Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

I just had my first real life face palm moment when I read that headline.

Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

www.haaretz.com...

Survey, conducted by Dialog on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, exposes anti-Arab, ultra-nationalist views espoused by a majority of Israeli Jews.

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.

A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows.

The survey, conducted by Dialog on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, exposes anti-Arab, ultra-nationalist views espoused by a majority of Israeli Jews. The survey was commissioned by the Yisraela Goldblum Fund and is based on a sample of 503 interviewees.

The questions were written by a group of academia-based peace and civil rights activists. Dialog is headed by Tel Aviv University Prof. Camil Fuchs.

There's a pie chart on the link that shows the questions asked and the percentages of the responses given, if you're into pie charts, but lets go ahead and post some of the results for our mobile readers

The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter - 24 percent - believe separate roads are "a good situation" and 50 percent believe they are "a necessary situation."

The old Israel is an apartheid state debate will be renewed?


Related articles (I forgot you have to register to read Haaretz articles),

Israelis approve discrimination if West Bank annexed: Poll - Region - World - Ahram Online

The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority - Middle East - World - The Independent

Israelis back discrimination against Arabs: poll

Controversial survey ostensibly highlights widespread anti-Arab attitudes in Israel | The Times of Israel

I know this might be hard for some of you but please, lets not resort to personal attacks or racism. Emotions run high with this subject so let's all be on our best behavior.

And cue the ATS Zionist Defense Force in 5...4...3...2...

I found an counter argument about this latest poll taken and how it's been reported.

That Poll's Apartheid Problem - The Daily Beast

www.thedailybeast.com...

The front page of today's Haaretz featured an article by Gideon Levy about a dramatic survey of Israeli Jewish public opinion. I admire Gideon Levy. He's had the courage over the years to document some of the ugliest aspects of the occupation. But the manner in which his column presented the information—under the headline "Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel"—seems to amount to a misrepresentation of the data.

The poll actually shows that Israelis want to separate themselves from the West Bank, not even annexing the major settlement blocks. Only in a hypothetical situation—whereby their preference that Israel not annex the West Bank is ruled out by the pollster—do most Israeli Jews show a willingness to rule over non-voting Palestinians and thus tolerate apartheid.....

....So what does the poll really show?

1) Israeli Jews acknowledge that at this moment—in the midst of the occupation—Israel's democracy is in crisis. Hence the 58 percent of Israelis who say that "apartheid" could describe the Israeli reality today.

2) Israelis want to separate themselves from the West Bank in a manner consistent with the two-state solution. In two separate questions the notion of annexing any part of the West Bank was rejected.

3) Support for democratic values remains evident. Most Israelis oppose stripping Arab citizens of Israel of their voting rights..

Well well, who would have known ?

And yet Uncle Sam still support Auntie Semite.

doesnt matter what country , what sex, what topic, SURVEYS ARE COMPLETE CRAP!

how do we know they didnt just ask extremist zionist jews, im pretty sure they dont all feel that way. even though i dislike the fact my money goes to them doing crappy things to people, i dont believe that for one second.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
doesnt matter what country , what sex, what topic, SURVEYS ARE COMPLETE CRAP!

how do we know they didnt just ask extremist zionist jews, im pretty sure they dont all feel that way. even though i dislike the fact my money goes to them doing crappy things to people, i dont believe that for one second.

Great argument: "I don't believe it". Very compelling. And surveys and polls are complete crap, that is why they are good at predicting election results, huh? Sorry, Haaretz is a very credible news source; its reporting of a survey conducted trumps your personal notions.

Where are all the other ATS Zionists and Zionist apologists???

reply to post by Swills

What do they mean would support?

izrael is an apartheid state...

I don't like surveys either... but we can't exactly prove that it is bogus or true.

However, if this is indeed the feelings of the common jew man and woman in Israel, I can't express how disappointed I am. It's funny how they are walking down the same path the nazis did...

Zionists are the lowest slime of humanity.

Imagine how many replies this thread would get if it were something showing Muslims in bad light.

Originally posted by 3chainz
Imagine how many replies this thread would get if it were something showing Muslims in bad light.

I think the thread has gotten lots of attention based on the number of flags.

I cant speak for all, but personally, i find it difficult in some instances to participate in threads that touch a sensitive topic like Palestine/Israel, Muslim Faith, Race, Religion, etc etc.

Not that i do not have opinions on the matters, whether is in agreement or opposition of the OP, I just feel that due to how frequently these types of threads pop up, I would rather just read along. This is not just confined to the issue of Israel or Muslims, but many of the above i mentioned.

Over participation in somewhat biased threads, borders common rhetoric.
.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Flags from lurkers and nearly no replies from the regular posters, which are mainly neo-cons so it is no surprise.

But to the topic at hand, Israel shouldn't even exist. No religion has their right to steal others lands because some western power says they do.

reply to post by Swills

....So what does the poll really show?

1) Israeli Jews acknowledge that at this moment—in the midst of the occupation—Israel's democracy is in crisis. Hence the 58 percent of Israelis who say that "apartheid" could describe the Israeli reality today.

2) Israelis want to separate themselves from the West Bank in a manner consistent with the two-state solution. In two separate questions the notion of annexing any part of the West Bank was rejected.

3) Support for democratic values remains evident. Most Israelis oppose stripping Arab citizens of Israel of their voting rights..

