A quick question for communists before bed...

So my question is simple... If communism is such a grand idea why haven't communists got together to run businesses? Have they? Like no-one owns the place of business and everybody is paid the same and there is no hierarchy etc... I would be interested in hearing examples if there are any...

Surely this could be done today quite easily no? Most of OWS are of the communist persuasion, so there are no shortage of people with the same ideology. In fact I know many people that do not profess to be communist but would agree that everyone should get paid the same etc...

Also if there is no hierarchy how would you divvy up the wages? How would you hire and fire? Would you use democracy/mob rule for everything? What if a bunch of people took a disliking to a particular colleague? They could just vote him/her out?

It sounds like an absolute nightmare!

reply to post by mee30


The Chinese seem to be doing quite well economically though.
Oh I bet there isn't many real communists on ATS tbh.
Also the OWS seem to be socialists big difference.

Sorry, but you have no idea how real, structured communism works.



Real communism doesn't have any need for money.


The work is done either because it needs to be done, or because one has a passion for it.

You won't find any true communist business in this capitalist filth-pit of a society.



It would be like trying to sell gold to a man who only loves dirt.



The love for a certain career is at the heart of true communism.
No longer would a person become a doctor because their parents pushed them into it, or because it pays well.

No, it would only attract people who have a true passion for it, and this would weed out the weak-skilled.



I won't go on about this, because ATS is famous for bashing communists.
It's happened to me before.




Just enjoy your propaganda, left over from the cold-war.

I have no energy for trying to convert the capitalist Borg.


Capitalism is a world-wide disease, and it's killing the innate human love for life.

reply to post by Unrealised


And what he said
Great post dude.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by mee30

 

The Chinese seem to be doing quite well economically though.
Oh I bet there isn't many real communists on ATS tbh.
Also the OWS seem to be socialists big difference.

edit on 16-11-2012 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

China would be better described as State Capitalism. Don't forget, in China these days it is "glorious to get rich".

reply to post by boymonkey74


When you say "the chinese", who exactly are you referring to? The average citizen or the government?

How many chinese companies run the way I describe? Do all chinese employees get paid the same etc? There is no hierarchy?

How much poverty is there in china?

From a quick search the chinese are 1.66 trillion us dollars in debt... Doesn't exactly sound that rosey any way...

What is a "real communist"?

reply to post by Unrealised

Sorry, but you have no idea how real, structured communism works.

Oh so where did you gain such insights? Interesting...

Real communism doesn't have any need for money.

So who decided what real communism is? Money drives the markets, without money you could not tell who wanted what and when... Who would decide how much food was needed etc... Would you be talking about centralized communism? Where the government makes all the decisions?

The work is done either because it needs to be done, or because one has a passion for it.

Oh so no organization then? People will just do what needs to be done? Interesting... What if too many people want to be pool lifeguards?

You won't find any true communist business in this capitalist filth-pit of a society.

Hmmm so voluntary mutually beneficial transactions = filth pit to you? Can you explain why you couldn't design some sort of business that runs without money and operate today? I mean you could have a communist network that all does different things and pools the resources, no?

It would be like trying to sell gold to a man who only loves dirt.

Hmmmm okay....

The love for a certain career is at the heart of true communism. No longer would a person become a doctor because their parents pushed them into it, or because it pays well.

How would communism stop parents influencing their children? Even if you took money away there would be other incentives to manipulate children, for instance... "don't be a policeman, you could get shot!" etc...

You think no-one loves their career?

No, it would only attract people who have a true passion for it, and this would weed out the weak-skilled.

Oh, and what would happen with the "weak skilled"?

I won't go on about this, because ATS is famous for bashing communists. It's happened to me before.

