To those who said, "are you son of God?" Jesus said, "you say i am."

Luke

66 And as soon as it was day, the elders
of the people and
the chief priests and
the scribes came
together, and led
him into their council, saying, 67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And
he said unto them, If
I tell you, ye will not
believe:

That means he is but they wont believe.

68 And if I also ask you, ye will not
answer me, nor let
me go.

they are arrogant enough not to acknowlege it even when they know

69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit
on the right hand of
the power of God.

son of man? Nice! and ya he would have a high station in heaven, all prophets will

70 Then said they all, Art thou then the
Son of God? And he
said unto them, Ye
say that I am.

that means, you say that not i. talk about putting their words in his mouth

71 And they said, What need we any
further witness? for
we ourselves have
heard of his own
mouth.

ultimate example of being blind with arrogance.
.
Jews used that allegedly 'his' claim to crucify him.
Christians used the same to worship him.
So either both are right or both wrong.
He never agreed to that, if he was son of God he could have and made it easier for both jews and christians, knowing that he would not be let go anyway. So the only explanation is Jesus pbuh is truthful. but he dint deny directly cause he knew they wouldnt believe and he knew what is God's plan and will. He is being called back as his people proved their arrogance and rebellion against God.
Discuss.

reply to post by logical7


Hoka hey its a good day to die Archon ,NO archin no archan. SEAGNOOX
its all over ARCHON.

Originally posted by logical7
Luke

66 And as soon as it was day, the elders
of the people and
the chief priests and
the scribes came
together, and led
him into their council, saying, 67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And
he said unto them, If
I tell you, ye will not
believe:

That means he is but they wont believe.

68 And if I also ask you, ye will not
answer me, nor let
me go.

they are arrogant enough not to acknowlege it even when they know

69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit
on the right hand of
the power of God.

son of man? Nice! and ya he would have a high station in heaven, all prophets will

70 Then said they all, Art thou then the
Son of God? And he
said unto them, Ye
say that I am.

that means, you say that not i. talk about putting their words in his mouth

71 And they said, What need we any
further witness? for
we ourselves have
heard of his own
mouth.

ultimate example of being blind with arrogance.
.
Jews used that allegedly 'his' claim to crucify him.
Christians used the same to worship him.
So either both are right or both wrong.
He never agreed to that, if he was son of God he could have and made it easier for both jews and christians, knowing that he would not be let go anyway. So the only explanation is Jesus pbuh is truthful. but he dint deny directly cause he knew they wouldnt believe and he knew what is God's plan and will. He is being called back as his people proved their arrogance and rebellion against God.
Discuss.

Don't forget about the reading in the synogogue when he read isaiah 61 and its fulfillment which was a declaration that he was the messiah as well as when he declared that before Abrahma was "I Am" declaring himself deity.

according to the book of genesis,all men are the 'son's of god'!
and the woman are daughters of men!
(ya ya,i know the book,and the nephiliam,and enoch,and all that jazz!)
but the bible does say 'son's of god'!
jesus did know his O.T. inside and out,and just reading the gospel you quoted,it seems jesus was pulling a socrates on pilate and the jews,and 'drank the poison',knowing he would die,thus making him a martyr for the 'cause'!
thoughts?

Originally posted by reficul
according to the book of genesis,all men are the 'son's of god'!
and the woman are daughters of men!
(ya ya,i know the book,and the nephiliam,and enoch,and all that jazz!)
but the bible does say 'son's of god'!
jesus did know his O.T. inside and out,and just reading the gospel you quoted,it seems jesus was pulling a socrates on pilate and the jews,and 'drank the poison',knowing he would die,thus making him a martyr for the 'cause'!
thoughts?

what 'cause'? That he is god incarnate who came to die for sins of the world??
So he refuses to accept that he is son of God so that he gets martyr?
Wouldnt he get martyred even if he accepted.

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


when there are prophecies about Jesus pbuh in OT, God knew it and souls of people do exist even before they are born, so was Jesus's soul and God's plan about him present before Abraham, moses pbu them? Ya sure

reply to post by logical7


sorry,i'm not christian,and i do not believe he was 'god' incarnate.
the 'cause' would be kicking out the roman occupiers,and bringing back his people to the real jewish faith of the O.T.
if you study this story like a historian would,it this would make a lot more sense than 'god' sending down his 'only begotten son' to be murdered for the sins of an ungrateful human race!
when is the second coming again?!
it will be a hell of a day(forgive the pun!) if a palastinian,chauvinistic,religious zealot who sacrifices animals on an alter in front of Yahweh,who wants you to sell all your possesions to buy weopons,who back slides while dying on the cross(father,why have you forsaken me?!),who denies his family,and denounces every one who doesn't follow his way.(let the dead bury their own!)
sounds like fun times ahead!

reply to post by reficul


historically speaking, he was a man, a smart one.
Thats my point, a man, not god neither son of God.

reply to post by logical7


cheers! glad we're on the same page!
i put him in the same category as the budda, ghandi,confucius, and the like!
enlightened!
peace be upon you!

