I have proof Obamacare will ruin healthcare in America

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Ya I don't get what everyone is so afraid of. Canadian health care is social and it works fine. Pay your taxes and get free surgery. What's the problem?

reply to post by grandmakdw


I just have to point out a couple things to you.

First just because you were covered by medicare and the cost was low, does not at all mean the overall average cost of care is low. There is insane cost shifting going on, where yes medicare costs are low and are mandated that way by law, but the hospitals simply move your costs onto to other patients who have regular insurance or are uninsured.

What you need to be looking at is medical spending to GDP, and if you look at that the US medical system is nearly twice as expensive as any other medical system of any other advanced country. There are many reasons for that - first and the easiest to fix is the drug cost where we pay far more than any other nation, second is legal malpractice, third is college expense for doctors and fourth is well simply we pay for procedures that just don't get done in other advanced countries.

Obamacare is going to make the costs go even higher as it does Nothing to reduce costs and instead increases bureaucracy and forces everyone to get coverage whether they want it or not.

Originally posted by chiefsmom
reply to post by 3chainz

 

I don't know about the info in the OP, as I have never been in the military.
What I can give you are facts, directly from our company accountant. Could you please explain to me why she would not have the facts, as it is her business to know this???????

1) If our company continues to pay for our healthcare, as they do now, not only will they not be able to write it off at the end of the year, they will be penalized.

2) Workers Comp cost will double, if not triple, due to the fact that an injury you incurred at work, which was paid for at the time, will have to have double or more money put away that was paid. This is because all injuries will have to be reported to medicare, so that when you are retired, if any re-injury happens, medicare will not pay, workers comp will have to pay again.

So, what happens when a company has more than one workers comp claim? Their rates go up or they are dropped. Can a business function without workers comp?

Your company is either offering over the top health care benefits or a crappy health care plan. Those are the ones that that might have issues.

As for the workers comp - Why should anyone else other than the employer pay for the furture cost of a work related industry. Do you think people are jsut meat?

reply to post by reeferman


If you read all my posts you would see that Tricare is NOT good. It pays providers so poorly that the best (even just the good) doctors in town won't take tricare patients and the hospital tried its best not to admit me until I was at death's door. I don't blame them because the government insurance pays so poorly that it actually costs the hospitals and doctors money out of their pockets to treat tricare patients. When most americans are on a government plan then the quality of healthcare will plummet because the money won't be there for quality healthcare. The amount billed by the hospital was reasonable considering the level of care I received, $1000 per day and they were paid by tricare less than a cheap hotel gets per day on average, and the hospital was not allowed to bill me for the rest, which is good for me, but means it cost the hospital money to treat me. That can not be sustained if most of the country is going to follow suit.

reply to post by grandmakdw


There are plenty of malpractice suits and horror stories here in the USA not just exclusively to the UK.

As for doctor pay and their education bills... well why does education cost so much?? ANd do not give me this crap that you get what you pay for because that is just as excuse to over price things.

I think under a socialized healthcare system you would have to rework many other things for it to work.

Originally posted by grandmakdw
I now know why patients die of hunger and thirst in socialist hospitals, (google the state of healthcare in UK/England); why they have bedsores; why they die from neglect.

I just spent 5 days in a fantastic American hospital. I had a full RN attend me the entire time, asking me if I needed anything or needed pain meds every 4 hours. The therapist even refilled my water jug. The cleaning person was through and nice. I ordered my meals room service style and they were delivered when I wanted them, and what I wanted exactly, not at the hospital's convenience. If I hadn't been on death's door, it would have been nicer than a stay at a spa.

My insurance is the military health insurance which pays the same as medicare, and will be merged with Obamacare, and will be what Obamacare will pay once it is in full force.

My bill, well good for me, my copay was, ta da, $30.

But,,,,,,, here is the kicker ..... and my husband and I have seen this over and over and over with our healthcare and feel fortunate that our Doctors and the local fantastic hospital will take our insurance ..........
the bill to the insurance company was around $5K (about $1K per day, which all considering I think is quite reasonable) ..... what did my insurance pay? ....... $600. That's right. About what you would pay to stay in a low end hotel with a free breakfast.

Hospitals will not be able to have any decent level of care with this kind of payment. That's why the horror stories out of England, who has had for years "Obamacare".

