Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

Originally posted by Cynicalhope
The point is moot because the statistics are flawed. I'm not defending or supporting anyone, except that you cannot make reliable predictions about a population based on a sample of 503 people.

How Many People Do I Need to Take My Survey?

Great question! And we’ve got a handy-dandy table with the answers. To use the table, just ask yourself two questions:

How many people are in your population?
How representative do your survey results need to be?

Answering the first question is pretty simple. The second can be a bit trickier. Think of it this way: the closer your sample is in size to your population, the more representative your results are likely to be. And that’s why you’ll notice that the recommended sample size in the table below gets smaller as your tolerance for inaccuracy—or error—gets larger.

Israel's population

www.google.com...:ISR&dl=en&hl=en&q=israel+population

7,765,700 - 2011 Source: World Bank

reply to post by Swills

I used to read quite a few Jewish opinion pieces. I would say that the following quote from "The Independent" sums up the issue:

Many now see the two-state solution, even though publicly backed by Mr Netanyahu at the outset of his term, as an increasingly distant prospect, given the expansion of Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem – territories that along with Gaza the Palestinians want as their future state. That leaves the prospect of a one-state solution, an outcome favoured by some Palestinians, but anathema to Israel as it would threaten the country's Jewish majority.

Many Israelis also fear such an eventuality because it would undermine the Jewish State's democratic values if it were forced to adopt discriminatory policies to retain its Jewish character.

The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority
[underlining by pthena]

The terms Jewish and Democratic when applied to a state are oxymoronic.

As things stand: If Palestinians who had been displaced during the Nakba were allowed to return, along with their descendants born in refugee camps, the demographic majority would shift away from Jewish. If the West bank were annexed to Israel, the demographic would not be Jewish majority. The Jewishness of Israel is maintained by very strict immigration controls favoring one group of people over another.

The conclusion of most "Pro Israel, Pro Peace" opinion makers is the absolute necessity of rapidly implemented two state solution which continues to deny right of return to displaced non-Jews. So even the most liberal of pro Israel people are still stuck on the notion of the "Jewish" nature of the so-called Jewish state of Israel.

This seems quite contrary to the American notion of democracy. I see the American support for a Jewish State of Israel as a regression back to days when the U.S. was basically the WASPM (white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male) American democracy .

There's a reason the press doesn't report bad news about Israel;

LINK

There is a strong suspicion in Helsinki that Israel exacted “price tag” revenge in lobbying against a Finnish seat on the Security Council because of past statements by members of the center-left Finnish government of National Coalition Party Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen against Israeli treatment of the Palestinians and the fact that the Estelle, the latest ship that tried to run the Israeli blockade of Gaza, is registered in Turku, Finland and was flying the Finnish flag. Price tag attacks have been behind Jewish attacks on mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches and shrines in Jerusalem. Jews carry out such attacks as the “price tag” for pressure brought by Palestinians and Christians against Israeli expansionist policies in east Jerusalem and the West Bank.

Funny, the ONE GOOD thing that might come out of Citizen's United, is that other countries can now OUT BID Israel. Of course, it's really going to be tough to outbid banks, because they can basically print money now.

I'm not going to look at the CEOs of the top 10 banks right now, because that could be depressing.

reply to post by pthena


Good summary of the "two state" dilemma.

I think the other HUGE problem Israel has with their security is; they can't quit the Palestinians. They build their fences, hire their proxies within the target population to betray them, and continuously apply harsh punishments to disrupt any "betterment and self-reliance." Meanwhile, economic forces demand cheap labor. Who's going to serve the Knish on the Sabbath? So Israel can have as much security as they'd like -- they still let Palestinians into their hotels, houses and factories, because that's where the cheap labor is. Palestine is the Mexico of the Middle East (no offense to anyone, just naming the issue).

So it serves corporate interests to keep the Palestinians uneducated and desperate. It serves the Likud party to have a constant enemy. And it scares the population to be a minority.

