I have proof Obamacare will ruin healthcare in America

What will ruin healthcare in america is when the republicans refuse to tax the wealthy and they will be the only ones to be able to have healthcare !

Originally posted by SaturnFX

I would hate to work for a company like that.

I used to like working there. But that was under the founders son who understood that taking care of his employees resulted in a better product. Vested after three years, Great insurance, Matching 401 and Profit sharing. Then 9/11 happened and I was laid off due to slow sales. [Snip happens] but it was all for the better.

Then the Grandson took over and while they have expanded, those I know that still work there are unhappy and have told me to never buy the product as it has dropped from the quality product that they used to produce. Oh and they do none of the above anymore.

$300.00+ for a blender....really!?

It seems to me, that most of you are missing a key point in all of this.

Myself and many many other Americans, almost half in fact, can't afford health insurance anyways, as we are close to the poverty level, you know where we can barely afford a roof and food every week.

I have never had insurance except when I was in the military, as next to no employers offer it, and those that do only offer plans that are so expensive with such high copays, that it isn't worth havving to begin with.

Why would I pay insurance every week out of pocket, when I will be filling bankruptcy if I have to go to the hospital no matter what? It makes no sense at all.

Now under Obamacare, I will have to pay a fine( oh sorry I meant a tax, that only applies to the poor, as we are the ones that can't afford health insurance anyways).

The only other option is to stand in line for days f lost work income ( we can't afford) and allow the .gov access to all our finacial records and be all up in my personal business all the time. Which is also not an option, as I will do neither.
I will simply stop payhing taxes and work for cash under the table, so they can't steal my tax check to force me to pay the fine for being poor.

This entire system is stupid and worthless, it is a obvious attempt to force more of us onto the .gov doles so they invade our personal privvacy, this will only help .5% of the populous in any way.

As most of us, don't have preexisting conditions. This is an obvious attempt to funamentally change our society to a more nanny state EU style society.

All health care could be easily more affordable by simply putting limits on the amount of money that could be spent by pharmo companies on advertising to try and push their new unnecessary drugs. The cost of all prescriptions would drop overnight.

Next reduce the amount allowed to be spent on research, as all the billins spent over the last 20 hears have yet to yield a single "cure" for anything, mostly they are just "newer" more dangerous forms f existing medicines.

Finally, force colleges to stop charging so much, there is no reason a doctor should have to be in debt until their 40s. It is waste, so the worthless pecil pushers can continue making 6 figure incomes and higher for playing on the net and gosipping around the water cooler all day. There are very few office jobs that require actual full time personel, most can be done on a part time basis at a fraction of the price.

The actual workers producing should get the lions share of pay from a business, not the dead weight, wasting company time, getting cadillac insurance plans, company cars, high bonuses, and great salaries. They produce nothing, but added cost to businesses, they are one of the problems.

Love the fearmongering, soooo GOP.

Funny thing is "Obamacare" -is- the plan the GOP floated for many, many years...until Obama wanted to do it and then it was evil incarnate.

Tastey, tastey irony.

Anyway my healthcare costs have been skyrocketing for years with no changes in my health (in fact I am in the best shape of my life). When I started at my company I used to get money -back- in each check for the coverage I had, now with basically the same coverage I pay a nice chunk of change every check.

So I'm sorry OP, your words fall on deaf ears as far as I'm concerned, "Obamacare" is a tiny step forward in the right direction for American healthcare and we still have a long way to go. You can blast the healthcare of foreign lands as much as you like, thing is you can find more horror stories here in the good old U.S.A. if you but bother to lift a finger and google for something other than your worldview.

reply to post by thetiler


What exactly makes you belikeve the "rich" are not paying their fair share? Most are already paying a 40% rate or higher, litterally hlf their incomes, if this is not a fair share I don't know what is.

I believe your deffinition of fair share would be closer to saying" if they make more than $250,000 a year every dime over that should be taken by the .gov.".

Which is what it seems to me is meant by this comment. I wouldn't disagree, as I believe that $250,000 should be more than enough for anyone to survive on, but I don't believe the .gov should get it so they can waste it on more weapons we don't need and more wars we don't want.

I believe it should be mandatorily used to pay their workers better, as they are the ones "making" the money, not the owners sitting on the their butts, playing on their computers, and talking on their phones.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by TDawgRex
They recently had a banner declaring themselves to be a nicotine free workplace.

Thats a dumb statement. Do they have patch checking right before work?
Nicotine isn't that bad for you..not really..about as bad as caffine. The electronic ciggies are becoming big now, and many smokers are switching or hybrid'ing over to that, and again, its about as unhealthy for you as drinking a soda or cup of coffee.

They should swap out the banner to replace nicotine to tobacco...or someone should also suggest they ban caffine also considering its pretty much equal.