The leaders of the church would preach the scriptures depicting the messiah. Jesus is the man spoken of by isaiah. If they preach the prophets they preach of the Word which is Christ. The Pharisees did not practice what they preached but cold heartedly read the scriptures, misbelieving what they said. Therefore, they have no excuse and neither do you, because you have heard God and denied Him as such out of your own pride.

You brought this one up.

This passage is the one that proves to me that Christ Yeshua, actually existed, not just a a metaphor or collection of some of philosopher's such as Seneca. BUT, it also alligns with Christ being a very enlightened and advanced human being, though I still believe Immanuel, God/Goodness with us, though he also said we are all to do what He has done and greater, we are all asked to be Christed, to Awaken, to become One With God and Goodness and Love and to bring into the World the True Light of Kindness and Compassion and Progression, and Service To Others. He is our Big Brother.

Luke wrote alot of the new testament and he already pointed to Christ being more than "from Nazareth" but head of the Nazarenes and clued us into Paul being a Trojan Horse from Rome. The rift between Peter and Paul seems to be the rift between the true Essene Christian people and the Roman hijacking and altering.

www.thenazareneway.com...

Now going back to that passage.

If they had simply made it up, it would not have been worded at all like that.

That it was, to me is more of an altering.

Roman Law, is our Corporate Law.

Have you ever seen a sovereign win in Court? The whole straw man, you are forgoing Constitutional real Flesh and Blood rights when you become your avatar.

Well Corporate Law and Navy Law is based on Roman Law.

And I believe we're witnessing an extremely advanced aware Good Person Empowered from on High, using the Sovereign Defense in court.

reply to post by reficul

according to the book of genesis,all men are the 'son's of god'!
and the woman are daughters of men!
(ya ya,i know the book,and the nephiliam,and enoch,and all that jazz!)
but the bible does say 'son's of god'!

I'm not aware of all men being called the son's of God in Genesis. Can you show me where that is?

I know of a similar verse in Deuteronomy, but it has been proven to be mistranslation. The correction being a reference to "angelic deities" and not men.

reply to post by backcase


denied God? No!!
I just deny any man who walked on earth as god. Thats blasphemy.
.
I deny Jesus, buddha, krishna, rama etc as god. They were good men. Thats it.
People have a tendancy to blow up the status of the person they adore and forget limits and they associate them with God.

reply to post by Unity_99


he is enlighted, he is christ, just look at his parables, his teachings, they are sensible and wise.
But he is not divine.

reply to post by logical7


Jesus said that John the Baptist is the greatest man to have walked the earth. John the Baptist said that he is not even worthy to untie Christ's sandals. John the baptist also has said "how is it that my God has come to me?".

Don't take it from me, take it from the apostle John, the closest to The Christ and to His Mother. By denying Christ you deny God, because He is " the Way, the Truth, and the Life".

Textsorry,i'm not christian,and i do not believe he was 'god' incarnate.

reply to post by reficul


reficul

It's all a matter of theology and mostly what one is taught as a child. Not always that way but most generally it works that way. Appreciate your honesty because lots of people will not publicly voice their opinion one way or the other.

I was raised with a father who rejected almost all religion regardless of what it was but had a mother who was a stout Methodist and very protective of her belief. My mother ruled the roost in raising ten children and almost all ten grew into their own beliefs. So it really isn't set in stone by any means.

My understanding of God differs from almost all people that I have talked to so I am probably wrong from the very beginning. As I grew into my middle age, I studied some under a Christian Jew Rabbi and adopted much of his teachings.

In our beginning (this world) there was a Creator who was and is of a celestial substance. We call this substance spirit. This world is not of the same substance as the celestial world. We call this world terrestrial. It is taught that the Creator made a void within Himself and this void is called the universe. All of the substance of the universe is the same with variations of patterns. All terrestrial life forms are made from the terrestrial substances and have a limited existence. After that limit of existence is reached, the life forms return to the elements from which they were made. This law applies to the entire universe.