That DailyBeast article is not being honest. The poll was very explicit - Israeli Jews do not want Arabs voting in the Knesset, don't want them treated as fairly, don't want them in the same schools, as Jews. The only answer relevant to the West Bank was regarding roads. Everything else they said applied to Arab treatment in the whole of Israel.

reply to post by MDDoxs

I think the thread has gotten lots of attention based on the number of flags.

I disagree. The thread is only 1 page. That will surely change once someone comes in to tell us we're all antisemites for reading this. flags are meaningless to me, and I think to plenty of others as well. The thread title and topic, however, I find interesting.

I don't believe for a second this was an unbiased survey, at all. In fact, I'd go as far as to say they probably surveyed settlers out of proportion to the rest of Israeli society.

But, regardless, there is it. At least some chunk of the Israeli population would be ok with Israel starting it's own pogroms against the arabs, racial discrimination at the government level, a second class status for those of the "wrong" race.

Yup, turning towards a dangerous path. This isn't to say the government will do it. That's not the point. the propaganda is apparently working, as Israeli citizens, some of them at least, are already ok with the fact that arabs are sub human, and are ok with the government going all in and institutionalizing it.

That said.... Let me be the one to ask.....

If this survey was done, say, in the occupied territories, or maybe some of the neighboring countries, would we see a similar reaction directed at Jews?

i'm not naive enough to say know, we already know the response that survey would get. So before you try to skewer this into us hating jews because they are jews, keep in mind, we didn't write the survey.

And it would be hard to cast Israel in a bad light if they stopped doing and supporting bad things. It really is that simple. No other country/government is immune to criticism, Israel shouldn't be exempt either.

While I choke back bile thinking of those who would support these types of laws, I also understand that plenty of Israelis wouldn't support it, and I do NOT judge them based on the actions of their government or the fringe elements within their society.

For a great example of this, go watch "Where in the world is Osama Bin Laden" specifically the scenes where Morgan is in Israel. Just watchinig that you'd think, wow, those Israeli's are a bunch of dicks. But again, these are the settlers and the ultra-orthodox jews, they are a minority, just a very violent and vocal one.

Those people and those who support the crimes they perpetrate will spell the end of Israel as it is now.

What do you expect from the middle east. At least they do not chop off hands.

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Flags from lurkers and nearly no replies from the regular posters, which are mainly neo-cons so it is no surprise.

But to the topic at hand, Israel shouldn't even exist. No religion has their right to steal others lands because some western power says they do.

edit on 24-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)

While I'm most definitely NOT a Neocon, I am a supporter of Israel. Now, assuming that this poll accurately reflects the feelings of Israelis as a whole (and you know what they say about making assumptions) then I can kind of understand it.

Even though Jewish Israelis and Arab Israelis within the borders of Israel proper are living in total peace, the same can't be said about the West Bank. Israelis read the news just like we do, and from their prospective they are being surrounded by newly Islamist regimes bent on their destruction. That prospect is frightening enough without allowing a Fifth column of West Bank Jihadists easy access to Israel.

People forget that tiny little Israel, home to 6 million Jews, is surrounded by 1.2 Billion Muslims in dozens of countries that want to kill them. I'd be apprehensive too.

Then again, people also forget about David and Goliath and how history has a way of repeating. You watch, the Muslims are going to keep on backing Israel into a corner. At some point, the Israelis may feel threatened enough to follow the example of another Biblical hero: Sampson. On that day, I wonder how many Muslims will be shouting Allah U'Ackbar as their cities disappear in nuclear fireballs?

Be careful what you wish for.

As long as we have theocracies, we will always be in the evolutionary sandpit.

The point is moot because the statistics are flawed. I'm not defending or supporting anyone, except that you cannot make reliable predictions about a population based on a sample of 503 people.

Now if this was a collection of many samples, each having 500 respondents, it would be more credible.

Also I googled Yisraela Goldblum Fund and the first 5 pages of information were about the survey. I then looked up who that fund belongs to, the New Israel Fund.

My gut tells me that this survey is not about public sentiment inside Israel as much as it is about public opinion around the world.

When people do a "survey" of such few respondents and proclaim it to represent all of a population there is usually another motive.

I think they are counting on the reactionary folks to just take it and run instead of questioning the numbers.

503 people cannot properly represent the millions of Jews living in Israel. I won't say that the survey is absolutely wrong. But I will say that their methodology is very flawed and should raise eyebrows.

Let's keep digging.

People who are unfamiliar with Ha'aretz can find a useful article about it here:

en.wikipedia.org...

It is an established Israeli newspaper. It is left/liberal in stance, but it is one of the better Israeli newspapers. It is intelligently run by people who know about polls. Polling 500+ people is certainly not taking a large sample but I don't think it would be unusual for a poll to have a sample that size. It's a snapshot. It might be out of focus or possibly skewed, but I doubt it.

The sample is too small to take the trouble to fudge the numbers because the poll would not be taken overly seriously anyway.

But it is interesting enough to beg more polling and larger samples.

Unfortunately this poll is being taken very seriously. If it comes to be that this poll accurately represents the general consensus in Israel, then this is troubling and very serious.

With a sample of 503 you don't need to fudge numbers because they are inherently flawed in terms of representing millions.

What does everyone else think?