Why do people believe in the story of Jesus but cannot even acknowledge that Aliens abduct people???

reply to post by AQuestion

If you actually think about what I said, you will see how wrong you are in what you conclude because you filled in the blanks of what you were understanding with dogma that is wrong. You were taught bad dogma, don't assume the rest of us believe it.

can you point out his "bad dogma". I'm pointing out yours.

What if, Christ was Human, and we're all gods or alien descendants??

The humans tricked us into thinking we were without science and hid our machines away from us, thousands of years ago.

Imma write a book and start a religion..

Originally posted by sd211212
Just watched the Travis Walton story on Paranormal witness. I have never seen what the other eyewitnesses believed or heard their stories. Travis has been made out to be a hoaxter, liar, delusional etc... Watching the emotions from his co-workers was moving. Especially the boss and the shy guy. dont know their names but apparently this event traumatized each and every one of them. I thought the Sheriff actually finally believed these guys but to this day he does not . He still believes it was made up and Travis hid out for a few days. Now they should get an academy award for that show. They showed raw emotion. So back to the Sheriff. Im sure if i were to ask if he believed everything in the bible and the story of Jesus he would say of course. Jesus walked the earth, cured people, died and rose, came back to the disciples etc... but aliens nope!!!!!!!!

-----snip-----

You're asking the wrong question.

The question is: Why do people believe in God(s) (no need to single out Christians), Witches, Magic, Demons, Nessi, Bigfoot, Angels, Alien Abductions, Channeling, Remote Viewing, ..... add to the list as you please, when the evidence for any of that is spotty to non-existent (to put it mildly)?

Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" should be required reading for everyone.

reply to post by AQuestion


I am going to end our conversation here because I should be going to bed, but I want to say that you are what a person of faith should be. And you do not fit that "stereotypical" mode. It must be bothersome to be lumped into a category of religion by choosing to believe in Christ. It is unfortunate that many people allow themselves to be conditioned to think that "Believer in God/Christ = All Bad things that have been indoctrinated into me" Its about personal belief, interpretation, and spirituality not a text book dogma.

Aliens leave no evidence behind, they might as well be ghosts, the show Ghost Hunters might as well be called Alien Hunters, the conclusion and amount of physical evidence remains the same.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


Dear TheSparrowSings,

Please have a nice nights sleep. 2,000 years ago the bible predicted that it would be spread throughout the world and then the church would fall away. That is what is happening, that is the nature of all organisms and that is why variety saves a species and conformity kills it. We on this earthly plain are looking through a glass darkly, we are imperfect and see imperfectly. I don't really care if people believe in God or not, that is between them and him, doesn't involve me, a personal choice. The most angry atheists I know and have interacted with know their bible better than most christians. They were just taught by people who knew bad dogma and were threatened with hell for not knowing the verses correctly.

I went to a church and listened to the sermon and stayed afterwards to hear from some missionaries. A man who was behind me in line to hear the missionary asked me if I knew Jesus. I was incredibly offended, I had just listened to the pastor of the church and he knew it, he had seen me. I detest being asked if I know Jesus, I knew him better than this guy. We are to have a reason for believing what we do and to offer it freely, it is not our job to hunt people down like animals, beat them over the head with threats of hell and then blame them for not believing us.

I don't mind being compared to stereotypes by the bigots. What I dislike is bad theology by people claiming to be Christians when they have no love in their heart. On one of my first posts, I was told that I should die by a gnostic, simply because I believe in Christ. I had complemented the dude on his accurately describing their beliefs. I said I disagreed; but, did not attempt to prove anything, you can check my profile and posts. I thought he did a good job. I studied them too. I knew what they believed and he summarized it well. I believe in reminding Christians to love everyone and be in service to others.

The OP wanted to ridicule Christians, that is just what it is. He lied about it and tried to be cute and that is why he did not answer my questions about aliens. He got defensive and attacked the belief in Jesus, not a first on ATS. He ignored my questions because he did not have answers. Anyone can read the whole thread and see if I have been consistent and responsive to questions asked of me. He is afraid of the truth, I am not. In the past when such discussions have occurred, I have often woken to tons of questions all unrelated to the OP and limited to asking me to prove there is a God, off topic garbage proving the sincerity of the original post.

reply to post by AQuestion


Well since I'm not attempting to change you belief system only discussing the initial points I made this will probably be my last reply on the specifics of your own beliefs as you are reporting hem to me.