What about Doctors? Our payments to Doctors have been as awful as the payments to the hospitals. While we pay very little and are grateful, the Doctors who have overhead expenses (nurses, receptionists, billing specialists) are paid just as horribly by our insurance as the hospitals.

Doctors come out of medical school an average of $250K+ in student debt and don't have the debt paid off until they are 40 normally. So the image of the rich Dr. is just that an image, unless they are a specialist and then not until their late middle age. If all insurance pays Dr.s as little as Obamacare pays now, people will realize that to be a Dr. will mean a lifetime of debt repayment for becoming one.

For those of you who are for it, wait until you are on death's door under it and are left to rot in a bed, or even denied care because you have aged out of being eligible for a life saving procedure, given pain pills and sent home to die. Yes, that is in Obamacare.

I want it repealed and am doing all I can to spread the word. Some aspects are good, I want us to get rid of the monstrosity no one bothered to read all the way through before voting on it. Then put back the "good" parts in small increments that people can read before voting on it.

Have to run errands, back in a few to reply to posters!

You are nothing more than a political shill or a troll, you have, or produce no proof in you post.

Originally posted by Matt93
It's surprising to hear people say doctors arent being paid enough in the US. The problem in Ontario is doctors graduate and head to the US because they get paid more than staying in Ontario. I always curse our system because most people don't have family doctors and those that do have to wait to see them, etc. However, 2 days ago my 3yr old was attacked by a dog and had numerous bites on his face. It took 7 hours from the time we were admitted to the time we were discharged but we don't pay a cent. I don't think any system can be 100%. It is finding a happy medium which could be having 2 systems. The free system for those that don't have insurance and private healthcare for those that can afford to pay.

I thought that Canada has a tiered system? I recall discussing the topic with a colleague who lived in Canada at the time. I asked him since they don't have to pay for your health coverage do they compensate another way. He said that part of his benefits in his company was that they payed for a preferred health care or vip health care type package with less wait time and more accessible doctors. Therefore , I took it as a free system for those that don't have insurance and private vip healthcare for those that can afford to pay as you suggest?

reply to post by HostileApostle


I am an American. I lived in the UK for two years in the mid-1990's at which time my wife became pregnant and we had our first son. The entire pregnancy went through the UK's medical system, but I had top notch supplemental insurance on top of the basic coverage.

I will make this short. The people we dealt with from the local GP to the midwives were great. Up until the actual birth we had no complaints. Then in the hospital we found there was not really a specialist who dealt with the epidurals or pain management. The person that finally did the procedure ended up screwing it up which wasn't realized until my wife was sitting up crying in pain. I finally asked the nurse if she should be able to sit up if she had the epidural, to which she replied "oh, I guess not." Then when she checked the epidural was just resting on the bed and had not been inserted correctly.

Then 12 hours later when the doctor finally arrived at the last minute he declared that my son was coming out breach, which means his butt is coming out first. Now I had been keeping tabs on my sons progress in the womb and I knew he was not in a breach position. I did this by simply feeling my wife's stomach and having some basic knowledge of anatomy. I argued with the doctor, saying he was wrong about the breach position so he decides to reach in and feel around. He again declared that he was toughing my sons butt and was in fact breach. I argued vehemently that I was sure he was wrong, I was certain of this. So he called for a sonogram machine. This took them much too long to find and the first one was not working. Finally he gets a working machine and low and behold he is coming out head first, but is face up. He was nowhere even close to breach. My faith in the doctor is declining.

I won't go into the ugly details, but what followed was horrific to watch. This doctor was in there with forceps and yanking so hard the entire bed was sliding back and forth across the floor. I thought he was going to rip my son's head off. When my son was born he was bruised so badly I thought he was dead or dying.

I felt we could have had better medical care in a third world country, and I had incredibly good supplemental insurance.

A few months later I got into an argument with the GP or primary care doctor asking him why he felt my son should receive vaccinations. After an emotional outburst about herd immunity he finally admitted he had no good argument for getting the vaccine, but that he got a £5,000 ($8,000 US) annual bonus if he vaccinated 94% of the children in his surgery (practice).

Do I want that brand of medicine to come to the USA? No way!

