Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

reply to post by DarknStormy


Seriously? Not a problem down here? Perhaps I should tell my gay mates that all the crap they have had to put up with in their lives is just their imagination?

Anyway, the fact is, the Proud Schools is just ONE of a multitude of actions that are being taken by the NSW Govt, Health Department, Police, Education Dept etc etc as part of a coordinated strategy to try and reduce the rate of suicide across the whole community - not just GLBT. Part of this strategy is to identify high risk groups and try and find ways to address the things that make them more likely to self harm or suicide. GLBT youth are one - just one- of the high risk groups that have been identified.

Evidence suggests that the rate of suicide attempts for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender (GLBT) people is 3.5 to 14 times higher than for the general community while suicide and self-harm rates for same sex attracted youth and GLBT Aboriginal people are even higher.

This is out of the NSW Suicide Prevention Strategy. If you go to pg 19 (of 60!) you will find where Proud Schools fits in.
NSW Suicide Prevention Strategy 2010-2015

Proud Schools is an attempt to address some of the risk factors faced by one of the groups identified in that report.

Recent national research highlights the impact of homophobic attitudes on young people, including the fact that about two in three same-sex and gender questioning young people reported they had been verbally abused, and that one in five had been physically abused.

The research, conducted by La Trobe University, also showed that the majority of those young people were abused at school and that once the abuse had taken place they no longer felt school was a safe place for them.

Young people who had been abused were also found to be three time more likely to think about harming themselves.

Education minister Verity Firth said bullying or abuse in public schools was not tolerated for any reason.

"That's why the Proud Schoolsprogram aims to replace ignorance with understanding, intolerance with acceptance, and shame with pride," Ms Firth said.

"Proud Schools recognises that for this change to take place whole school communities will need to work together, with parents and teachers playing a key role in identifying and addressing homophobic attitudes."

I have no opinion whether it will help or not because there has been no curriculum or approach finalised but it is not about some gay agenda - it's about trying to find ways to stop our kids killing or harming themselves.

Yep - that's a terrible idea.

.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by Phage

 

Why sub categorise bullying when the truth is all bullying is wrong? Homophobic, just straight out bullying etc.. Its all the same, why is the homophobic side of it a big issue?

We address that issue, they find another way to terrorise someone...

It is a big issue because of the big impact it has. Sure, kids bully each other over everything from clothes, to music choices, to hair color. But, when you attack someone for being gay, for being different at such a fundamental level, it goes so much further.

Day in, day out, across the world gay kids are hearing constant reminders of how society thinks they are "unnatural," "abnormal," "immoral," "sinners," or just "plain wrong." When you go through life, every day, hearing society, your peers in school, some teachers, your religious institutions, and maybe even your own parents telling you that, deep down, you are a flawed and a mistake, it causes problems that go well beyond "kids will be kids." Those things attack the very fiber of who a person is, an immutable characteristic that they can't change and may not understand.

That young boy in your freshman English class who was called a "fairy" or a "fag?" He is probably struggling to understand what the feelings he has means, what that signifies about him, and where his life will lead as a result. He is probably desperate to not be different, not be singled out, and just wants to get through the day.

Or, perhaps, he wants to bring his boyfriend to prom, but is terrified that he'll be beat up, assaulted, ridiculed, or abused when he does. He can't do what the other kids do in the same way they do it. He is different, at a fundamental level, and other kids won't let him forget it. All he wants is to do is be able to be himself like the straight students can be. But, he can't. He can't so long as attitudes like yours, that its all the same, remain. It isn't all the same, and it never will be.

Deleted

reply to post by teamhair

Bullies are bred in homes where inconsistent parenting patterns and inconsistent consequences and abusive, bullying behaviours become the role model. Some bullies are spoilt children who never experience behaviour boundaries.

Some come from homes where there are so many problems that they are neglected emotionally or where the relationship between their parents is poor, stressful and even abusive.

There are two main types of bullies, the malicious who have been born with psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies (their brains are wired differently to ordinary children eg they like hurting animals) and those who are basically non-malicious but use bullying behaviours.

www.bullying.com.au...

See this is the side I'm trying to look at. Maybe the only option is to start punishing parents for their childrens actions? Poor parenting = Bullying.. Spoilt Brat = Bullying. Everything seems to work its way back to the family lifestyle whether its good or bad.

How can schools try to address something which is totally out of their control? The Government can also try but whats the point if parents aren't going to participate? I'm sure there is proof everywhere about why bullying is an issue, but all I see is lifestyle written all over it. How are you going to change an alcoholic father? A drug abusing mother? A kid that gets everything they want and thinks they are better than everyone?

The problem starts at home and needs to be fixed there also. Good luck with that though...

reply to post by Koros


I understand that but from what I'm seeing, this isn't even a homosexual issue apparently. The homosexual bullying is the problem which could also be affecting kids who have never thought about homosexuality. When you look at it from that point of view, its a bullying issue, nothing more.

