Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

reply to post by MountainLaurel


well, for a start, Billy was originally urinating on the girls he knows, not choking them....
that, however, is just a quibble....
if you read the post, WW specifically stated that it was because it was different.

PHAGE: i was taught that being 'different' and being morally corrupt are not the same thing
WW: What if Billy wants to wee on people? that's gross!

....i am of course paraphrasing, but that's the essential point i was trying to boil it back down to and address.
making it about kinky [and now kinkier] sex was sensationalising it all somewhat.
also while we're on the subject still, what is the assumption you're going with?
Billy's parents got him into the room one night to demonstrate proper chokeholds?
then, what, told him that girls love that stuff and he should try it at the next party?
Sure, that would be pretty wrong, especially if Billy isn't all that bright...
but i feel that's moved on somewhat from where all this started, don't you?


this isn't about sexualising children anyway!
it's about the fact that, lo and behold, gay people exist and are people too.
and that, just maybe, if we thought to mention this to children when we teach them about the difference between their genitalia
a few less of them might jump off roofs.
what a shocker! i can see why we have debated this so intensely for so many pages!

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

I guess you missed the quote from Plato that someone posted, wherein he did just that:

"Homosexuality, is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce." - Plato

So Plato has a quote including the word "homosexuality", a word and concept (of sexual orientation) that was first coined long long long after he died? Are you familiar with the origin??

Can you cite an official source for that quote by Plato?

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
I for one am sick and tired of seeing this agenda playing out. I'm not homophobic in any way whatsoever, I know gay people, but it is wrong to promote the idea that homosexuality is normal. We know it is not right, it is not natural. I may come across as contradictory with that but I honestly do not mind if someone is gay, but at the same time you cannot 'educate' children into thinking it is normal. We all know it is not normal and it almost certainly is not natural.

If people are gay, then let them be so but don't indoctrinate young children into making them think it is right and normal.

A similar program is already in use in Victoria, called the “Safe Schools Coalition” to “support sexual diversity”.

Proud Schools recommends using Personal Development, Health, and Physical Education classes, starting in Year 7 (12- and 13-year-olds), to “incorporate learning about same-sex attraction and sexual diversity.”

The Telegraph’s Miranda Devine wrote that “at least” 10 Liberal Party MPs are “extremely concerned” about the program, and will complain to Education Minister Adrian Piccoli this week.

Devine quoted Upper house MP Fred Nile who called the program “propaganda” and asked the government to defund the program.

“I’m totally opposed to the brainwashing of high school students, especially when they are going through puberty,” Nile said. “Homosexuals at most make up 2 percent of the population - I don’t know why the education department would give priority to promoting this.

“We will have more confused teenagers than ever…children should be allowed to develop themselves,” he said.

As mentioned above, children going through puberty are learning about themselves and developing, education should not be indoctrinating them to think homosexuality is normal.

What do you think?

www.lifesitenews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 21-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)

You say you're not homophobic, yet you refer to the "homosexual agenda"
Think you need to sit and have a think.
I'm not gay, I think there's nothing wrong with it. You're calling the fact that all sexuality should be accepted as normal as an "agenda" I think that's very homophobic.
I admit I don't agree with homosexuality, but I don't have a problem with anyone who does. And that's what these kids need to be taught, stop crying that "they're turnin our kids gayyy!" Grow up man. Are you a Christian?

Well I'm glad there's still plenty of common sense in this thread..

The main points from my POV-

1- Children of 12 year of age "should" be taught about sex, never-mind sexuality - It is science/biology and needs to be learnt, especially around the age puberty starts, that is just my opinion. As you go through puberty, you feel a lot of things - especially about girls/boys/men/women, and being told there is no difference between heterosexual and being homosexual is an "excellent" way to reduce homophobia, prejudice and that undeserved stigma that goes with both.

2- Homosexuality, whilst a reality for many, is unfortunately "still" not considered normal for the vast majority of people - This needs to change, this is 2012, this is life, so get over it already. Unfortunately so many people are so "ignorant" they will never understand this, because all they we keep saying is; "we were naturally created to mate with the opposite sex!!" Yes you are right - "technically/scientifically", but it is "normal" that there will "always" be homosexuals throughout nature. I can't believe people are actually still debating this point.

3- Promote tolerance, and 'educate' children into thinking homosexuality is as normal and the same as being heterosexual, because it "is". It's life, it always will be, it's 2012 and never going away - get over it. Having tolerance does not mean you have to agree with something- What this education program is about- is "encouraging" - not "forcing" people to grow up, and "accepting" not "thinking" being gay is normal.

4- People are calling others opposed to this OP haters and bigots, because the vast majority of are outraged that people still think it's not right to promote equality amongst 12 year olds in school.