Off topic, but there are increasingly more businesses in Texas that are not only "smoke free" as in you can't smoke there, but "smoke free" as you can't smoke and be employed there. I don't know how they police it, but they exist for sure.

I now know why patients die of hunger and thirst in socialist hospitals, (google the state of healthcare in UK/England); why they have bedsores; why they die from neglect.

Good thing Obamacare is nothing like socialized medicine....
Or do you listen to everything Fox News tells you?

Obamacare is NOT socialized medicine in the least.
Why can't people get that?

Doctors come out of medical school an average of $250K+ in student debt and don't have the debt paid off until they are 40 normally. So the image of the rich Dr. is just that an image,

Doctors normally still make $100k+ each year, while paying off their debt.

Originally posted by 3chainz
Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare, it has to

do with PRIVATE insurance.

All it does is force people to purchase private insurance or pay a tax. It is the same system that Romney passed in Massachusetts.

How can you be so misinformed still?

edit on 16-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)

it doesn't matter what the truth is....it's the sound bite that can be easily remembered...they need catchy slogans that bypass any type of research. these negative slogans are said over and over, and thus easily repeated to express a negative feeling about a candidate. i just call it standard lazy politcal crap

I'd like to think the thing that ruins America is either of them.

Republican > Romney will only continue to endorse businesses and support the rich while focusing on how to make more money which will continue to move the American corporate Machine

[ Click ]

Fascist Dictator > Obama will do what all dictators do, remove everyone's means of defending themselves and then activate the fema camps & create a civil war while he is at it. [ Think of it as a Modern day North vs South ]

[ Click ]

Maybe Ron Paul would actually stop and refuse all the damage that is being done and perhaps evade the incoming storm

[ Click ]

But then again I'm Australian, so I have to worry about a Communistic-fascist known as Julia.

reply to post by Ghost375

Doctors are generally in their mid 20's when they "finish" medical school, only to have to go into residency for several years where they are paid quite poorly, especially for the hours they put in. Then they have the startup debt of a new or purchased practice, or not so great pay as a contract physician until they can afford better, Meanwhile, they are paying on their debt through residency and early practice. They don't really make money until their mid 30's while they are still paying off a huge school debt. The payments on the current average of $156,000 are not chump change even if you earn $100K, and have the startup costs of a new mortgage and car payments. Doctors are not as well off as you think.
(yes this debt amount is a readjustment of my first post, but my first post was accurate because they generally accrue and extra $100K of interest during residency; and keep in mind their average payment on that is $3300+ per month) That means while they may be making $100K after expenses at first they are paying an average of $40K per year on their student loans, leaving them $60K to live on.

Most college grads complain bitterly about paying off their average $25,000 debt. Imagine, a grand total of 10x that.

"Obamacare" going into effect means they will be making far less due to more people using the "obamacare" insurance that pays peanuts; and therefore probably in debt for medical school until they retire. Who wants that job?

The average medical school debt today, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges is $156,456. I can only wish that was true for me. Perhaps the best way to understand the burden of a current medical student’s debt is by example. Here is an approximation of my real-life medical school debt assuming I select forbearance during residency and repay the loan over 15 years:
Annual cost of tuition: $48,000
Annual cost of attendance: $67,500 (Includes costs of books/supplies, loan fees, health insurance, licensure fees, living expenses, and transportation allowance)
Total balance after medical school: $270,000
Amount subsidized: $34,000
Amount unsubsidized: $236,000
Interest incurred during 3 years of residency: $100,000 Total balance after residency:

$370,000 Monthly payment after residency: $3,370 (180 total payments)

Interest incurred after residency: $237,000 Total repayment: $607,000

from www.kevinmd.com...

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by HostileApostle

 

In Obamacare, there IS a provision for a panel to decide on how to "ration" healthcare.

They will decide if someone over a certain age should or should not receive a lifesaving treatment. That edict will apply to everyone on government insurance regardless of general health or mental status.

Obama himself said it is better to let an old person die with pain meds than to get expensive treatment that might let them live a few more healthy years. He said this on the campaign trail in 2008, and you bet it will be policy in Obamacare.

You have proof? Links to the actual documents? Video of Obama saying this?

Here it is:

youtu.be...

Originally posted by grandmakdw

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by HostileApostle

 

In Obamacare, there IS a provision for a panel to decide on how to "ration" healthcare.

They will decide if someone over a certain age should or should not receive a lifesaving treatment. That edict will apply to everyone on government insurance regardless of general health or mental status.

Obama himself said it is better to let an old person die with pain meds than to get expensive treatment that might let them live a few more healthy years. He said this on the campaign trail in 2008, and you bet it will be policy in Obamacare.