Originally posted by n00bUK
I'm glad my country helps you without checking you;re pockets first for insurance. Yes they may of not left you to die, but you would be chagred and may as well of been dead because you aint able to ever afford that bill.

That is the myth about the American healthcare system and I can tell you from personal experience that it's a fallacy.

I had a life-threatening illness and had to rush to the emergency room. I was told that I would have to stay overnight, which turned into 3 more days. The entire time I was telling them that I was unemployed, had no insurance and would never be able to pay for it, and they kept telling me not to worry about it, and gave me outstanding treatment that saved my life.

The state ended up paying my bill which amounted to about $30,000 because of my unemployment status. I had to jump through some unbelieveable hoops to prove my citizenship and financial situation, but it was eventually sorted out.

Also, I can vouch for the OP's treatment while in the hospital. My stay was exactly the same way, with a full-time nurse, good food when I wanted it, all the needed medication, and test after test to make sure the treatment was correct and effective.

I dread the day that this healthcare system will be turned over to the same people who run the DMV.

reply to post by grandmakdw


Have you ever actually been to the UK and used their healthcare?

Do you know that lots of doctors, like orthopaedic surgeons, for example, average over 400K a year in the US? Hardly pocket change.

Do you think that maybe the issue has more to do with the cost of education in the US (which is ludicrous), than with the "small" salaries doctors make.

Your thread has no proof of anything, except that you're good at regurgitating right-wing talking points.

Originally posted by AntiNWO

Originally posted by n00bUK
I'm glad my country helps you without checking you;re pockets first for insurance. Yes they may of not left you to die, but you would be chagred and may as well of been dead because you aint able to ever afford that bill.

That is the myth about the American healthcare system and I can tell you from personal experience that it's a fallacy.

I had a life-threatening illness and had to rush to the emergency room. I was told that I would have to stay overnight, which turned into 3 more days. The entire time I was telling them that I was unemployed, had no insurance and would never be able to pay for it, and they kept telling me not to worry about it, and gave me outstanding treatment that saved my life.

The state ended up paying my bill which amounted to about $30,000 because of my unemployment status. I had to jump through some unbelieveable hoops to prove my citizenship and financial situation, but it was eventually sorted out.

Also, I can vouch for the OP's treatment while in the hospital. My stay was exactly the same way, with a full-time nurse, good food when I wanted it, all the needed medication, and test after test to make sure the treatment was correct and effective.

I dread the day that this healthcare system will be turned over to the same people who run the DMV.

Yeah but look at your avatar. You're hardly a reasonable person to listen to. You freely admit you robbed your fellow tax payers of thousands of dollars, you think that's fine. At the same time you're scared of the government (the people that made sure your bills were paid for, btw.) and would rather a status quo where you can just rob me when it suits you...

Scaremongering about "socialised medicine". I'm British. The time I had a major eye operation I was treated by the best surgeon in Europe (based on success rate). The team where professional. The waiting period wasn't huge. When ever I need to see a doctor about anything I can and I've not had the impression that they are trying to rush me through or be anything other than professional. I never have to think about if I can afford it when deciding to go to the doctors or not. I'm not going to say it's utopian but overall despite some issues with waiting times for certain operations or treatments I feel confident with the system.

...and I never have to even think about medical insurance. Of course it's paid for through tax. To me it's peace of mind. I know with certainty that if I become ill I don't have to worry about myself or my family.

Total cost to my family for the birth of two kids (one in Ireland, one in England): 0
Total cost of a childbirth in the US: $8000+

pregnancy.about.com...

Ah yes, but the US must be the best place to give birth??

Not close:

www.medicalbillingandcoding.org...

Most of the top 10 countries are European, aside from Japan and Australia. The US is 31st.

31st.

Add to that the huge and growing number of health problems the US has and let's just say, unless I was a multi-millionaire, I wouldn't choose to get sick in the US (I'm an American living abroad).

I have lived in multiple healthcare systems and the US is NOT the best, by far. And it's ludicrously expensive.

