Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

reply to post by rickymouse


Your post only makes sense if sexual orientation is a choice. It isn't.

reply to post by rickymouse


Your post only makes sense if sexual orientation is a choice. It isn't.

reply to post by Koros


People who had this different sexual orientation in the past still got married and had kids. So teaching it is alright means that less of this will occur and by that reasoning there will be overall less new children born. Homosexuality is not something that is hereditary, someone with this orientation can have kids that have a heterosexual orientation. I have friends who are or were gay, It has something to do with chemistry.

reply to post by rickymouse


What you are basically saying is this: "Homosexuals used to pretend they weren't, and then entered in to unhappy relationships with the opposite sex and had kids. Why can't they keep doing that?"

Do you not see how bigoted that sounds?

reply to post by Koros


Their relationship could have been happy, just because your sexual orientation is suppressed doesn't mean you can't be happy with life. The people may have felt out of place in society though.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Koros

 

Their relationship could have been happy, just because your sexual orientation is suppressed doesn't mean you can't be happy with life. The people may have felt out of place in society though.

There are differing levels of happiness, however.

Sure, I could lead a happy life with someone I wasn't sexually attracted to. However, it would never offer the same level of personal fulfillment, personal satisfaction, and true inner happiness that I could get out of someone I was attracted to.

What you are suggesting is that gay people should remain in the closet, or at least be obligated to pump out a few kids, all because YOU are worried about population decline.

Let's get one thing perfectly clear. With an average percentage of 3.8% (~4%) of society identifying as gay, gay people do not represent enough of a segment of society for population decline to be a legitimate concern. Even if we were to take in to account how many infertile people are in society (estimates of which range from 3-7% for unresolved fertility), that would still leave us with 89% or more who are both heterosexual and fertile.

So, are you so concerned about population decline that you are willing to say that 89% of society being capable of reproduction with their romantic partner is not enough?

Originally posted by vendettent
Bullies grow up as low income adults (possible addictions) - parents need money - parents see an opportunity for short term pleasure and ignore long term consequences - baby goes into the oven - though parents despise their own parents they intentionally or unintentionally adopt similar parenting techniques - child grows up insecure and hating himself - child realizes if he puts others down it makes his #ty situation seem better - bully is born - cycle may or may not continue.

If a baby bonus is only nickles and dimes to the government couldn't they set in place a program that evaluates the individual totally then the possible parents write a test and if they pass they get right to conception certificate and baby bonus but if they fail (with results that show there isn't chance for change) they get the same amount of baby bonus on the condition that they get a vasectomy (is that right spelling?) or there tubes tied.
I don't know if that is a stupid idea or not, anyone want to share opinions?

The test would involve checking intelligence, psychological health, wealth, criminal record, neurological info then the parents take a test. That way they could get a basic idea of the probs conditions before they take a questions and answer test.

Even if someone fit to have a child and deliberately fails the test for the money it still helps with shrinking the population.

An excellent suggestion, and very similar to what i've been talking about on this thread with the basic minimum requirements test. A test that would cover all the categories you mentioned, and maybe even more. A test that would put steps in place to improve the current situation, which is only for the better for everyone in the long term. What do we have to lose by tying ?

Originally posted by Battleaxe
Hmm...I think it's good that they're teaching children homo- and bi- sexuality isn't abnormal. Really, no one sexuality is 'normal' any more than another. Just because homo- or bi-sexuality is the minority doesn't mean it's any less 'normal' or natural.

Thank you! That's all I wanted to read.


People need to understand this; you can't brainwash kids to become gay just the way you can't brainwash a gay person to become straight. Sure, anyone can pretend to be something else, but they are doomed to live miserable for the rest of their life. Sexual Orientation is NOT a choice. You can't teach anyone to be gay or to be straight.

I have no idea if there's a sexual orientation gene or any kind of biological marker that defines what attracts you sexually, but people are born this way. Deal with it. And don't worry about any kind of homo or hetero agenda. No one is going to "turn" a kid or an adult. What you should be worry about is programs and anything that promotes hate, violence or nonacceptance of someone true sexual orientation.

Now if you want someone to change their life, to behave in a way that pleases you because you think everyone should be just like yourself, then you are the problem.

I'm sorry, this post is not directed to anyone in particular. I just needed to put it out.

To the person who said gays can repress there sexuality and just be with a women, it is possible but not fair. How would the wife feel? Having a husband that doesn't truely love her and is just faking it to please others. I don't think any women deserves to be tricked into thinking that someone loves them in a husband and life way when they can't. Sex would be horrible.