5- I do know and understand gay people, and they have been ostracized and frowned upon in society like blacks were. It's not on. Bottom line is; a)Technically/Biologically homosexuality isn't really what people call normal because our physiology is set up to procreate with the opposite sex. b) Homosexuality "is" normal in "society" because it is natural in nature, has been around since life started, and will "never" go away. Kids need to understand this, and therefore accept homosexuals as equally as heterosexuals - Is this really so hard to understand????????

6- My overall point is; This program is to "help kids understand" not "indoctrinate" or "force upon" that homosexuality in "society" & "life" is as normal heterosexuality. - It's "not" trying to teach that it is normal from a technical/biological/physiological point of view.
As I said in an earlier post, I think the article was worded poorly and therefore has rubbed up people the wrong way.

Those are my final points for this thread.

If absolute baffles me that so many people dont know the meaning of normal or "natural"


a : being in accordance with or determined by nature

a : occurring in conformity with the ordinary course of nature


b : existing in or produced by nature : not artificial

c : having a form or appearance found in nature


www.merriam-webster.com...

seeing how homosexuality is found across the board in the animal kingdom it is thus normal and natural .P-E-R-I-O-D


I think some of you guys poor understanding of the English language and insistence on somehow thinking you can change a word as you see fit is more annoying than your hatred for gays.

I hope you pro homos out there are happy with this news.

This crap should be kept away from our children. It goes to show how bad its gotten with this agenda.

reply to post by mikeone718


and those that are pro the pursuit of happiness.

Not that it was ever apart of our societies ideal...

Originally posted by mikeone718
I hope you pro homos out there are happy with this news.

This crap should be kept away from our children. It goes to show how bad its gotten with this agenda.

Which blatantly means you are homophobic.

IMO the majority of homophobic people are usually one of the following:

- Closeted gay
- In denial
- Under educated
- Brainwashed by religion
- Or generally just not very nice people

reply to post by decepticonLaura


"Billy" has been used in a few examples in this thread, I guess he went from chocking to peeing.....Oh Lord...lol...and yes in the chocking senario this was behavior he learned from his parents...how exactly we never defined, other then giving "Billy" access to adult toys and materials.

I do not advocate discrimination against gay people....and the way I handled the issue with my child was to tell her that some people have different feelings about what Love and families are.....as she got older I addressed sex questions as appropriate......I never taught her they were "bad.......and would like to think she turned out to be a kind and empathetic young lady.

I do believe a child's sexuality forms on many levels in thier childhoods....and I do also believe that more and more exsposure to extreme and violet porn that kids and teens have access to will effect that child's adult life. I have been told by two different men I cared about that it caused intamcy issues and and a "need" for more extreme and "kinky" sex to be satisfied. That's a whole other topic.

I don't want or trust the schools, ultimately funded by the Federal Government, in our kids education on sexuality...for reasons I think I have made clear.....

reply to post by paganini


Animals also fight, so I guess its also normal and natural to beat up homosexuals?

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Who cares? I'm straight but I don't care what people want to do with their lives. If it isn't hurting me or my loved ones and it makes them happy, again - who cares? Let people live dude. Quite a lot of people are gay, and always have been - although there's far less around than heterosexuals, it is normal for a significant fraction of a group of people to be gay. Your attitude is one of reluctant and unwilling acceptance, you'll tolerate their existence but refuse to validate it.

I for one am sick and tired of seeing this agenda playing out. I'm not homophobic in any way whatsoever, I know gay people, but it is wrong to promote the idea that homosexuality is normal. We know it is not right, it is not natural. I may come across as contradictory with that but I honestly do not mind if someone is gay, but at the same time you cannot 'educate' children into thinking it is normal. We all know it is not normal and it almost certainly is not natural.

Why is it not 'right'? Is it wrong then? Is it evil to be gay?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

So Plato has a quote including the word "homosexuality", a word and concept (of sexual orientation) that was first coined long long long after he died? Are you familiar with the origin??

Can you cite an official source for that quote by Plato?

Law 636c

And whether one makes the observation in earnest or in jest, one certainly should not fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure.

Plato. Laws.

I think it's hilarious you think the concept of homosexuality was coined 'long, long after he died'.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by paganini

 

Animals also fight, so I guess its also normal and natural to beat up homosexuals?

edit on 22-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

Beating up a homosexual is not the same as when animals fights over Territorial issues .Anyways, one should think that a human with a deeper understanding of ethics would know its wrong beating up others unless it is self defense

reply to post by Wonderer2012




Being gay may not be normal but it is natural, people don't learn to be gay your either straight,gay or bi-sexual obviously the MAJORITY are straight.