You mention my ability to provide simple and clear answers (or reduce) as confusing; but, every thought is simple once you actually understand it.

We needed to find a common ground as for the dialog to have any meanings your ability to simplify my first example (a reduction) was ultimately an oversimplification from your part as I think I demonstrated on the last post, to understand one needs to comprehend and accept other more complex beliefs as the system becomes always a complex structure. In any case I understood and share your core rational that is more an adherence to an intrinsically good message notwithstanding the authorship.

As you are the one struggling to have a dialog when you admit my words are simple, the problem is with your over complicating the simple.

My comment was in regards to establishing a mutual understanding a starting point, even if core belief system is simple in its fullness it requires the belief in more and more complex constructs, being the first an intervening and personal God, a god that cares about you as a specific individual (something that I do not share or require and truly find irreconcilable with reality)

Jesus was talking to Moses

An error or is it intended ? In your system (that I take is a personal construct based on selected Christian dogma) is Jesus God ? My view from the Bible seems to indicate that he is not, as presented Jesus seems to have freewill of sorts even if his existence was seemingly predetermined at the same time. In any case freewill and destiny are themselves very murky concepts. This has to do also with another very complex concept of the Trinity that also has a link into...

The Old Testament states that none have an excuse for saying they did not know God as he is in everything.

I also do not believe in the Bible as a word of God but only as a human construction even amalgamation of pre-Judaic beliefs. The fact that, as you stated on your post that I've then commented on initially, the texts were selected and interpreted across time should make any claim regarding its "divine" origin and intrinsic value disputable at least, as we all know the nature of man.

I said "us", I just meant humans at a minimum as that is what I am.

Did you know that Neanderthals performed burial rights ? This is a fascination area also, since concepts of soul and resurrection are intertwined with the concept and understanding of death. But if God is present in all, by its own design what function had Jesus and do you see any problem with the type of massager selected to me it seems an extremely unreasonable belief in par with having aliens send messages trough crop-circles. What about those that would only learn of Jesus a millennium and more after...

You see hell as a punishment and heaven as a reward

I do not see, I was using the Catholic Christian view, in that regard I'm also closer to you. I've come to a somewhat recent realization that near death events can be seen as the realization of what you state, as we die (I do not believe that individuality survives death) a personal balance is made and as reported time loses any significance, this can occur without any magic or divine intervention...

If you actually think about what I said, you will see how wrong you are in what you conclude because you filled in the blanks of what you were understanding with dogma that is wrong. You were taught bad dogma, don't assume the rest of us believe it.

I end by sticking to what I said and concluded. Deep religious beliefs affect the capacity for critical thinking. Your own belief system is personally shaped the inferences I made were from what is generally believed in Christian faith (with some divergences here and there regarding denomination) it was those dogmas I was attempting to use to establish a dialog, not making any assumption...

Even if you think your system is simpler I think I have demonstrated that it also relies, even requires, a more complex belief structures to have any significance to you and to make sense to others. I agree that at the core, what you see as important is simple and I even share that core idea but the context or how you give it justification and importance is not as simple as for instance my own belief system. Simplicity or complexity in matters of faith are not important beyond the mental energy and effort in keeping any positive and wanted delusions alive.

reply to post by Panic2k11


Dear Panic2k11,

You are very amusing.

We needed to find a common ground as for the dialog to have any meanings your ability to simplify my first example (a reduction) was ultimately an oversimplification from your part as I think I demonstrated on the last post, to understand one needs to comprehend and accept other more complex beliefs as the system becomes always a complex structure.

You miss the first part, you couldn't prove your assumptions, how can we move on from that? If you couldn't answer the simple ones, how will you possibly answer the more complex ones? Now tell me what and how I oversimplified anything. Be specific, not general and dismissive because you cannot prove your point.