Originally posted by vendettent
To the person who said gays can repress there sexuality and just be with a women, it is possible but not fair. How would the wife feel? Having a husband that doesn't truely love her and is just faking it to please others. I don't think any women deserves to be tricked into thinking that someone loves them in a husband and life way when they can't. Sex would be horrible.

Your absolutely right....and I can tell you this from experience.....it's awful for all concerned...especially the kids.

Gay couples can become parents in a number of ways, and I would much rather see kids grow up with loving parents that Love each other, and have a fullfilling sex life.

I think as parents we should teach our kids, that people are individuals with any number of differences, and as long as someone is not hurting others, they have every right to be just who they are, if kids growing up learning this way, it will translate into them having healthy attitudes about whatever sexual orientation they have.

reply to post by Phage

Would you like to explain how, stating that this topic is linked to the chemical population control agenda is, "Off Topic"?

Sure. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

You do realize, of course, that my posts are ON TOPIC, because the topic IS what the school children are being taught, and I am stating that this may link into the larger overall pattern of population reduction by introducing chemical phytoestrogens into the population, in essence, imposing homosexuality on the population, which has EVERYTHING to do with this topic.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

You have not posted anything which indicates that phytoestrogens induce homosexuality.

You have not posted anything which indicates that tolerance of homosexuality has anything to do with population control.

You are...off topic.

reply to post by Phage

You have not posted anything which indicates that phytoestrogens induce homosexuality.

Reproductive Consequences of Developmental Phytoestrogen Exposure

Prenatal sex hormone effects on child and adult sex-typed behavior: methods and findings

Gay brains structured like those of opposite sex

Prenatal Hormones and sexual orientation

one that can develop into the female sex organs (Mullerian duct) and one that can develop into the male sex organs (Wolffian ducts).

The gonads will become ovaries or testicles, the phallus will become a clitoris or a penis, and the genital folds will become labia or scrotum. Which sex organs develop depends on the presence of the male hormone testosterone (in humans, the default sex is female).

Details of genital development

Sexual dimorphism (two forms) refers to the general phenomenon in which male and female forms of an organism display distinct morphological characteristics or features.

Sex differences in humans: Sexual dimorphism

Sex is determined by two chromosomes: men have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome, while women have two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome contains the SRY gene, which triggers a flood of androgens (the group of hormones that includes testosterone) sometime between six and twelve weeks of gestation, guiding the development of the penis and testes. But this fetal testosterone bath also makes its mark on the brain’s architecture, resulting in sexually dimorphic brain circuits.

Hormones, Sexual Dimorphism, and the Brain—A Primer


Does that meet with your [snip] satisfaction?


And as an addendum, oh holiest of BacterioPhages.....

Name ONE SINGLE CONSPIRACY on this site of CONSPIRACIES that you subscribe to, and post a link.

Name

ONE.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
You do realize, of course, that my posts are ON TOPIC, because the topic IS what the school children are being taught...

Although for accuracy it must be pointed out yet again that the children are NOT being taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' (as per the thread title)... because this whole thread started out via a misleading sensationalist media lie.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

Does that meet with your [snip] satisfaction?

Not exactly.

As far as homosexuality goes there isn't much mentioned. In Reproductive Consequences of Developmental Phytoestrogen Exposure this is about as close as it gets.

This study of over 7000 children enrolled in the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children (ALSPAC) found an association between early life soy exposure (starting prior to age 4 months) and masculinized play behavior in girls at age 42 months. There were no measurable effects in boys, and the effects on girls were attenuated by 57 months of age.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

But referring to the actual study, we see this:

Our study suggests that early-life exposure to soy products may subtly reduce female-typical play behaviors in girls at 42 months of age. Given the low prevalence of soy use in this study sample, associations between soy exposure and PSAI score were imprecise, and results should be interpreted cautiously.

The associations observed here were modest, and the mean PSAI score for all exposure groups was still within the range of normal behavior for each sex.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
So there was no difference seen in boys and girls didn't play with dolls quite as much. Interesting contrast to what the first article stated; "less female-typical play" as opposed to "masculinized play". Seems the first article might have a bit of a bias.

Prenatal sex hormone effects on child and adult sex-typed behavior: methods and findings makes no mention of phytoestrogen but it does say this:

Overall, studies of females with exposure to atypical hormones because of maternal treatment are consistent with studies in clinical conditions, showing behavioral effects of prenatal exposure to androgens, but not to estrogen.

psych.colorado.edu...

