To those who said, "are you son of God?" Jesus said, "you say i am."

Originally posted by SimonPeter
Well I can see there is no reason to carry on this conversation because there is no reasoning with you . I have laid out that Mohammad was not an example of a prophet of God but as an Antichrist .The Islamic religion is that of Antichrist because it denies that Christ died for our sins and says he was not the Son of God .
You tried to validate Islam through the bible and can not do it . You lack the ability to logically discuss scripture .
You twist everything to try to prove a point .

i could just change a few words in your post above and they would relay a very similar opinion about you.
And if you think i am trying to validate islam then you should bring your head down from the clouds.
Or maybe you feel that because you are trying to validate christianity.
If you think you'l change my mind then, i'l advice you to save the efforts. I am not a lost lamb waiting to be herded. I choose to be a muslim and keep realising how good choice it is as i read more about my and other religions.
If you reply me hoping to get one more blind sheep. then my friend
I AM A LOST CAUSE!!!

reply to post by SimonPeter

You are calling God incompetent when you say Jesus did not fulfill his will as he was sent to do.

Actually, it is you who is calling God incompetent, when you say God did not save Jesus from the hands of those who wanted him dead.

The Jews wanted Jesus dead.
Christians not only want Jesus dead, but also seek to profit from Jesus execution..... by turning it into a human "sin sacrifice".....and developing a doctrine around it.

That's old news where the one Imam tried to claim that Jesus didn't die and married Mary Magdalene and lived to be 54 years old .He was made out to be a liar by Muslim Imams .

Well that Imam is a liar and was speaking for himself... he does not represent what muslims believe.
Not very different from Christian preachers who make absurd claims.

reply to post by SimonPeter

The Islamic religion is that of Antichrist because it denies that Christ died for our sins and says he was not the Son of God .

Nowhere in the bible does it say that an anti-christ is one who denies Jesus died for our sins.
Instead, it says...

It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

Muslims don't deny Jesus as the Christ.

As for the "son of God" bit, The bible shows that Adam and David are also called sons of God. So what now, do you accept them as messiahs too?

double please delete

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
.
Matthew 10
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall
speak: for it shall be given you in that
same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in
you.

The Spirit was already present as you can see.
.

John 14
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words
you hear are not my own; they belong
to the Father who sent me. 25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit(this is added!), whom the Father will send
in my name, will teach you all things
and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give
to you as the world gives. Do not let
your hearts be troubled and do not be
afraid. 28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If
you loved me, you would be glad that
I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the
prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the
Father and do exactly what my Father
has commanded me.

who is he? And why it would be needed to prove that Jesus pbuh obeyed God exactly? Would people invent new things on his name? Maybe!!
Quran:
(5:116) And imagine when thereafter Allah will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to people: "Take me and my mother for gods beside Allah?" and he will answer: "Glory to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right to. Had I said so, You would surely have known it. You know all what is within my mind whereas I do not know what is within Yours. You, indeed You, know fully all that is beyond the reach of human perception. (5:117) I said to them nothing except what You commanded me, that is: 'Serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' I watched over them as long as I remained among them; and when You did recall me, then You Yourself became the Watcher over them. Indeed, You are Witness over everything.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by logical7

 

I would be happy to explain the Trinity to you. Wisdom exists in the understanding of It. The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. First of all to see it in the right light I must tell you that the Son is the Word of God, God's promise and Jesus' divinity. Secondly the Holy Spirit is not the Archangel Gabriel but the Spirit in all creation. The Father is the Creator, the Son is the Creation, and the Spirit is the reciprocal Love of the other Two for each other. That is the simple thought of it I will give you because there are many more, as all of creation mirrors the Trinity. U2U me if you would like to know more.

I do not remember where the thought I put in my other message was said, but I remember reading it, and all that i read is the new testament.