Israel has the tri-fecta of what creates an apartheid state, and a permanent 2nd class.

reply to post by Swills


In the USA, a population of about 330 Million -- surveys routinely use a sample size of around 2,000 (if my memory serves). They claim with that an error rate of +/- about 4% -- but that's possibly a stretch. A lot is done to randomize the Zip codes for polling, but it also relies on who is going to respond -- which is a self-selecting group.

If you get hold of the survey, it's important that it says what percent responded --- because anyone NOT responding to the poll, should be considered and "undecided" or perhaps someone offended by the question. If the majority do not respond -- then you can't take the results at face value. If most do respond, then it's a higher quality poll.

Also, you often pre-select for employed people with phones and for older people because most youth do not have land lines. So most surveys you get have are predominantly weighted towards more established people, unless they are "location based" polls, where a pollster is sent out to get a person at random.

Originally posted by Swills
I just had my first real life face palm moment when I read that headline.

Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

www.haaretz.com...

Survey, conducted by Dialog on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, exposes anti-Arab, ultra-nationalist views espoused by a majority of Israeli Jews.

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.

A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows.

The survey, conducted by Dialog on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, exposes anti-Arab, ultra-nationalist views espoused by a majority of Israeli Jews. The survey was commissioned by the Yisraela Goldblum Fund and is based on a sample of 503 interviewees.

The questions were written by a group of academia-based peace and civil rights activists. Dialog is headed by Tel Aviv University Prof. Camil Fuchs.

There's a pie chart on the link that shows the questions asked and the percentages of the responses given, if you're into pie charts, but lets go ahead and post some of the results for our mobile readers

The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter - 24 percent - believe separate roads are "a good situation" and 50 percent believe they are "a necessary situation."

The old Israel is an apartheid state debate will be renewed?


Related articles (I forgot you have to register to read Haaretz articles),

Israelis approve discrimination if West Bank annexed: Poll - Region - World - Ahram Online

The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority - Middle East - World - The Independent

Israelis back discrimination against Arabs: poll

Controversial survey ostensibly highlights widespread anti-Arab attitudes in Israel | The Times of Israel

I know this might be hard for some of you but please, lets not resort to personal attacks or racism. Emotions run high with this subject so let's all be on our best behavior.

edit on 23-10-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)

You really want to make a big deal of this? Easy answer really, jump on a plane. go into Palestine, ask what they think and if they believe in segregation, but you won't, this is to make Israel look bad isn't it?

These numbers can be applied similarly to any nation around the world, without the experience left from years of Islamic terrorism.

I undertsand why Israelis feel they have to defend themselves, but I dont understand my fellow Americans demanding I have to support Israeli Aparthied because its the Christian thing to do

reply to post by something wicked
LOL!

Nobody needs to do anything to make Israel look bad, they do a fine job of that on their own. I think the poll says it all.

Why does the west support an Apartheid state? Because the people who control Israel also control the western countries monetary supply and thus the very countries themselves. It's really very simple.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


See my first post on this page, page 3.

reply to post by something wicked


How am I making a big deal of this? By posting it on ATS for discussion? Mmmk.

Btw, there is no need to quote my entire OP because it is long and can be an eye sore, especially when you're only gonna leave a 2 sentence response. There is also a Reply button. I used it, see above.

Oh well, Jews are racist.. Nothing we can do about that

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Oh well, Jews are racist.. Nothing we can do about that

Actually yes there is something we can do about that. Namely cut all relations and funding to them.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

Actually, Palestinian labor was sharply cut down since the 2nd Intifada (Sept 2000). Many Palestinians lost their jobs in Israel. The difference was made up for by bringing in foreign workers from China, Philippines, and elsewhere. Which brings up yet another demographics and immigration issue: Are Israel born people citizens, or only Israel born people with Jewish parents?

Here's a little something I found: She describes her role thus:

As a Shlihat Aliyah (emissary) working with the Jewish Agency, my role is to promote immigration (aliyah) of Jews to Israel to strengthen and build it, but also to support the Jewish majority.
Foreign Workers in Israel
By Naomi Freedman

And the problem is described:

Today in Israel there are 2800 children whose parents are there illegally. These children were born in Israel, speak Hebrew and go to Israeli public schools. Their parents, however, are not Israeli citizens and are facing deportation from Israel.