Of course there are homosexual kids also and things would be much more difficult for them. And I guess this does need to be sorted out to ensure they are not topping themselves.. No-one deserves to feel the need to kill themselves, feel threatened or outcast in any scenario.

Parents I guess should be held accountable to some degree.. I have never looked at the statistics or anything like that when it comes to bullying and I'm actually shocked.. 1 in 4 kids? I understand that homosexuals may have a higher rate of doing harm to themselves but if they make up 2% of the overall population, our straight kids aren't fairing much better. Guess it just shows how screwed up society really is.

reply to post by DarknStormy

I understand that but from what I'm seeing, this isn't even a homosexual issue apparently.

What is it about "most at risk" that you don't get?

According to recent gay bullying statistics, gay and lesbian teens are two to three times as more likely to commit teen suicide than other youths.

www.bullyingstatistics.org...

The problem starts at home and needs to be fixed there also. Good luck with that though...

I guess you read what you want to hear. Nothing to be done about it so why try? They'll work it out on their own.

How can school bullying be reduced?

Effective anti-bullying policies, programs and procedures.
Parents need to their children social survival skills or social resilience. Let's face it, when their child leaves school for the day or for good, bullying is everywhere, on the road, among their friends and at work!
All students need to develop their social and emotional resilience by developing their social survival skills. Then they can create true friendships, a supportive network and block bullying.
The peer group needs to know how to take action to protect vulnerable kids and intervene respectfully. This is the role of the school.
Targets need to learn successful social survival and communication skills to find true friends and belong to a supportive group.
The bully needs to learn more effective ways of relating and feeling empathy

www.bullying.com.au...

reply to post by DarknStormy


That's true - and you can't fix everything, but that doesn't mean you should not try to fix some of it. Like the societal attitudes that make this particular kind of bullying kind of OK to a lot of people. And that does exist down here, both in schools and in the work place. I have seen it and close friends of mine have been on the receiving end.

The bullies at the school I went to were a a bunch of self entitled rich (relatively) kids who thought the world should bow before them. They came from decent homes and grew up into pretty decent human beings - but when they were teenagers they were horrible, verbally and physically, to kids who didn't fit in. Their parents would have been horrified if they knew, but schools didn't worry too much about it back then. This program aims to involve parents as well, not all of whom will be uncaring and dysfunctional. If it makes a difference for at least some kids then it is worth it.

Suicide is final. There is no growing up, getting over it and getting on with your life.

Originally posted by Noinden
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

Just one question, would they teach the how to of heterosexual sex in a "Sex ed" program? Just curious as too your opinion.

The point remains this is an anti bullying program, which is the whole point of this sort of education. ALL kids should be safe from bullying no matter sexual orientation, gender, ethnicity, or religion and any combination there of.

I think they do in the context of how reproduction occurs, and I stated earlier it was an uncomfortable waste of time because I think most kids already had these facts that they learned from thier parents. I would be curious to hear if anyone actually needed "sex-ed" class to learn about the "birds and bees"?

I agree no kid should be bullied for any reason, and I think that should be the focus of this type of program, not sexual orientation in particular.

reply to post by MountainLaurel

I would be cutious to hear if anyone actually needed "sex-ed" class to learn about the "birds and bees"?

That really isn't the main point of sex education. You can find some pretty "amusing" things that kids tell other kids about sex. Amusing ways to avoid pregnancy and disease.

But again. This is not about sex education. You seem to be hung up on that.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

I would be curious to hear if anyone actually needed "sex-ed" class to learn about the "birds and bees"?

That really isn't the main point of sex education. You can find some pretty "amusing" things that kids tell other kids about sex. Amusing ways to avoid pregnancy and disease.

But again. This is not about sex education. You seem to be hung up on that.

edit on 10/25/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I understand your point, and perhaps there is mis-information that should be addressed as health issues.

reply to post by Phage


But also with what your saying, someone else says this.

One student in every four in Australian schools is affected by bullying, says recent research commissioned by the Federal Government.

www.kidspot.com.au...

Children who were bullied were up to nine times more likely to have suicidal thoughts, say some studies.

Now I know the majority will not commit suicide but that is even higher than the homosexual facts. Going off what I could find, 1 in 4 children in Australia is roughly 1 million kids (there being around 4 million kids in schools across the country). That is 5 times the amount of homosexuals in the country..

So is it just the homosexual kids who are at more risk?

reply to post by DarknStormy


There are heaps of other programs targeting bullying of all sorts- this is just one of many. It just happens to be in the news because it's considered "controversial" but it is part of a broad range of approaches to try and stamp out all bullying. In this case it is by addressing the underlying basis of it - the perception that these at risk kids are somehow abnormal and different. They are not. They are just kids.

reply to post by DarknStormy


2/3 GLBT kids are bullied.

The suicide / self harm rate for these kids is possibly greater than 14 x the rate of their peers, certainly higher than 3.5 times. It is not just a matter of numbers, it is about vulnerability. They may be already confused and struggling, they may not be able to talk about it at home, they live in a world where 'gay' means 'stupid and lame' in everyday speech. And then some idiot abuses them or kicks the crap out of them, repeatedly.