Well it seems you do quite a bit of capitalism bashing so... My problem with communism is that it can only work tyrannically. You see capitalism can and would accommodate communism, as I said you could just band together and agree to all be paid the same or perhaps not even be paid, you just pool resources. It is completely possible if you can convince enough people to go for it. Can you imagine if it worked and all you communists were living the life and all the capitalists were down the pan? People would move to communism quick, no? In fact that is what I advocate, a freemarket of philosophy... I do believe capitalism would "win" however, but I would love to see the challenge...

Just enjoy your propaganda, left over from the cold-war.

Eh? What part was propaganda? Cold war? lol I was born in 81... I go by what communists tell me and by what I read in things such as carl marx works...

I have no energy for trying to convert the capitalist Borg.

Oh so you wanted to come in and throw some names around? I see, I see... Good show...

Capitalism is a world-wide disease, and it's killing the innate human love for life.

You know we do not have true capitalism right now don't you? We have croney capitalism! Capitalism would tell the banks to fail as an example...

reply to post by mee30


what ever happend to the barter system? bring that back.

f the rest

reply to post by DocHolidaze


Well it would be something to try for sure, but my understanding is we need money because it tells businesses what needs to go where and when and how much... For instance it costs a lot of money to make a ferrari so they cost a lot of money to buy. Not many people are willing or able to pay the asking price so they don't make that many...

Barter system was good when things were simple but I'm not so sure it could work today. There are things like time bank which is pretty interesting but not so good for purchasing things...

reply to post by mee30

Communism goes against Human Nature. One a Commune there is always a few people who are lazy and do not do their fair share. This very Human of Behaviors is why there are not many Communes as who want's to bust their ass growing food while a few do little or nothing and get an EQUAL SHARE!?

Why would people strive to become a Doctor if another person who is just sorting out the Doctors Rx's in the office would get the same pay?

People need the ability to become something that they have worked for. I have worked Very Hard my whole life and now I am wealthy. Many nights I have spent working and to think that while I was putting in 100 Hour Work Weeks that someone who barely spends 20 Hours a Week working would get the same pay and benefits that I have so diligently worked for...would PISS ME OFF!

This is why the Hippie Communes only lasted until someone was able to grow a few 10 foot pot Plants. After this quick harvest...NOTHING EVER GOT DONE! LOL! DUDE! Can you go buy me a Dove Bar and a Bag of Chips? We can weed the Garden Later! Split Infinity

Originally posted by mee30 Uneducated, capitalist prisoner rhetoric.

See?


Like I said, you can't convert the Borg.


It's up to you to truly understand what money symbolizes, and why the people of today spend their lives trying to get it.



Until then, communism will be inaccessible to you.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by mee30

 

Communism goes against Human Nature. One a Commune there is always a few people who are lazy and do not do their fair share. This very Human of Behaviors is why there are not many Communes as who want's to bust their ass growing food while a few do little or nothing and get an EQUAL SHARE!?

Why would people strive to become a Doctor if another person who is just sorting out the Doctors Rx's in the office would get the same pay?

People need the ability to become something that they have worked for. I have worked Very Hard my whole life and now I am wealthy. Many nights I have spent working and to think that while I was putting in 100 Hour Work Weeks that someone who barely spends 20 Hours a Week working would get the same pay and benefits that I have so diligently worked for...would PISS ME OFF!

This is why the Hippie Communes only lasted until someone was able to grow a few 10 foot pot Plants. After this quick harvest...NOTHING EVER GOT DONE! LOL! DUDE! Can you go buy me a Dove Bar and a Bag of Chips? We can weed the Garden Later! Split Infinity

There is no money in a communistic plan.


Can't you grasp this?

Grasp it. Grasp it. Grasp it.



As for people who are greedy, and want ferraris and mansions, these people are sick. They have a disgusting view of the world, and are not fit to live a true life based on the love of their fellow man and the drive for sentient growth.


Communism would heal the entire world, but alas, the veil is over too many eyes.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by mee30

 

Why would people strive to become a Doctor if another person who is just sorting out the Doctors Rx's in the office would get the same pay?

Um, I don't know. Maybe to save people's lives?