Peace to you

trinity cant be explained, it can just be justified or rationalised.
And holy spirit is the Archangel as the verses about Mary say that the Holy ghost came upon her. or does that mean the spirit of all creation came upon her? How can be Creator and creation be equal? If son is creation then there must be a time when he wasnt present. So to make a trinity God has to add into Himself! Thats absurd.
Let me show you how trinity is justified..
.
There are 7 that are in heaven, The Father, The mother and The Child, The farmer and The warrior, The Healer, The Spirit that binds them, just like the 7 colours of a rainbow, 7 yet from one white ray of light, so God is one but Septine!
.
if you want to explain me, explain me a hypothetical question, if God can have a son, Jesus pbuh, can the son have a son/daughter ever? And will Trinity expand to accomodate them just like Unity expanded to accomodate the son?

reply to post by logical7


Jesus is God. What gives you life is your God. We are spiritually dead without him. He resurrects our spirits when we believe and our bodies will follow on resurrection day. The targums tell you exactly who the Memra is. Start with Isaiah chapter 1 and read the entire book. Isaiah tells you he is God. Infact Isaiah sees him sitting on his throne in Isaiah 6. Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You know the whole Alpha and Omega thing? Yeah, go read Revelation chapter 1 and it's Jesus saying he is the Alpha and Omega. The Holy Spirit was the first comforter, Jesus is the second comforter, there are 2.

Here's a sample.

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

What about another lie that your Imams tell . You get 69 Virgins if you suicide bomb innocent people in Israel . Some body was not thinking here .If it were true in heaven you don't have an earthly or fleshly body. Your little winky is gone , what then ?

reply to post by SimonPeter

What about another lie that your Imams tell . You get 69 Virgins if you suicide bomb innocent people in Israel . Some body was not thinking here .If it were true in heaven you don't have an earthly or fleshly body. Your little winky is gone , what then ?

the mouth speaks what the heart is full of

You can only repeat the nonsense you've heard from your preachers and others like you. Its really sad.

Your identity as a Christian is nothing more than an accessory or a fashion label, which you flaunt around. The real message of Jesus, however, has sailed over your head.

Jesus, despite being poor in earthly terms, was someone who had this thing called "class". Its something that is unfortunately lacking in many people who identify as "Christian". You can't look or think beyond your 2 dimensional image of Islam, so you use the title "Christian" to take pot shots at Islam and Muslims. That is a sign of spiritual bankruptcy.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

my view is that people who have reached that awareness have found the connection to that highest awareness(God) but are never equal to Him. And there is a God because if not then who guided the 1st human to find that connection and reach that highest level. So God contacts humans by appointing a human among them and these people are the prophets. So its not just the humans who are seeking to go higher but the Creator is guiding us up and making it easier to make us realise that we are one, to abolish that feeling of separateness from each other which is the root of all voilence. That separateness is born at birth and that illusion strengthens the longer we live especially the more sensation seeking we get until one starts seeking the reality(by meditation by blinding all senses) and breaks that illusion. All this is intelligently arranged, so there is a Creator.

You cannot in truth be equal to the whole if you are a part of the whole, but as you experince the whole and knowing the whole you would probably have a problem distinguishing the part that you are from the whole and forget that you are only a part. But you can have all the information and knowledge of everything that is if it is available to you. I do not have all the information and make sure not to because I have enought problem handling the information I do have.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
Well I can see there is no reason to carry on this conversation because there is no reasoning with you . I have laid out that Mohammad was not an example of a prophet of God but as an Antichrist .The Islamic religion is that of Antichrist because it denies that Christ died for our sins and says he was not the Son of God .
You tried to validate Islam through the bible and can not do it . You lack the ability to logically discuss scripture .
You twist everything to try to prove a point .

So because you do not get a free pass then they are anti-christs. From my point of view it is the opposite and shows movement towards gnosis (christ conciousness). Taking responsability for you r actions and fixing what you break. I do not think either you get a free pass but it is up to you to test your theory if you are so sure of it. So what are the hindus, buddhist, sikhs, native americans to you?

