What is punishment for taking up sins of the world? Death or Hell??

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Oh man do I have an answer for this and it is found in a popular science fiction movie you might know it.

Good is a point of view - Darth Sidious, "Revenge Of The Sith"

If you know the context this was said in and the character who said it, my point is made, if not, go watch the movies.

I do not allow cinematic context to influence that which is logical. If cinematic spin makes a concept look stupid, that is because they presented it in a stupid manner. If it looks irrational, that is because the represented it in a irrational manner. If you know anything about Hollywood, you know what I'm talking about.

So yes, good is a point of view. Good and evil are entirely subjective. Because of how we're raised, we look at 50,000 shades of gray in black and white. Obviously, certain details and perspectives are lost in the confusion. These are the details and perspectives that help us to understand the true, objective nature of our reality, but we miss them because it complicates things.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yet you confirm my point by saying

So yes, good is a point of view. Good and evil are entirely subjective

Why is that those that are trying to deviate from biblical standard's always use this argument ?

In effect they are saying I know good and evil better than God knows them, or at least can judge these things for myself, I don't need God to tell me.
That's exactly what Satan told Eve.
Genesis 3:5

God knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened. You'll be like God, knowing good and evil

And that basic ideology lives on today, your posts testify to that, but it was the fundamental challenge to God's sovereignty around 60 centuries ago, and it still is today.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Yet you confirm my point by saying

So yes, good is a point of view. Good and evil are entirely subjective

Why is that those that are trying to deviate from biblical standard's always use this argument ?

Probably because they are more objective than people who think with their hearts, the most partial organ of the body. The heart doesn't care what it needs, it cares what it wants.

In effect they are saying I know good and evil better than God knows them, or at least can judge these things for myself, I don't need God to tell me.
That's exactly what Satan told Eve.
Genesis 3:5

God knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened. You'll be like God, knowing good and evil

I find that particular selection interesting. The wording of it catches my eye. "You'll be like God, knowing good and evil."

Allow me to elaborate on my insights concerning this bit of scripture. When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit in the story, they suddenly knew good and evil. But what does it mean to know good and evil? Since two men can look at the same thing and each may feel completely differently about that thing, clearly good and evil cannot be absolute. If you need further proof, sit a Taliban member and an American in the same room together. Surely they would disagree on good and evil, or at the very least, what each one entails.

Therefore, "knowing" good and evil may mean something a bit different. I'm inclined to belief that it was meant to say that Adam and Eve were able to judge something according to how they felt about it. More simply put, they were able to describe it emotionally. They knew how it felt to think something was bad, or how it felt to think something was good. I would support this theory by looking at the number of times they each felt something was evil or good before eating that fruit. And if they DID, then obviously the fruit was not the cause of their dismissal.

So, let's trace that back to "God". If eating the fruit were to make them like "God", that implies "God" has the capability of saying, "I feel badly about this," or "I feel good about that." In essence, his decisions are emotionally founded and therefore unstable, rather than purely rational and therefore solidly grounded. And this can be seen all throughout the Bible. "God" has shown impulsive temper, unfair judgment, and egotistical tendencies that have led to the demise of more than one civilization.

1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4. The math all adds up. With that new perspective on the matter, I'd like to conclude that particular response with this point: sure, man may think he is better than "God", despite being weak and frail. But what if it's the other way around? What if we're the children he never wanted? What if we're a failed experiment and he's fled to some other universe, leaving us to destroy ourselves as he knows we must, because he discovered that has hard as he might try, he cannot create the symbol of perfection he sought as an eternal reminder of his own power?

This is all assuming the Biblical god ever existed, of course. Purely hypothetical.

And that basic ideology lives on today, your posts testify to that, but it was the fundamental challenge to God's sovereignty around 60 centuries ago, and it still is today.

Sometimes, I wonder if our creation was your "God"s challenge to the universe, a challenge of power. That begs a number of assumptions, of course, but it makes much more sense than the stories I hear in church. It would explain so much more.

But that's just a small theory to entertain to the side. After all, applying anthropomorphic features to such a being is folly beyond folly.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Well at least you are thinking about this whole matter, the bottom line is, was Satan lying?

The fruit was a symbol of God's authority and sovereignty, it never contained any magical properties.
As a side point Adam never had the guts to stand up to his wife, and say I won't do it, that's wrong, he was a true romantic, he decided he would rather die forever, than be permanently separated from his first love. Even though God would have destroyed Eve and made a new perfect woman for him.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Well at least you are thinking about this whole matter, the bottom line is, was Satan lying?

I think the question is, who has more to lose by telling the truth? "God" or "Satan"?

The fruit was a symbol of God's authority and sovereignty, it never contained any magical properties.

Which means the whole story was a metaphor of "God"s greed. He was unwilling to share anything person with his children. He even let his nemesis into the garden where they lived. An omniscient and omnipotent father just happens to let a fallen angel into the place his children sleep, knowing exactly what would happen? Sounds like a trap to me.

As a side point Adam never had the guts to stand up to his wife, and say I won't do it, that's wrong, he was a true romantic, he decided he would rather die forever, than be permanently separated from his first love.

I would rather die a hundred times than live a million years. Immortality gets boring. No more challenges, no more aspirations...seriously, what do you DO with that much time?

Even though God would have destroyed Eve and made a new perfect woman for him.

...If "God" thinks that solves anything, he's one sexist piggy mofo.