Now where you bring up my edited comment on Moses is also funny. The context was that Moses was saved, people can go back and read that, they can read my prior posts and see your insincerity. Jesus is God, what does that have to do with Moses? You then mention that you don't believe there is a God that cares about us personally. What point are you trying to make. Yes, I believe God cares about all sentient beings and everything he created. I won't duck that or hide from my belief. Then you say you don't believe what the bible says, okay, don't. I didn't ask you to. We disagree on some fundamental things, I think that was already apparent.

This is where you completely lost me. You tell us how you believe in that we survive death; but, lose our individuality. Huh? If we cease being us, we cease being us. We may be something else; but, we cease being us.

I end by sticking to what I said and concluded. Deep religious beliefs affect the capacity for critical thinking.

The final part is the best, you believe in a higher being and complex understanding of him; but, you think that people who such beliefs don't have critical thinking. You are basically saying that you don't think you have critical thinking. Okay. Have a great night.

The main problem is that people are hoaxing abduction stories a lot and people who see this like myself, talk about it because it isn't fair to try to paint truth alongside of lies so it needs to be vocalized. Unfortunately people who hoax stories make it hard in the event there really were abduction victims and hoaxers need to learn this. Kinda like the boy who cried wolf, if disinformation people use certain tactics, it just might backfire.... I'm also sure that each case is different and the reasons for deciding someone is lying may be very subtle and intricate... they should always attempt to be as all inclusive as possible and sometimes this is hard.

People believe in Jesus because they feel suffering and then wonder if there truly is a kinship with another who suffered, then they feel his spirit and they believe. I believe that happens because that spirit is real and answers you... oddly. I know, I know.... probably not the answer you're looking for but that is what I believe and I believe it because it has happened to me. Some just say they believe because everyone around them says that. I think some just truly want to believe and maybe there is something missing but I don't think it is wrong, maybe they will really find something. I just think people should be careful not to confuse what they believe with things that can effect other people unwillingly.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by sd211212

 

I see what you are saying. Why would someone believe in religious personas like Jesus without even a blurry photo, when they will often refuse to believe in phenomena with a living and tested witness who is alive today.

There was little real evidence of the life of Jesus before some recent finds, it was based on stories from hundreds of years ago passed on.

I am thinking it is about being taught something by parents or others from a young age as if it were proved true.

Thats exactly the reason, its called brainwashing.

Food for thought: Hitler's Ministry of Propaganda and Indoctrination used b&w film, free radios, posters, youth groups, controlled newspapers, toys and such to change the ideology of his entire country. He targeted the youth. Hollywood is the largest pulpit in the world, and it preaches evolution, the love of sin and extraterrestrials. It despises Christ Jesus. Is it any wonder that the majority in the western lands, the vast majority of who are descended from Christian forefathers, now believe in extraterrestrials instead of the Saviour? Of course not. Is it any coincidence that this same group continually states that Christians are "brainwashed" yet cannot fathom that they themselves have been subject to the new and improved Ministry of Propaganda?

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations ....

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by sd211212

 

I see what you are saying. Why would someone believe in religious personas like Jesus without even a blurry photo, when they will often refuse to believe in phenomena with a living and tested witness who is alive today.

There was little real evidence of the life of Jesus before some recent finds, it was based on stories from hundreds of years ago passed on.

I am thinking it is about being taught something by parents or others from a young age as if it were proved true.

Thats exactly the reason, its called brainwashing.

Food for thought: Hitler's Ministry of Propaganda and Indoctrination used b&w film, free radios, posters, youth groups, controlled newspapers, toys and such to change the ideology of his entire country. He targeted the youth. Hollywood is the largest pulpit in the world, and it preaches evolution, the love of sin and extraterrestrials. It despises Christ Jesus. Is it any wonder that the majority in the western lands, the vast majority of who are descended from Christian forefathers, now believe in extraterrestrials instead of the Saviour? Of course not. Is it any coincidence that this same group continually states that Christians are "brainwashed" yet cannot fathom that they themselves have been subject to the new and improved Ministry of Propaganda?

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations ....

It doesn't teach the love of extraterrestrials. That is no longer the mainstream overall concept.

You are totally forgetting a slew of alien horror flicks. Alien scare movies are always more loaded with suggestion than nice alien movies. Nice alien movies are usually just silly but scary alien movies are TRUE STORIES and about things that happen all the time and are mysterious like CROP CIRCLES and MUTILATIONS and all kinds of incriminating detail that people will write about relentlessly while swearing it's all true and refusing lie detector tests.