Originally posted by Unrealised


Until then, communism will be inaccessible to you.

Thank god for that, otherwise I'd have to move to a different country that has some sense. Communism is as anti-freedom as it gets.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Communism goes against Human Nature. One a Commune there is always a few people who are lazy and do not do their fair share. This very Human of Behaviors is why there are not many Communes as who want's to bust their ass growing food while a few do little or nothing and get an EQUAL SHARE!?

Yes and why there are no communist businesses, lol... Imagine a highly skilled experienced technician getting paid the same as the new start cleaner... Not that I have anything against cleaners. I would still love for somebody to try it...

Why would people strive to become a Doctor if another person who is just sorting out the Doctors Rx's in the office would get the same pay?

Well I do think that there would be people that cared for others but I do see your point and it is most certainly a valid one, who would be knee deep in blood and guts while the porters stroll around for the same pay? Or equal share...

People need the ability to become something that they have worked for. I have worked Very Hard my whole life and now I am wealthy. Many nights I have spent working and to think that while I was putting in 100 Hour Work Weeks that someone who barely spends 20 Hours a Week working would get the same pay and benefits that I have so diligently worked for...would PISS ME OFF!

Totally understandable, I don't advocate the system we're in today though, way too many barriers and levies to stop most people starting their own business. I want complete De-regulation.

This is why the Hippie Communes only lasted until someone was able to grow a few 10 foot pot Plants. After this quick harvest...NOTHING EVER GOT DONE! LOL! DUDE! Can you go buy me a Dove Bar and a Bag of Chips? We can weed the Garden Later! Split Infinity

LOL I think you may have a little bias there towards somebodies personal preference. Hasn't Amsterdam proved that cannabis does not make a zombie state? I know plenty that smoke but still get their money. One of them works as security on film sets. He regularly pulls in a grand a week and does 16 hour shifts etc. He just doesn't smoke while working. Much like a drinker won't drink at work... I think pot = lazy is a bit of a cliche...

Tell me, if a brewer can make alcohol that kills millions of people every year, why can't someone grow plants that kill no-one?

reply to post by Unrealised

See? Like I said, you can't convert the Borg. It's up to you to truly understand what money symbolizes, and why the people of today spend their lives trying to get it. Until then, communism will be inaccessible to you.

THIS is your reply? Okay pal...

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by Unrealised


Until then, communism will be inaccessible to you.

Thank god for that, otherwise I'd have to move to a different country that has some sense. Communism is as anti-freedom as it gets.

edit on 11/16/2012 by bl4ke360 because: (no reason given)

Why is it anti-freedom?


Give us all your sick answer.

reply to post by bl4ke360

Thank god for that, otherwise I'd have to move to a different country that has some sense. Communism is as anti-freedom as it gets.

Pretty hateful too it seems. Strange for a people that are apparently about love... Also they tend to ignore questions and debate all together. They are right, you are wrong... grasp it, grasp it, grasp it

reply to post by Unrealised

Why is it anti-freedom? Give us all your sick answer.

This is what makes me laugh... You have told everyone why it is against freedom! You want to control what people can and cant buy! You even say they don't deserve life! So I guess you will kill anyone that you deem "greedy"... How can you not see that it is against freedom? In fact it is complete tyranny...

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by bl4ke360

 

Thank god for that, otherwise I'd have to move to a different country that has some sense. Communism is as anti-freedom as it gets.

Pretty hateful too it seems. Strange for a people that are apparently about love... Also they tend to ignore questions and debate all together. They are right, you are wrong... grasp it, grasp it, grasp it

Do you love any ailments you get? Do you love your viruses? When you get a cold, do you sing to it?


I do not love capitalists, because you defend your society, one that traps you with propaganda that is (somehow) too hard for you to see through.


I've stated what makes communism works, and I also stated that I wouldn't really go on about it, especially to the Borg.



So yes, grasp it, if you can.