Spirit is invisible to the terrestrial and celestial creation both. The celestial creation was created before the terrestrial creation. Our modern science teaches us that the universe (terrestrial substance) is expanding. The substance that it is expanding into is the celestial substance.

The Creator (Spirit) was invisible to His creation until He brought forth, from within Himself, a visibility to show Himself to the celestial world. This visibility was and is called "The Word." Moses called "The Word" the image of God and he called the Spirit the likeness of God. This is why Moses wrote that God said "let us make man in our image after our likeness." So in effect the human creation was created in two parts. Part one is the image of the creator which is His Word which is of the terrestrial substance. Part two is His likeness which is a portion of His Spirit which is celestial substance. The image will return to its source and the likeness will return to its source after its allocated time of existence in the pattern of which it is created.

Now how does this explain Jesus? The Word exists in the celestial world as the visibility of God but He did not exist as the terrestrial Jesus and He does not exist now as the terrestrial Jesus. After He brought Himself forth into His own terrestrial creation was he called Jesus by the English speaking world. As He was Jesus He was not the Creator or God. This is explained by the Apostle John after Jesus died -- "John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

As He existed in the terrestrial world He was a mortal man in the image of flesh and blood and bone. That image perished back into its original substance never to be known again. The spirit or likeness is what survived and returned to its original source. As the Christ shall return to this earth, He will not be known as Jesus, He will be known as "The Word" -- "Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

As I die I hope that my consciousness will be in the celestial world with a new celestial image. That is my hope
but no guarantee. This is called resurrection. But resurrection does not apply to the spiritual likeness because it has always existed even as we are now. Resurrection only applies to the celestial image. This is explained in 1Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There are volumes of additional information available for any one who should want to get involved but most do not want to get involved with this type of theology because of various reasons. Will leave it at that.

Originally posted by reficul
according to the book of genesis,all men are the 'son's of god'!
and the woman are daughters of men!
(ya ya,i know the book,and the nephiliam,and enoch,and all that jazz!)
but the bible does say 'son's of god'!
jesus did know his O.T. inside and out,and just reading the gospel you quoted,it seems jesus was pulling a socrates on pilate and the jews,and 'drank the poison',knowing he would die,thus making him a martyr for the 'cause'!
thoughts?

God is just a word from my point of view of higher conciousness than myself. But then we have the ultimate conciousness that exists. The one that have all other conciousness as parts of it.

The Jews believed things that was a bit of and Jesus could not say how off they where since it would offend them. So he had to hide the true message a bit and only the people who think and question will get it from my point of view if they are not so pure that they cannot understand duality.

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by logical7

 

cheers! glad we're on the same page!
i put him in the same category as the budda, ghandi,confucius, and the like!
enlightened!
peace be upon you!

I think he is more than enlightened if we use the definition of EN-LIGHT-ENED after the physical change that a spirit/mind/body can go thru. Those people are clearly very wise and changers of humanity (Ta'veren). I do not think all enlightened people have to be very wise. I have meet one person that clearly knew to much and was very harmonious and loving and nice but could not articulate himself in a way to be understood logicly with his surrounding and was labeled crazy.

Are you wise because you stand in a light room or a dark room? Yes you can see more in the light room that will give you understanding but it depends on the person experiancing the surroundings if you become wise from the knowledge.

reply to post by Unity_99


You mirrored my thoughts exactly. Paul was a trojan horse inserted into the story in order to hijack it. I think that maybe Paul and Peter are actually the same people, Peter just defected or was captured by the Romans.

Peter was supposedly crucified upside-down, key word "supposedly". Upside-down crucifixes represent the anti-christ which is what Paul was in my opinion.

Simon/Peter, Saul/Paul, both were founders of the church, Peter was called Satan by Jesus, etc. Not until Paul came around do we see so much emphasis put on faith, which is convenient for the church and their pockets.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by backcase

 

denied God? No!!
I just deny any man who walked on earth as god. Thats blasphemy.
.
I deny Jesus, buddha, krishna, rama etc as god. They were good men. Thats it.
People have a tendancy to blow up the status of the person they adore and forget limits and they associate them with God.

Part of everything that is vs the everything. Yes, it is a part, connected to the whole, and cannot be the whole, but it can be connected to the whole, and understand the information the whole has (as well as it can in a human form). You can only have everything in one spot before a big bang . And you do not want god to come here fully except as a part because that will mean every that exists comes here.