Gay brains structured like those of opposite sex

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are inherited, or result from abnormally high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone.

www.newscientist.com...

You list a couple external quotes about primary sexual characteristics having nothing to do with homosexuality. But from your wikipedia link:

Since research suggests that hormones alone do not act on sexual orientation and differentiation of the brain, the search for other factors that act upon sexual orientation have led genes such as the SRY and ZRY to be implicated.

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm not sure why you posted the next quote:

Sex is determined by two chromosomes: men have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome, while women have two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome contains the SRY gene, which triggers a flood of androgens (the group of hormones that includes testosterone) sometime between six and twelve weeks of gestation, guiding the development of the penis and testes. But this fetal testosterone bath also makes its mark on the brain’s architecture, resulting in sexually dimorphic brain circuits.

Hormones, Sexual Dimorphism, and the Brain—A Primer It quite clearly specifies testosterone as the influence for male development. Nothing about homosexuality there. Nothing about phytoestrogen. Nothing about estrogen.


You actually did list one source which indicated there may be a link between phytoestrogen exposure and "masculinized play behavior" in girls. But it seems that interpretation is not consistent with findings of the cited study. It also seems that androgens have a greater effect on prenatal development than estrogen. That would make sense since the placenta is pretty well flooded with estrogen anyway.

On a bit more personal note, my father received estrogen therapy for prostate cancer. He did not become homosexual but his breasts did enlarge. He didn't like that.

You are...off topic. Of course, so am I.

Can we please stop this "homosexuality is not natural?" It's not true, it's damaging to the rights of individuals, and it's a bigoted, small-minded mentality. Homosexual activity has been documented in upwards of 1,500 non-human species. Mallards have homosexual pair-bonding as high as 19% in some populations. Dolphins host bi-sexual orgies, courtship and copulation between two male Bison is pretty common. You can find it monkeys, giraffes, elephants, dogs, cats, sheep, hyenas, multiple lizards, and even insects. It happens and it's not uncommon.

Here's a Wiki link on it


And here's a youtube on it:

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
Although for accuracy it must be pointed out yet again that the children are NOT being taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' (as per the thread title)... because this whole thread started out via a misleading sensationalist media lie.

Yep. I can't believe this thread made it to 40 pages. OP trolled everybody pretty good.

reply to post by Phage

Not exactly.

I can't believe that you couldn't read between the lines.... I am freaking dumbfounded.


Human sex selection begins at conception, when the sperm passes on either an X or Y chromosome to compliment the X chromosome that is passed on from the mothers Egg Cell.

During human gestation, the sex determining chromosomes make the genitalia bud (Pre-formed) turn into either female genitals, or male genitals.

If what is formed are male genitals, they begin producing testosterone, which effects the overall growth of many different tissues, including BRAIN development.

I remember posting CLEAR evidence that not only are female brains different from male brains, but that homosexual brains are closer to their opposite sex (straight) counterpart, than those of their own gender.

The conclusion, is that a sex differentiated hormone imbalance during gestation causes opposite sex determination in the growth of various tissues, INCLUDING THE BRAIN.

www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/2000/158-06/15806-13.pdf

voices.yahoo.com...

news.nationalgeographic.com...

www.cbsnews.com...


I find it hard to believe, Phage, How YOU of all people would need to be TOLD how hormones effect the development of the tissues of the foetus.

and you never answered my last question, Phage.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

The conclusion, is that a sex differentiated hormone imbalance during gestation causes opposite sex determination in the growth of various tissues, INCLUDING THE BRAIN.

You have posted nothing connecting phytoestrogen or estrogen to homosexuality. The display of female primary sex characteristics in male fish is not homosexuality. The display of female primary sex characteristics in male fish has not been tied to any specific cause.

It is currently unknown whether these findings are associated with reduced reproductive capacity (population effects), other reproductive abnormalities in male or female SMB, or with specific chemicals in the water, tissue, and/or sediment.

www.lowersusquehannariverkeeper.org...
Like I said, my dad's breasts enlarged because of estrogen therapy but he did not turn gay.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Phage

 

I am stating that this may link into the larger overall pattern of population reduction by introducing chemical phytoestrogens into the population, in essence, imposing homosexuality on the population, which has EVERYTHING to do with this topic.

Your claim has not been demonstrated to be valid.

and you never answered my last question, Phage.

I am not the topic of the thread.

Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

Oh...children love going against the norm. When they find out homosexuality is normal, this will really put them off of being gay.