Apollo 15 panorama - matching the rocks to the hi-res LRO image

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

On Going Project? Are you kidding? 42 years not enough time?

You've all had your chances in the last few pages of this thread to deny ignorance about the original 1971 panoramas of Dune Crater.

Please feel free to supply a quote from 42 (hehe, 42) or so years ago of someone starting a project to digitize apollo archives to post them on the internet. 42 years ago would be plenty of time, but it hasn't been nearly that long. Heck internet connections fast enough to load these pictures in less than a day haven't been all that common until very recently.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by eriktheawful
You mean you are pointedly ignoring the fact that there are no copies of it on the internet yet, and that the photo archive is STILL an ON GOING project.

That again, you are ignoring that the original frames are available.

Typical.

What's typical is that I asked for the original 1971 Dune Crater panoramas S71-47077 or S71-4708. So far I haven't receive a straight answer about it or what ever happened to Jim Irwin's jammed up Hasselblad that was returned to Earth. That's typical!

On Going Project? Are you kidding? 42 years not enough time?

You've all had your chances in the last few pages of this thread to deny ignorance about the original 1971 panoramas of Dune Crater.

Richard Nixon isn't going to be very happy about this.

No, what is typical is you are deflecting, a common tactic from Moon Hoaxers. They bring something up, thinking it's a "Ah Ha!" moment, only get get egg all over their faces because they either didn't properly research it, forgot something, or are just ignorant about it. The the most common course they take at that point is to deflect or ignore.

Have you asked NASA, JPL or Arizona State for a hard copy? Hmmmm? Have you? Answer the question: HAVE YOU?

The internet has NOT been around for 42 years (way to go trying to make this into something it's not.....another typical tactic). Scanning the tens of thousands of actual photos takes time, and considering it was not too long ago that various groups started the heritage project of getting these photos scanned an on line so that they are not lost, I'm sure that you will find even more photos listed that are not available through the internet at this time.

So you've found 2 panoramas that you can't find online (even though the original frames for both ARE available for anyone to access), and you think it proves something, but of course, trolling like you do, you consistently FAIL to say what it proves. It's almost like you think you're in some drama production and feel the need to act dramatic.

So you can't find the original panoramas online (but you can get the individual frames just fine). Big deal. Can you show that you can't not order hard copies of them? Can you show where you or others have been denied ordering copies?

Can you in fact come down off of your drama queen high horse and explain why you think this proves anything (other than they have not been put on line yet)?

Or are you, in typical Moon Hoaxer behavior, going to ignore or deflect, again?

Originally posted by ngchunter
Just because it's not online does not mean it is fraudulent or does not exist. I have a number of photographs in my personal collection from government funded observatories and from NASA that pre-date the internet and are not available online, and I can assure you, they are quite real and not fraudulent. Deny your own ignorance and go do some real research if you want those images.

Since I'm home for thanksgiving I decided to go through my personal collection and select an example. I have in my possession an original print of NASA photo 104-KSC-64C-4647. I challenge you to find this photo anywhere on the internet. The closest I can find is 104-KSC-64C-4705, a completely different photo from the same time period. I have 4647 myself and it is not fraudulent, thus unless you can prove that it already exists online, your entire rationale for demanding an online scan of those stitched panoramas falls apart. I'm going to hold onto 4647 in case you ever decide to make the same flawed argument again. Besides, you're not the first poster I've seen try to make that ridiculous argument.

*Oh, here's another one I have, 104-KSC-64C-1094. I can't find that one anywhere either, and it's really good. Ignition at a launch. Better find it online or your entire rationale is... sayonara.

reply to post by ngchunter

ngchunter: I have in my possession an original print of NASA photo 104-KSC-64C-4647. I challenge you to find this photo anywhere on the internet.

The topic of the thread is Dune Crater, people. It's not A) Apollo 17 panorama or B) the dubious camera auction or C) your glorious launch photos. The pro-Apollo crowd has attempted to drive this thread off-topic no less than 3 TIMES.

eriktheawful: Or are you, in typical Moon Hoaxer behavior, going to ignore or deflect, again?

Another user, wmd, tried to prove your point by posting a link to the USGS but that USGS website did NOT have any images of the Dune Crater panorama! Why then accuse me of deflecting and not him?

Post your facts and let the readers decide.

