Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News

I haven't read through all 10 pages here, but I think it comes down to the fact that the United States only exists because we chose to secede from England. Not only is the idea of secession built into the very foundation of this country, but the states themselves created the Federal Government. We the people are our Government.

reply to post by incoserv


What cracks me up is the small percentage of people that are signing the petitions. Looks like majority will rule and if they don't like it, they can find a new country to live in. Oh wait they allready threatened they will take their business and move to mexico where labor is cheaper.

reply to post by Golf66


I've taken a bit of time to organize my thoughts on this and reply, sorry about the delay in getting back. It's because you took real time to reply that I didn't snap reply myself....

It's a real mess we're in now though, isn't it? People in numbers that no one can call a mere fluke or passing fad are taking actions that...at least a %....must understand could cost them dearly on a personal level. (I wonder how random the next IRS audits will be, for instance?) That tells me and should tell the world that there is a very large and very deeply felt sea of anger and disillusionment in our nation today. That part is a serious thing being accomplished here. I took some time considering that in particular and no one can take that much from the secessionists if that is all they manage to do by this.

The mere word secession is one I think we've all seen a ...shocking.... number of people didn't even know the actual meaning of in any real sense. (Must make notes about the state of Constitutional education in schools today...) I think now that if any legacy comes of what I still expect to be a short lived thing here, it will be that the underlying NOTION of secession was something never even considered as possible by a good % of the nation. Now? They know it's not only real but IS possible if the right conditions come to pass. Again, I can't fault it as a basis for doing it.

Personally, I've made choices and I've given commitments to take a different path to changing the nation as we see it around us. They do not and cannot include something of this nature. This is speaking for just myself and my own decisions in life. I can't see a clear way to join this where no positive and concrete change is possible in the direct result of the action. Too much DOES need done and so short a time to get it all done in....to be distracted and possibly taken out of the game entirely by retribution action by Uncle on a thing like this. Still... I've come to have respect for those taking this stand. Perhaps what they do will make what others are currently doing all the easier. I can hope.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wrabbit, I had to comment on your reply, of course these political things are always going to be biased.

I doubt very seriously if any states are going to secede from a few signing a petition. Texas has about 100,000 signatures but the state is home to 25 million people. Thats a very small amount. In addition what I was reading was saying that a state can't just withdraw from the union, there has to actually be war, as in civil war. I doubt very seriously if 100,000 people are going to be able to invoke a civil war that the other 24.9 million aren't going to be able to win.

Majority rules and 24.9 million people are being silent right now, there is a reason for this.

The 100,000 that signed the texas petition are mostly the wealthy and business owners, and those that manage businesses. They are basically saying they want to seperate from the union and keep thier slaves how ever they see fit.

Anytime you work for an employer, full time that doesn't afford you enough compensation to afford the following, you are basically getting ripped of, and for lack of a better term you are a SLAVE.
Rent. Food. Health insurance. Car, Car insurance. Gas. Clothing. Toiletries.
Most employers at this point pay enough for rent and food and toiletries, and screw the rest.

Employers have taken advantage of a protected system that has defended the practice of enslaving innocent people since the dawn of time. As an example, when minimum wage would be raised to give the slaves some relief, almost instantly, all businesses would jack up their prices to compensate for the change, basically causing the slave to not realize any relief.
I know this to be a fact as I have lived through enough depressions and seen enough wage increases that started out for me back when minimum wage was around $3.00 an hour. It's the same story every time, there would be a wage increase and it would be followed by a quck change of everything else around us so that almost no change is realized.

Businesses refuse to allow their profit margin be hampered with all at the expense of enslaving people.

reply to post by itsthetooth

I'm afraid we'll never agree on this point at all. Some do see "employers" in that very general terminology as being rich and just out to stick it to the little guy. I mean, it's as though people who run a store or cafe have some mega bucks tucked away and are hoarding money. Now, sure, this IS true in some cases at the top levels, There are Billionaires in this world so many times over that money literally becomes a meaningless concept in every way. That is the 1% I personally think of.

I'll tell you where I come from on this though. When I simply drove a truck for years I thought the same way about the companies. After all, they had fancy buildings, tons of people and always money to send me when I needed something fixed or to pay a toll or other expense. Companies I worked for like Covenant Transport and Cannon Express dealt in the 10's of millions of dollars as routine numbers. Who can't look at that and figure someone, somewhere is making big money??

Then...I decided to BE one of those 'rich people'. I bought myself a truck and I did it right too... I got a humble Kenworth T-2000 for a whopping $30,000 note. Note a bad lease and 0 balloon. It was a TRUE buyout of the truck not an endless rental like most companies. That's where I went from little $800 a week paychecks to handling $200,000+ a year in and out for my truck........and had a net taxable income under $20,000. I did well, actually. many many guys I knew lost everything they had, including their homes, chasing that dream and trying to make it work. At least I didn't end negative. I grew a whole new respect for "business people". I had every chance to make it work and I did enough to keep from sinking. Most sink like a stone...and just a few...make it REALLY well. Like my last employer who I met when he had 5 trucks and debt out his ears. 5 years later when I left for med reasons he had 40 trucks and nearly 100 drivers on the payroll. He had money too....but he risked EVERYTHING to get it.