Getting stuck in a duality against everybody who do not share your belief only leeds to hate, anger. Love you enemy within reason.

reply to post by logical7


Thought is made manifest by the Word and the Spirit gives Life. I give you this and I give you no more because God is present in Each member of the Trinity. It is at this thought that you become hard hearted but I explained it to you well. The Son is the Word made flesh, therefore Christ is God incarnate. Through the Word we come to know the Thought and they contain the Spirit. peace to you and goodbye

reply to post by LittleByLittle


Sounds like you adhere to the Oprah theology. There is one truth, one absaolute truth . Better find it .

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by logical7

 

Thought is made manifest by the Word and the Spirit gives Life. I give you this and I give you no more because God is present in Each member of the Trinity. It is at this thought that you become hard hearted but I explained it to you well. The Son is the Word made flesh, therefore Christ is God incarnate. Through the Word we come to know the Thought and they contain the Spirit. peace to you and goodbye

this whold creation is a word becoming material/real.
The son is as much as a god as the sun and stars, they all are made by God.
And like i said, you cant explain trinity, you just preached and ran!! Bye.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

Jesus is God. What gives you life is your God. We are spiritually dead without him. He resurrects our spirits when we believe and our bodies will follow on resurrection day. The targums tell you exactly who the Memra is. Start with Isaiah chapter 1 and read the entire book. Isaiah tells you he is God. Infact Isaiah sees him sitting on his throne in Isaiah 6. Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You know the whole Alpha and Omega thing? Yeah, go read Revelation chapter 1 and it's Jesus saying he is the Alpha and Omega. The Holy Spirit was the first comforter, Jesus is the second comforter, there are 2.

Here's a sample.

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

its only God who gives and only He can take away.
According to you, anyone who taught spirituality is god? Thats a pagan idea, very pagan.
Pagans think gods come to the earth to help people,save people.
Isnt it strange to obviously have at least two gods, father and son and yet claim to be monotheistic? By just play of words?
If the son died for 3 days yet the father keep living, doesnt that makes them two separate entities with independent existence?
The idea of pure monotheism now repluses christians as their beloved Jesus pbuh wouldnt fit, the sins come back to each and it gets too much work and yet an uncertainty for salvation.
If one loves Jesus pbuh they will want him saved and alive.
If he is loved only because he died for them, then its not pure love, its selfish gratitude love.
.
By the way, in OT the word god is used very loosely. Any important enough person is showered with adjectives even god, but its not the same as God. and making it capital "G" doesnt just makes it fit. The prophecy talks about a special man thats it.

reply to post by logical7


I did explain It, you just refuse understanding It. The Trinity is simple, and if you do not understand then there is not much I can do for you, as your understanding is not of the True God. Also it is very off topic. The Son is the Word, and in the BEGINNING the Word was with God.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by logical7

 

I did explain It, you just refuse understanding It. The Trinity is simple, and if you do not understand then there is not much I can do for you, as your understanding is not of the True God. Also it is very off topic. The Son is the Word, and in the BEGINNING the Word was with God.

that verse has been shown to be an extrapolation, an addition and removed by bible scholars after studying the most ancient texts, but it was put back on popular demand as people refused to buy the corrected bible. Consumerism rules!!

reply to post by backcase


just look at the initial verses of john, they reek that someone else has written them.
.
And on topic, why Jesus pbuh addressed himself as son of man? Why he always made it clear that he is nothing and his God all powerful? That sounds like a prophet.

reply to post by logical7


Actually it was changed because the first translation said and the Word was God. Every translation of every bible has this phrase. You are wrong and deny anything which goes against your argument. If the phrase has been put into the Bible then God wants it there.

You are full of Pride who want to consider yourselves equals with God, and that is your mistake, that you follow the doctrine of the antichrist and assert your beliefs above others.

Do you think that any of the apostles or disciples were with Christ when He said "you say that I am". No you are wrong and deny the words of God's strongest apostle. You pick and choose verses from the bible but do you not know the verse that says:

" 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation.

you disgust me as you want to mold God into the disgusting form you have made for Him, and you do not let Him mold your heart as should be done.