The OP has originally claimed that he could (according to his thread title) match the rocks in the Dune Crater panorama to the rocks in the LRO image. I pointed out that his chosen "panorama" was cropped from a photoshopped image with duplicate rocks in it! And you all agreed that any panorama is, by default, a photoshop.

And that's when the OP lost his argument.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by ngchunter

 

ngchunter: I have in my possession an original print of NASA photo 104-KSC-64C-4647. I challenge you to find this photo anywhere on the internet.

The topic of the thread is Dune Crater, people. It's not A) Apollo 17 panorama or B) the dubious camera auction or C) your glorious launch photos. The pro-Apollo crowd has attempted to drive this thread off-topic no less than 3 TIMES.

eriktheawful: Or are you, in typical Moon Hoaxer behavior, going to ignore or deflect, again?

Another user, wmd, tried to prove your point by posting a link to the USGS but that USGS website did NOT have any images of the Dune Crater panorama! Why then accuse me of deflecting and not him?

Post your facts and let the readers decide.

The OP has originally claimed that he could (according to his thread title) match the rocks in the Dune Crater panorama to the rocks in the LRO image. I pointed out that his chosen "panorama" was cropped from a photoshopped image with duplicate rocks in it! And you all agreed that any panorama is, by default, a photoshop.

And that's when the OP lost his argument.

So you cannot produce an online copy of either NASA photo. Your entire argument that the panoramas are fraudulent because NASA's version is not online is itself debunked and disproven. Showing your flawed logic is not derailing the thread. Have a nice day, sayonara.

reply to post by ngchunter


That's a classic straw man argument. Are you having trouble staying on topic? Is the secret at Dune Crater too hot to touch?

Are you refusing to answer because your argument has been destroyed or why are ranting on? The whole premise has already been debunked.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Post the panoramas, S-71-47077 and S-71-47080.

Post them as proof that they existed.

Can't do that? Then I'm sorry. Those panoramas are a fraud and they don't exist.

Post the images I mentioned above. Can't do that? Then your argument falls apart. It's not a strawman, you literally made the argument that the fact they haven't been scanned and aren't available online is "proof" that they're fraudulent. And for the record, my NASA photo examples are about 7 years older and still don't exist online.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

The OP has originally claimed that he could (according to his thread title) match the rocks in the Dune Crater panorama to the rocks in the LRO image. I pointed out that his chosen "panorama" was cropped from a photoshopped image with duplicate rocks in it! And you all agreed that any panorama is, by default, a photoshop.

And that's when the OP lost his argument.

Please explain why.

Originally posted by DJW001

Please explain why.

No. First you can explain where is Jim Irwin's Hasselblad 70mm camera today, eh? I am specifically talking about the Hasselblad that was "jammed" on the lunar surface, the exact same Hasselblad that was returned to Earth and examined by NASA photo experts.

I asked this question before. I expected to see somebody post a link to a museum or something but instead you posted a link to a dubious "Apollo" camera auction.

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Post the panoramas, S-71-47077 and S-71-47080.

Post them as proof that they existed.

Can't do that? Then I'm sorry. Those panoramas are a fraud and they don't exist.

Post the images I mentioned above. Can't do that? Then your argument falls apart. It's not a strawman, you literally made the argument that the fact they haven't been scanned and aren't available online is "proof" that they're fraudulent. And for the record, my NASA photo examples are about 7 years older and still don't exist online.

Sorry, but I have remained on topic while you want to talk about your random Apollo ?? launch images. As I said before - your launch images have nothing to do with Jim Irwin's jammed up Hasselblad or his Dune Crater panorama.

I just want you all to know that I won't be driven off-topic in this thread. Seriously. If you won't stay on-the-topic

the topic is Dune Crater, hint, hint

why should I engage you any further in this thread?

Just as a reminder - here is the photoshopped panorama that the OP based his claims.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Post the panoramas, S-71-47077 and S-71-47080.

Post them as proof that they existed.

Can't do that? Then I'm sorry. Those panoramas are a fraud and they don't exist.

Post the images I mentioned above. Can't do that? Then your argument falls apart. It's not a strawman, you literally made the argument that the fact they haven't been scanned and aren't available online is "proof" that they're fraudulent. And for the record, my NASA photo examples are about 7 years older and still don't exist online.