So you see, that's my basis in example for why I cannot and simply won't make villains of employers as some faceless group. Same with business owners. I was one myself and saw what B.S. it was to hear other truckers claim the owners had so much money or how Owner/Operator drivers were snobs with all they made. See, I was one...and I sure wasn't rich. Neither are the vast majority who are accused of it.

reply to post by itsthetooth

I doubt very seriously if any states are going to secede from a few signing a petition. Texas has about 100,000 signatures but the state is home to 25 million people. Thats a very small amount

This is just a way of demanding a redress from a corrupt and runaway govt. OWS wanted to shut down Wall Street, but did it? Now they are behaving like Wall Street in that they have decided to buy up private debt and make it public.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The only problem is that truckers don't usually make minimum wage.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

This is just a way of demanding a redress from a corrupt and runaway govt. OWS wanted to shut down Wall Street, but did it? Now they are behaving like Wall Street in that they have decided to buy up private debt and make it public.

And see, I don't find that we have a corrupt government.

What I see is that government is trying to put a dent in slavery and oppression but taking care of the last person we always took care of, the person. I see nothing but love from that. Republicans have dominated the cycle for so long that people have fallen to the waste side. I think when a person has to have $2000 a month to survive and make it to work everything healthy, and their job only pays them $1600 woking full time, they are getting shafted.

It's a real simple picture to understand, the employer pays as little as they have to, to the employee, allowing the employer to keep more money and gain mover wealth, of course this is all at the expense of the employee.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by incoserv

 

What cracks me up is the small percentage of people that are signing the petitions. Looks like majority will rule and if they don't like it, they can find a new country to live in. Oh wait they allready threatened they will take their business and move to mexico where labor is cheaper.

Well The french businesses and rich people are leaving france after they passed those high taxation bills. They are actually starting to do as they have threatened. Now what would happen if the ones in the US did the same?

reply to post by yuppa

Well The french businesses and rich people are leaving france after they passed those high taxation bills. They are actually starting to do as they have threatened. Now what would happen if the ones in the US did the same?

Well we would be missing some business, and possibly some rich people, but honeslty, where are they going to go, mexico?

Back when I was a kid I grew up right on the border, and I remember how the economy is down there. Today you can take a fair amount of money and retire out there, the problem is the corruptiion out there will kill you. The drug cartel right now is killing people left and right, and chopping off thier hands and heads so the bodies can't be identified, and the government is actually scared of these people.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Wrabbit, I had to comment on your reply, of course these political things are always going to be biased.

I doubt very seriously if any states are going to secede from a few signing a petition. Texas has about 100,000 signatures but the state is home to 25 million people. Thats a very small amount. In addition what I was reading was saying that a state can't just withdraw from the union, there has to actually be war, as in civil war. I doubt very seriously if 100,000 people are going to be able to invoke a civil war that the other 24.9 million aren't going to be able to win.

Majority rules and 24.9 million people are being silent right now, there is a reason for this.

The 100,000 that signed the texas petition are mostly the wealthy and business owners, and those that manage businesses. They are basically saying they want to seperate from the union and keep thier slaves how ever they see fit.

Anytime you work for an employer, full time that doesn't afford you enough compensation to afford the following, you are basically getting ripped of, and for lack of a better term you are a SLAVE.
Rent. Food. Health insurance. Car, Car insurance. Gas. Clothing. Toiletries.
Most employers at this point pay enough for rent and food and toiletries, and screw the rest.

Employers have taken advantage of a protected system that has defended the practice of enslaving innocent people since the dawn of time. As an example, when minimum wage would be raised to give the slaves some relief, almost instantly, all businesses would jack up their prices to compensate for the change, basically causing the slave to not realize any relief.
I know this to be a fact as I have lived through enough depressions and seen enough wage increases that started out for me back when minimum wage was around $3.00 an hour. It's the same story every time, there would be a wage increase and it would be followed by a quck change of everything else around us so that almost no change is realized.

Businesses refuse to allow their profit margin be hampered with all at the expense of enslaving people.

As it stands now they are being silent. If Texas was to actually have a plan, present it and then have a real vote, who knows? Right..
And how many Texans know about this as of now also. You never know.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

I doubt very seriously if any states are going to secede from a few signing a petition. Texas has about 100,000 signatures but the state is home to 25 million people. Thats a very small amount

This is just a way of demanding a redress from a corrupt and runaway govt. OWS wanted to shut down Wall Street, but did it? Now they are behaving like Wall Street in that they have decided to buy up private debt and make it public.

