killing people. Whatever. the blind lead the blind it seems. Shalom.