Sorry, but I have remained on topic while you want to talk about your random Apollo ?? launch images. As I said before - your launch images have nothing to do with Jim Irwin's jammed up Hasselblad or his Dune Crater panorama.

Yes, they do. They demonstrate the fallacy in your logic. You should be glad I only gave you two images to chase, I have even more. 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094. Post them or your argument falls apart. You claimed the lack of online scans of NASA's version of the dune crater panorama is proof that the panorama never existed and is a fraud. Either retract that claim or post 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094. Your choice. I have original NASA prints of 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094, they have not been scanned and uploaded to the internet yet they are not fraudulent, thus your logic falls apart.

If you won't stay on-the-topic

the topic is Dune Crater, hint, hint

why should I engage you any further in this thread?

If you won't post 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094, then no one should accept your premise. I for one will not and I will continue to demand you post those images every time you claim the panorama is a fraud.

Peace you guys. Peace. Let's have some more of it and together we can all have a jolly good time to Deny Ignorance, together in Peace!

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

No. First you can explain where is Jim Irwin's Hasselblad 70mm camera today, eh? I am specifically talking about the Hasselblad that was "jammed" on the lunar surface, the exact same Hasselblad that was returned to Earth and examined by NASA photo experts.

The topic is Dune Crater, hint hint.

I asked this question before. I expected to see somebody post a link to a museum or something but instead you posted a link to a dubious "Apollo" camera auction.

Process of elimination. The camera is not on display in a museum. There were only a limited number of Hasselblads modified for use on the lunar surface. There is such a camera available on the grey market, without provenance. I can't prove that it is definitely the camera in question, but if it were, NASA would probably not allow it to be sold with provenance.

Anybody reading this thread who has access to the original 1971 panoramas of Dune Crater, official catalogue S-71-47077 and S-71-47080, please speak up now.

Or forever hold your peace.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
Anybody reading this thread who has access to the original 1971 panoramas of Dune Crater, official catalogue S-71-47077 and S-71-47080, please speak up now.

Or forever hold your peace.

Post 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094 or forever hold your peace.

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
Anybody reading this thread who has access to the original 1971 panoramas of Dune Crater, official catalogue S-71-47077 and S-71-47080, please speak up now.

Or forever hold your peace.

Post 104-KSC-64C-4647 and 104-KSC-64C-1094 or forever hold your peace.

You are using a straw-man argument in conjunction with DJW's favorite technique ..... the Mirror I see that you have also abandoned the OP's original premise, you won't defend it, and you are focussed acutely on your off-topic images that have nothing to do with Dune Crater.

In a real debate you would be sanctioned for going off-topic.

We have to look at reality. Reality says that S-71-47077 and S-71-47080 are reported in this catalogue.


It's easy to find Apollo 15 panoramas on the internet, on usgs.gov, on nasa.gov and www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/.

But the panorama at Dune Crater is different and these panoramas S-71-47077 and S-71-47080 were made in 1971. They are not to be found anywhere on the internet.

Also. Jim Irwin's camera jammed up at Dune Crater. We all know this if we read this thread closely and we also know that the exact same camera Jim Irwin used at Dune Crater was brought back to Earth for examination. Which is a very important fact.

It becomes a more significant fact, by carefully reading this thread, we came to the conclusion that nobody knows where Jim Irwin's camera is today. Nobody can account for it.

Add this up with NASA's ongoing copyright relationship with ASU and the facts start to tell us a story........

The real story....... NASA has something to hide on the moon. NASA is removing the reseau marks from Apollo images
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


That's a very nice wall of text. None of them are the images requested thought. Try again?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

We have to look at reality. Reality says that S-71-47077 and S-71-47080 are reported in this catalogue.

The catalog includes ordering information. Have you bothered to write to them and request the mosaics you want? Why not?

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
It becomes a more significant fact, by carefully reading this thread, we came to the conclusion that nobody knows where Jim Irwin's camera is today. Nobody can account for it.

Wrong. Nobody on this particular fringe conspiracy website knows where it is.

If you claim that nobody knows where it is, you have the burdon of proof to show that you have conducted a reasonable search.

Show us you contacted the historical office at Johnson Space Center.
Show us their response.
Show us you contacted the Smithsonian Institution.
Show us their response.
Show us you contacted the General Accounting Office.
Show us their response.
Show us you contacted Hasselblad.
Show us their response.

That's just a start.

Your claim - Your burden of proof.