If there is any piece of work out their that talks about ETs being related to Jesus and angels MOST CONVINCINGLY... I'd have to recommend the Holy bible.

I can watch movies all day and have the sense to not be phased by science fiction, but I get to reading the bible and I'm shocked, astounded at the references to alien visitation and what is unfolding in front of us. I would go into detail but it gets kind of scary because I'm not so sure mankind has gotten it right yet. You know what God does when man goes astray, right? He makes changes. He makes DRASTIC changes. We are not just talking about a dude with a beard, we are talking about an intelligent cosmos that has our fate in it's cruel grip. Our spirits are eternal, that's great... but our flesh has REPEATEDLY been condemned as being inferior. That doesn't scare me as bad as it does some people and I'm mostly concerned about the pain involved but if you really want to preach bible stuff, this could get really interesting.

I knew as I watched this thread turn into a religious debate that at some point there would just be an end.

I would just like to point this out. 2,000 years from now there will be in our history a discussion about how we fought about things we couldn't prove, fought wars for things that didn't count, and had stories so similar in "coincidence" that if you changed a few words from any alien best selling book and the bible there would be no difference.

They will either be both in fiction or the non- fiction section of the library that we would have etched into our brains because we forgot to notice that the world that we actually live in is being destroyed, our thoughts will no longer be our own, and whether you believe in aliens the devil or god, it will no longer matter.

If we are lucky a few will have the free will that we fight about, we will be abducted whether it be a little green guy or a DOJ agent, we wont have to discuss books, as they will be ingrained in us. Our children wont have the right to pray in school to who you want, as it will be what THEY want, you may ask.. "Who's They", well "they" are the ones that are causing this conflict.

We are angry with each other as if we had some type of control over what we learned as children, and what our parents were taught when they were children. Whether you are any denomination, it truly doesn't matter, as we are ALL distracted. Yes, some more then others,

Will what you debated today help us tomorrow??? NO! Will he change your mind? NO! Will she change her mind? NO! So, all in all believe what you want, just make sure that when you look back at what you discussed and read here today, that you know that right now, THE FUTURE IS MUCH MORE INPORTANT THEN OUR PAST, NO MATTER WHAT GETS YOU THROUGH THE DAY, OR WHAT MAKES YOUR HEART HAPPY!!

The one things that we ALL have in common is an enemy.... are YOUsure you know who it is???

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

The one things that we ALL have in common is an enemy.... are YOUsure you know who it is???

Its the enemy of distraction? The thing that makes our attention waver from focusing on the now?


my brain is a bit frazzled from work today..so that was mabey not the best answer.

reply to post by sd211212


Simple! Because Jesus existed. Aliens have never abducted anyone. I am sure there is a psychological phenomenon where people believe they have been abducted after experiencing a dream or hallucination. I can safely say that no human being has ever been physically abducted in the whole history of time and creation.

People who believe all this stuff about aliens and abductions are tricksters. Their influence is one of deceit and confusion.

I wholeheartedly implore people to concentrate on the real so we can get something done about this mess we are all in. Confine your imagination to sci fi novels; science FICTION not reality!

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

They will either be both in fiction or the non- fiction section of the library that we would have etched into our brains because we forgot to notice that the world that we actually live in is being destroyed, our thoughts will no longer be our own, and whether you believe in aliens the devil or god, it will no longer matter.

yes i notice this and our protection is eachother possibly or some event of mystery and gives us the strength to retain our thoughts even after the cataclysm.

reply to post by Revolution9


Two words for you: PROVE IT

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

THE FUTURE IS MUCH MORE INPORTANT THEN OUR PAST, NO MATTER WHAT GETS YOU THROUGH THE DAY, OR WHAT MAKES YOUR HEART HAPPY!!

YESSS!...my heart has muscles it gets beaten up alot.

Im tough ill survive....kind of..just and then mabey not.

reply to post by sd211212


Why is it that most people believe in aliens and UFOs and psychic abilities and ghosts and other such paranormal nonsense, but the moment someone says something about Jesus, those same people slam that person?