This is a complicated situation, since on one hand, those Hebrew speaking "Israeli" children were raised in Israel and integrated in the community, and on the other, Israel, as a Jewish state, wants to maintain a Jewish majority.
. . .
- what should Israel do in order to maintain her Jewish identity and in order to maintain her Jewish values?
- - Ibid

So we see that even Jews whose job it is to enhance Jewish majority in Israel through immigration of Jews to Israel see some conflict with Jewish values ( specifically empathy for others in the community ).

reply to post by Swills


Well they do rain bombs down on them.I don't know, I would have to do the survey myself to believe it. The new worldwide is synonymous with lies these days. More lies than truth.

reply to post by Phenomium


Those bombs rain both ways. The real difference is the Israeli bombs actually kill people, lots of people, and the Hamas/Palestinian bombs don't. At best their rockets are used to scare the Israelis. Since the turn of the century more Arabs have been killed by Israeli bombs than Israeli killed by Arab bombs..... way more.

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

See my first post on this page, page 3.

reply to post by something wicked

 

How am I making a big deal of this? By posting it on ATS for discussion? Mmmk.

Btw, there is no need to quote my entire OP because it is long and can be an eye sore, especially when you're only gonna leave a 2 sentence response. There is also a Reply button. I used it, see above.

edit on 24-10-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)

Fair point, but hey, there you go. So, tell me, does this poll have a counterpoint from the Hamas perspective? Polls say what the pollsters want you to say usually, it's just if you are going to post an anti it's nice to at least have some level of balance.

ETA - are you talking absolute crap?????? No Israeli person has been killed as a result of a terror attack from Palestine? Dear me, I thought you had some level of knowledge. Ok

Originally posted by jonnywhite
I'd like to see a solid reason why Israel is in the wrong. Israel was established in 1948 and, far as I can see, palestinians were given their own land. So why do the palestinians/arabs feel so wronged? ...

it's the other way around. The land was taken from the Palestinians and given to the Jews by the UN in 1947. The Palestinians were never consulted about the partition.

reply to post by something wicked


There are plenty of polls that paint Muslims in a negative light but is there a specific poll that Hamas has conducted? I dunno, but then again I don't read Hamas works or websites so you never know it could exist. I do read Israels news websites and that's where I found out about this poll. So why don't you demonize Haaretz since you're looking to blame someone.

And as far as no Israeli dying to terrorist attacks I never said that but I see how you can be confused if you're not fully aware of the facts. My post you are referring to was about the Qassam rocket vs Israel's military might.

The Qassam rocket (Arabic: صاروخ القسام‎ Ṣārūkh al-Qassām; also Kassam) is a simple steel artillery rocket developed and deployed by the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military arm of Hamas. Three models have been produced and used between 2001 and 2011.

More generally, all types of Palestinian rockets fired into southern Israel, for example the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Al Quds rockets, are called Qassams by the Israeli media, and often by foreign media.[4]

The Qassam gained notoriety as the best-known type of rocket deployed by Palestinian militants mainly against Israeli civilians, but also some military targets during the Second Intifada of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[5][6] Since 2000, Palestinian rockets, which include the Qassam, alongside others such as the Grad rocket, have claimed the lives of 22 Israelis and one Thai national.[7][8]

22, or 28 depending on the source, Israelis since the turn of the century have been killed by these rockets and over 8,600 of them have been fired. Now are you familiar with Operation Cast Lead, just one of Israels responses to these fail rocket attacks?

If you lived in Israel you have a greater chance of dying in a car wreak than you do a terrorist rocket. With the Iron Dome now in place those chances just got better for Israelis and worse for Hamas.

reply to post by Swills


So you concede people in Israel have indeed been killed? Cool I don't want to quiblle over numbers, but you don't include suicude bombers,,,,,,,,, do you?

reply to post by something wicked

I concede? Like I said, I never said no Israeli never died to a terrorist attack, you did. And neither the poster I replied to or I were talking about suicide bombers, but actual bombs that fall from the sky. Do you want to talk about suicide bombers? Maybe discuss numbers or something? Basically, what is your point?