I believe that if OWS did not happen and just started now, things may have turned out different. Ever wonder if maybe they were just about a year too early?

reply to post by incoserv


Wouldn't it be easier to Impeach than to do all this, disolve the congress and senate, and actually get people who aren't motivated by money to try and better the nation?? I ask because the constitution is set up that if the common people are not happy with the government they have the right to do just that, or did a president sign that right away to??

reply to post by itsthetooth


Oh, I couldn't complain about what I made when I was a company driver and I'll say the 'expenses' side of the truck which came outside that meager take home pay made life comfortable enough. Not making minimum wage as a trucker IS true....but it always kinda grated me to hear people say that. I jumped a couple trainees I had over the years over that very issue as well. The only reason it's not minimum wage is because trucking is a line of work that you become not simply do. 5-14 days out with a few days home or what I did for a few years of my time and many do the full time..live on the truck with a storage unit for an address. I'll say the freedom that way is great...if one never considers what's given up and lost anyway.

So, when you figure the pay over 24 hours a day, yeah it's crappy pay. If someone figures all the sitting at the docks in, it's crappy pay (but you're not exactly home if not in the dock getting loaded or whatever...I just played on a computer or watched DVD's. unpaid time? down time, really) However, if you figure pay per mile to time the wheels are rolling? I made between $17 and $35 an hour at different points of my career.

...and after the IRS got done with my tail as an Owner Operator? Those years were less. taxes as a business owner sucks...sucks..SUCKS... there is no other way to put it and no way to explain it without living it. What you think you make by your hard work, when you own it, goes right out to Uncle in 50 different ways and then some silly idiot says you didn't build that.

The point is, I don't know many business owners who aren't as 100% fully married to their business as I was to my truck. Those are the breaks and no pity parties needed.....but the people who do that and make it work also earn whatever they make and the benefits that brings. I sure would have felt I'd earned my few million or whatever if I'd been able to make the jump to small fleet owner. Just my two cents.... Business owners aren't the enemy and most pay a price employees can't really know in health, family and everything else to do it.

Originally posted by thepolish1

Wouldn't it be easier to Impeach than to do all this, disolve the congress and senate, and actually get people who aren't motivated by money to try and better the nation??

So you dont like the people that were elected, so you just want to get rid of them and put in people that YOU want....

I ask because the constitution is set up that if the common people are not happy with the government they have the right to do just that,

Care to show us exactly where the constitution states that? Or stated that....

reply to post by hellobruce

I'm sorry, I thought that common knowledge, it was an insurance policy, for lack of better words, that if the government got too big, we could do just that, the founding fathers had the right idea, but greed is a powerful thing, and if you did not pay attention in your history or government class in high school, that is not my problem. My government teacher was actually a senator of the state, he let us in on alot of things, Better yet, just read the constitution.
and by the way, I have never voted in my life, nor will I, BUT, I am still entitled to my opinion, take it or leave it, don't bother me one bit.

reply to post by thepolish1

I'm sorry, I thought that common knowledge, it was an insurance policy, for lack of better words, that if the government got too big, we could do just that, the founding fathers had the right idea, but greed is a powerful thing, and if you did not pay attention in your history or government class in high school, that is not my problem. My government teacher was actually a senator of the state, he let us in on alot of things, Better yet, just read the constitution.
and by the way, I have never voted in my life, nor will I, BUT, I am still entitled to my opinion, take it or leave it, don't bother me one bit

I think it would take a serious amount of people to overthrow the government. As it sits right now a few thousand people can pack their bags and find a greedier country to live in.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Writing Washington directly to say you are 100% in support of the crime of Sedition is tantamount to calling the Police Department to say you're a drug dealer who just got robbed. You'll get a response alright....and then spend years wishing you never had.

Wo wo wo secession is not sedition! This country was born of secession its an American tradition! No state would have ever ratified the constitution had they thought they could never leave are you kidding they just fought for the right to secede. There is no authority in the constitution for the federal government to prevent secession. The Civil war did not settle the matter Lincoln simply used violence to enforce his unlawful war.

Ron Paul to congress:

Is it treasonous to want to secede from the United States? Many think the question of secession was settled by our Civil War. On the contrary; the principles of self-governance and voluntary association are at the core of our founding. Clearly Thomas Jefferson believed secession was proper, albeit as a last resort. Writing to William Giles in 1825, he concluded that states:

“we should separate from our companions only when the sole alternatives left, are the dissolution of our Union with them, or submission to a government without limitation of powers.”

www.silverdoctors.com...

Having said all that these petitions will be ignored for they are not the proper method for secession. No permission is needed from the Federal government it is up to the states if they wish to secede. If the states are not free to go then they are not free states!

Originally posted by thepolish1
I thought that common knowledge,........ Better yet, just read the constitution.

You said "I ask because the constitution is set up that if the common people are not happy with the government they have the right to do just that"

I again ask you exactly where that is stated in the constitution?

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by thepolish1
I thought that common knowledge,........ Better yet, just read the constitution.

You said "I ask because the constitution is set up that if the common people are not happy with the government they have the right to do just that"

I again ask you exactly where that is stated in the constitution?

Nothing is stated in the constitution about secession thus showing the federal government has no authority on the matter whatsoever and it is left up to the states and the people via the 9th and 10th amendments. The constitution is a document restricting the federal government to specific enumerated delegations of authority by the people. IOW if its not in there saying they have a specific power to act on it then they can't do it.