Enormous federal programs such as Social Security, Medicare and the recently pass Healthcare Reform. What happened to the enumerated powers?
Not that aid to citizens is wrong but it was never intended to be the role of the federal government.
That's what the 10th amendment was for, reserving all other powers than those enumerated to the federal government for the states.
The states should be providing these programs if they so choose and if they work they will compete with other states for populace and hence power in the House. This is how it was meant to be.

the states are engaging in no competition other than that for federal funds.

reply to post by grandmakdw


I have proof it won't... far better then yours. It's called Canada.

Isn't the Canadian healthcare system proof enough?

Their taxes are outrageous.

Their citizens come here for procedures.

Look at the stats for length of time for simple tests!

Originally posted by SaturnFX

I =wish= there was a universal healthcare move...but the corporatists won. The new corporate morons are now saying healthcare should be only for healthy people of means..so, ya..if the argument is that healthcare should be just for the rich and healthy, then I say go to hell.

Funny thing is, the people supporting that mindset, pretend to be religious. I may be agnostic-atheist, but I know when I see blood sacrificing demon worshippers.

Even I as an atheist knows that Jesus Christ never charged for healthcare, he treated people based on the need for care not just like a universal healthcare system. Oh the hypocriscy of the religious right.

FYI , I'm English live in the UK (Scotland actually where the Tories are prevented from screwing up our NHS !!!) and have never seen anything but excellant healthcare. I have never had a problem with my GP or a hospital. I don't pay for prescriptions. I also know that the highest level of complaint about the NHS from surveys comes from those who have not attended a hospital !!!!! Go figure !!!! Anecdotal, chinese whispers if you ask me.

Sure there are problems. But I can absoluttely guarantee I could find horror stories from every health system from every country round the globe. It only takes ONE to make a headline.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
Yeah but look at your avatar. You're hardly a reasonable person to listen to. You freely admit you robbed your fellow tax payers of thousands of dollars, you think that's fine. At the same time you're scared of the government (the people that made sure your bills were paid for, btw.) and would rather a status quo where you can just rob me when it suits you...

So if I disagree with your messiah's crapping on the U.S. Constitution, then in your eyes my opinion on our current healthcare system is worthless? I'm sure that makes sense to you.

And you're saying that if you pay higher taxes because of Obamacare then you're robbing the taxpayers if you use it? Seems like twisted logic to me, but I would expect nothing less from a liberal.

I "robbed" no one. I already paid into this (state) tax system for this very purpose. There are several points that unsuprisingly went right over your head:

1. I only qualified for this because I was temporarily unemployed and had already paid into it.
2. I am paying into it right at this moment and will be as long as I am employed.
3. I used STATE healthcare system, which cannot be compared to the enormous mess that is Obamacare.
4. Most states have such a plan in place already and thus Obamacare is not even needed.
5. States are many times less bureaucratic than the federal government, meaning cheaper and more efficient.
6. People actually read this bill and knew what was in it before passing it in the state legislature.

Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by SaturnFX

I =wish= there was a universal healthcare move...but the corporatists won. The new corporate morons are now saying healthcare should be only for healthy people of means..so, ya..if the argument is that healthcare should be just for the rich and healthy, then I say go to hell.

Funny thing is, the people supporting that mindset, pretend to be religious. I may be agnostic-atheist, but I know when I see blood sacrificing demon worshippers.

Even I as an atheist knows that Jesus Christ never charged for healthcare, he treated people based on the need for care not just like a universal healthcare system. Oh the hypocriscy of the religious right.

FYI , I'm English live in the UK (Scotland actually where the Tories are prevented from screwing up our NHS !!!) and have never seen anything but excellant healthcare. I have never had a problem with my GP or a hospital. I don't pay for prescriptions. I also know that the highest level of complaint about the NHS from surveys comes from those who have not attended a hospital !!!!! Go figure !!!! Anecdotal, chinese whispers if you ask me.

Sure there are problems. But I can absoluttely guarantee I could find horror stories from every health system from every country round the globe. It only takes ONE to make a headline.

I think many people use religion so they don't have to be a good genuine person actually. God will forgive em, so they can be total arsehats in life.

I am US citizen, but am perm english resident (will probably go back and retire in St. Thomas Islands I think..great place). I have had both hospital experiences. Will say the lack of endless insurance paperwork over there is nice...luckily I have yet to need anything major done in my life..so can't really say where is the best trama care.

So then we definitely can't elect Willard "The Rat" Romney or re-elect Obama!

What are we going to do?