Never mind, He already answered that question.

John 15:18-19(KJV)
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

reply to post by sd211212


Why compare it to Jesus? They had books and writing back then. Jesus is no different than believing Abraham Lincoln once lived. Or any other historic figure. There's more evidence, more documented writings about Jesus than most other historic figures.

As for the aliens I guarantee it was either the you-es mil testing out one of there UFO's. Or else it was an encounter with demons who tend to do abductions as well, and or the illuminati as they probably have ufo's type space craft. And might be lizard like. I know that all sounds crazy but unless they were just trying to hoax people to get famous then this is got to be the reason.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I knew as I watched this thread turn into a religious debate that at some point there would just be an end.



who you want, as it will be what THEY want, you may ask.. "Who's They", well "they" are the ones that are causing this conflict.

We are angry with each other as if we had some type of control over what we learned as children, and what our parents were taught when they were children. Whether you are any denomination, it truly doesn't matter, as we are ALL distracted. Yes, some more then others,

Will what you debated today help us tomorrow??? NO! Will he change your mind? NO! Will she change her mind? NO! So, all in all believe what you want, just make sure that when you look back at what you discussed and read here today, that you know that right now, THE FUTURE IS MUCH MORE INPORTANT THEN OUR PAST, NO MATTER WHAT GETS YOU THROUGH THE DAY, OR WHAT MAKES YOUR HEART HAPPY!!

The one things that we ALL have in common is an enemy.... are YOUsure you know who it is???

Peace, NRE.

edit on 25-10-2012 by NoRegretsEver because: spelling

I agree with a lot of this, but the pulse of the internet is something I think indicates a lot about the times and is greatly important. Sure, these arguments may mean something only to those that read it, but what if one of the people who read it is a person who is writing unknowingly for propaganda... because I'm 100% positive that even if no one on here was writing propaganda, a hell of a lot of people sure are reading it.

Do you know they are trying to start a war?

You know they are pulling a lot of the same old tricks but you know what one of your best tools against propaganda is? Truth, fact, information that the internet can bring you. That's how you break the cycle.

Those who write propaganda read responses. Tell them you do not believe it and maybe they will start feeling inadequate and start another career. Don't let liars win just because nobody spoke up and told them they're not winning anything. They'll never learn... they'll just bleed into the background and fit right in. We'll all just let it happen... and when they send men we know overseas and they come back injured because somebody in another country took him for an invader we can hate them for hurting one of our own when we were the one's who sent him there... even if all we did was sit and said nothing. We'll enjoy reading books and watching films but fiction because for some reason the truth hurts and nobody likes to hear about it unless it's sugarcoated.

It makes no sense and I know you know this so I just want to make one very direct point.

Nobody has got any business saying any other person is evil, be it fanatical Muslim or scaly green ET, if they do not have some kind of evidence to back it up or a damn good hunch on motive because this crap about generalizing a whole group of people based on things people don't know anything about is why we have war.

Go shoot those people... YES SIR.

They don't even know those people.

That's a bad habit people need to break.

Again, they are trying to start a war.

People need to watch very close attention to what is happening because it can be stopped.
It can be, it should be and it could very well have dire implications on your soul.
I feel very strongly that any part of this cycle that we have broken is directly due to outcry which would not have been heard had every voice of every victim been stiffed. I feel very strongly about freedom of information and a lot gets shared in these forums. I am certain that discussions on these boards may have changed something somewhere in the world but things will always change for the worse if no one cares and makes an effort to wade through the muck of lies or bs is all the net would be... things go to hell.

It's actually better if things get hashed out online... a lot can get said with no bottles over the head... The internet is a very important tool that must be used for our betterment but people have to make that happen and what that means to me is that people need to quit spreading lies about people they don't even know.

All these idiots do is get everybody involved in their drama because all they do is talk crap about who's better and who's best.

So I'm going to throw it back up in their face when somebody makes a stupid comment about why it would be ok to bomb Iran or why some beings no matter what they've achieved they get talked about like a dark age boogieman tale because some men have the audacity to not be able to accept that an intelligent being might not look anything like their ugly asses.

If they would quit making such idiotic generalizations nobody would have to point it out to them.