I think, we have a duty to try and protect our most vulnerable. That is all children of course but, if we can see that a particular subset of an already vulnerable group are even more at risk, purely because of their sexual preference, then it does not seem unreasonable to address that issue in particular.

Anyway, addressing bullying in general and the particular issues of GLBT kids are not mutually exclusive.

reply to post by Phage


Hey Phage this does make sense. I agree with you!

reply to post by DarknStormy


Umm..... not sure how to word this
but did you consider that perhaps homosexual children are PART of that one-in-four?
in fact, when you consider what a perjorative "gay" is in the schoolyard
maybe your one-in-four is actually the poor kid who happens to be ABNORMAL
and their more normal, yet open-minded friend sitting next to them at lunch.
it doesn't even really matter whether they ARE gay or not
the perjorative, the hurt is still there.
regardless; we are talking about children
being caused needless pain
that we can end.


Thirty-Eight pages of this nonsense?

reply to post by decepticonLaura


Yes I did. But considering that there is roughly about 200-300,000 homosexuals in Australia by the statistics, It wouldn't seem many children would be homosexual. I do understand that there is and they would certainly be more vunerable even with that small percentage. I didn't realise how serious it is here and because I have only had one experience through my daughter, I never really took any notice of it on the larger scale. BTW, the one experience was my daughter being racist to one of her friends. She heard the word from another friend and decided she would belittle her Aboriginal friend at school not knowing how offensive the word reaally was.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

Clearly it IS normal as it's A) not a choice, and B) happening in nature all the time. From a natural perspective it is 100% a normal occurrence.

Not normal would mean it's a disease, and it's clearly not...

You seem to believe this will turn kids gay...which is laughable

edit on 21-10-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

Homosexuality is not a disease. YOur right. The disease is called AIDS, its a result of the act of anal intercourse with a man, I think they call it bum play? lol



Just saying.

Originally posted by teamhair
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

2/3 GLBT kids are bullied.

The suicide / self harm rate for these kids is possibly greater than 14 x the rate of their peers, certainly higher than 3.5 times. It is not just a matter of numbers, it is about vulnerability. They may be already confused and struggling, they may not be able to talk about it at home, they live in a world where 'gay' means 'stupid and lame' in everyday speech. And then some idiot abuses them or kicks the crap out of them, repeatedly.

I think, we have a duty to try and protect our most vulnerable. That is all children of course but, if we can see that a particular subset of an already vulnerable group are even more at risk, purely because of their sexual preference, then it does not seem unreasonable to address that issue in particular.

Anyway, addressing bullying in general and the particular issues of GLBT kids are not mutually exclusive.

edit on 25-10-2012 by teamhair because: fixed stat

Seems like a very bumpy ride, for such normal activities,

Just saying

Originally posted by morethanyou

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

Clearly it IS normal as it's A) not a choice, and B) happening in nature all the time. From a natural perspective it is 100% a normal occurrence.

Not normal would mean it's a disease, and it's clearly not...

You seem to believe this will turn kids gay...which is laughable

edit on 21-10-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

Homosexuality is not a disease. YOur right. The disease is called AIDS, its a result of the act of anal intercourse with a man, I think they call it bum play? lol



Just saying.

edit on 25-10-2012 by morethanyou because: (no reason given)

You are an uninformed fool for thinking this. Heterosexuals actually make up a higher percentage of sufferers world wide. HIV has nothing to do with sexuality.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by Phage

 

No reasonable person would be against anti-bullying programs,

Due to what others have told me,I would consider myself as a reasonable person, but I think these anti-bullying programs are nothing more than a knee jerk reaction so that politicians and the media can say that they have addressed the issue. And as a reasonable person, I know enough to know that usually the "bullies" have domestic or internal problems of their own and use bullying as a form of blocking out their own problems. Rather then addressing the bullying side of it, we should be focusing on why so many peole that are "bullies" seem to have these domestic and/or internal problems. More often than not, "bullies" tend to come from broken homes, where there is a lack of care, love and education.

We can come up with the cure for bullying, but isn't it better to focus on the prevention of bullies becoming bullies in the first place. And another reasonable person once told me that 'prevention is better than cure' !

Or another way of putting it might be, we can keep putting a band aid on a scratch, or we can look at how the scratch occurs and stop the scratch from happening. That way no band aid is needed, because there is no scratch.

I actually remember reading in the Daily Telegraph [Australian hack newspaper], an article saying that bullying was actually good for building up the character of those being bullied. The article specifically used the example of red heads being called "ranga's" and how most red heads surveyed had strong character and used the bullying they had recieved as the reason for such a strong character. This article was from about 18 months ago, yet the same newspaper will now have front page stories on bullying. But i guess the point they were making with red heads was that its only bullying if you allow it to get to you, but if you can turn that bullying into building your own confidence and character, then is it really bullying if you don't allow it to affect you negatively ?