There have been gay people since the beginning of recorded history you get gay animals so it is a natural state but heterosexuality should be regarded as the NORM.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by pacifier2012
It's just an agenda for homosexuals that have more and more freedoms yet still don't feel satisfied....and they can't figure out why!

Duh!

They want the same rights as everyone else...you know...equality

I guess you aren't for equality...which makes you a bigot.

I'm sure those who are into incestual relationships could very well be demanding the same rights at some point, as well as those who are pedophiles.

After all who has the right to not tolerate how they were "born" ?...as in who they are sexually attracted to...no one is being hurt in the process if all parties are willing...correct?..They will demand their "equality" as well.

Ugh...I can see coming around the bend already..

edit on 21-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Why do the religiously insane always jump into comparing gay people to paedophiles? It's like their last resort when all other insults and attacks have failed

I'll bet that when you have a debate about gay marriage you're one of those religious fanatics who starts screaming "what's next, people marrying goats!?!?!?!"

Paedophilia is illegal because it is the act of taking advantage of a vulnerable person. It is not consensual. Incest is illegal because of the risks to children being born with genetic defects.

Welcome to the world of facts, rather than religious dogma. Pay attention now, you might learn some things.

Homophobia is a disease in our countries because of ignorant people who grew up with ignorant parents, almost always highly religious too. It is a societal phenomenon widely seen in Christian and Islamic nations, and yet doesn't exist at all in many remote social groups where the disease of Christianity never reached.

There is a lot of documentary evidence from tribes all around the world where same sex relationships are conducted in tandem to heterosexual relationships. They have managed perfectly fine, fire and brimstone did not rain down upon them, marriage did not end, procreation did not end.

We don't need to go back too far in our own European history to see that this was normal to them too. But I guess that it's just "coincidence" that where Christian led faith is pandemic, homophobia is too?

I don't know why I bother sometimes, I really don't. It's like debating with a psychiatric patient slamming themselves against a padded wall over and over again. They do not listen to facts or reason, they just pay attention to the BS voices in their heads.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by paganini

 

Animals also fight, so I guess its also normal and natural to beat up homosexuals?

edit on 22-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

what kind of logic is this?

Fighting itself is natural of course as again you see it across the animal kingdom but penguins arent targeting the homosexuals among them and beating them up.

I don't know if you were trying to be a smart@ss here .... but if you were I wouldn't try it again if i were you..

Homosexuality is normal....that's why it is prevalent in the animal kingdom.

reply to post by mc4denmark


So we can justify one natural phenomena yet because the other is Homophobic, it doesn't count? What if I see the world as my territory? Does that give me the right to defend it against homsexuals?

Originally posted by OpenEars123

Originally posted by mikeone718
I hope you pro homos out there are happy with this news.

This crap should be kept away from our children. It goes to show how bad its gotten with this agenda.

Which blatantly means you are homophobic.

IMO the majority of homophobic people are usually one of the following:

- Closeted gay
- In denial
- Under educated
- Brainwashed
- Or generally just not very nice people

You forgot to add religiously insane.

I firmly believe that we should have classed our societies as being in a pandemic of religious insanity a long time ago and fought for a cure. It's just not normal or natural to believe in an invisible sky wizard and live your life following a book. It's definitely not normal to spend your life dictating to others how they should live theirs.

It's just not natural, and therefore I believe that the religious should be stripped of their right to vote.

In all seriousness, I think being under educated is one of the most predominant causes for bigotry of any kind. There have been a lot of studies to show that those who believe in God and hold such bigoted beliefs about others also have pretty low IQ levels.

It seems to make sense too. Look at the way racists and homophobes communicate. They rarely propose their ideas clearly and sensibly. They never have any real facts or statistics, no evidence to support their beliefs. It's basically completely without reason.

They resolutely ignore the facts and scientific evidence (perhaps they have difficulty reading and comprehending?) They use religious quotes to hide the fact that they are losing the debate, and eventually concede with the ultimate stubborn response that it's their opinion and nothing will change it.

It's quite remarkable to see them reaching that stage, it's like a light has almost gone on in their head and they know that what they are saying is basically insane and without any form of reason or logic, but the bigotry wins out because they are more comfortable with that than they are with the idea that they've been a complete tool for their entire life.

It's fascinating to watch them having that little meltdown. And it proves that facts will beat religious dogma every single time, whether they want to accept that or not

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by mc4denmark

 

So we can justify one natural phenomena yet because the other is Homophobic, it doesn't count? What if I see the world as my territory? Does that give me the right to defend it against homsexuals?

seeing the entire world as your territory and seeing a whole group of people as your enemy who you have to attack would qualify you as having rather severe mental issues not you engaging in an act of nature

now thats strike two. Lets see if you have the intelligence to not embarrass yourself further.