You have proof? Links to the actual documents? Video of Obama saying this?

Here it is:

youtu.be...

No, you're putting words into his mouth. He said that his hope with the new system is to reduce the overall cost of the system by reducing waste, and maybe part of that reduction will be identifying processes that aren't currently working to improve a person.

Death will happen to us all eventually. However, if we have enough resources invested into science, medical and technology advancements, it's very likely that most of us will live 100+ years via a socialized system.

reply to post by grandmakdw


What are the odds of survival for a person of 99 years undergoing surgery to insert a pacemaker? As was apparent in the clip you posted, the heart specialist was very hesitant to do it. How many insurance companies currently agree to pre-authorize heart surgery for a 99 year old person? I would suggest that what you claim to be coming, has always been the norm, unless you are wealthy enough to pay for whatever treatment you wish...

reply to post by grandmakdw
Military insurance sucks! I've had to pay several thousand dollars out of pocket to civilian doctors because the incompetent military provider wouldn't refer me for diagnostic testing. And because I am a soldier, I don't have the luxury of using a private hospital. We active duty soldiers have very little control over which provider they have to use. The diagnostic testing my civilian doctor ordered conclusively proved that I have nerve damage in three of four limbs and Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Diesease.

A friend of mine, who had severe sleep apnea, and was trying to get treatment through the same incompetent provider; died in his sleep a few months back.

Another friend, a former chaplain's assistant, went in for severe fatigue. The same incompetent ass decided he was a drug abuser because he had bloodshot eyes and forced him to be tested for drugs. Not only was his urine sample negative; but that next weekend his wife dragged him to a civilian emergency room and he tested positive for mono.

Glad you got the four star treatment "at a spa-like setting" but as far as I'm concerned you can take military health care and shove it up your @#$%%!

Obamacare? Wish to God I had it.

private healthcare is the reason americas healthcare program is the crappiest of the western world.

you complain doctors don't get paid squat. it's not obama care. its the greedy medical corporation that owns the hospital.

you were razzled and dazzled because they brought you food and filled a water jug.

is that the standard you use for world class healthcare.

quality of care isn't determined by whose buck it is.

it is determined by the professionalism and standards of the administrators, doctors, staff and financiers.

you judge "socialist" healthcare in other countries without going to one.

its just as good if not better than american healthcare. without costing you a dime out of pocket.

and the reason its good is because the politicians who run it are also the ones who use it.
so unless they want to shell out hundred of thousands of dollars to get breakfast in bed in america, they make sure the country's hospitals are up to par.

barring that, if the healthcare or infrastructure starts to slack, they can quickly find themselves out of office because the people will hold them accountable.

Originally posted by thetiler
What will ruin healthcare in america is when the republicans refuse to tax the wealthy and they will be the only ones to be able to have healthcare !

WAKE UP! You can tax everyone who makes over 250k 100% of their income and it won't run the government for 3 months. The answer is less spending, less bureaucracy, less government employees, less federal wages, smaller government. It is NOT the government's job to provide for you food, a home, health care, or a cell phone!

I have proof end of life care will bankrupt 98% of all Americans!

reply to post by grandmakdw


The military is the most SOCIALIST institution in America. Free meals (mess hall), free work clothes (uniforms), free medical care (tri-care), free housing (base housing), discounted food/tv's luxuary items (the Base Exchange). They even have their own gas stations with discounted gas.

There is a reason I see so many brand new trucks/SUV's on base. For most of these kiddos, it's the most money they've ever made, without having to spend hardly anything out of pocket.

Don't even get me started on the Star Card program.

I know of lots of people stationed where I live that NEVER leave the base once in their tour here.

Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're voting for Romney and are in the military -- you are in direct contradiction to the lifestyle you are living in.

I also know quite a few military people that have no clue how to function in the civilian world (ie; be responsible and pay a mortgage, car payment, health insurance premiums and co pays) because they are so sheltered and protected by the military. I will admit, most of them are enlisted with just a GED or H.S. diploma and not CO's, and pop out little hell-spawn at an alarming rate and expect me to pay for them.

Edit to add: It's one of the most bizzare, fake/phoney feeling "want to be middle class" experiences visiting a large military base. Most of the people living there would be below the poverty line, working at Wal-Mart and on food stamps if it wasn't for the military. I also happen to know a few people that got out, and ta-da their "job training" didn't ammount to squat. So guess where they are working now, and quess what happened to that nice new Chevy Silvarado with the lift kit and that 65" tv?

And the GOP wants to talk about a welfare state? Don't make me laugh...



Back on topic:

If Tricare is so great, why can't we just expand it to cover everyone? I've had expensive medical treatment in the oldest hospital in Paris, France. CT scans to boot. Was I made to wait hours? Nope, seen as soon as I got there. Was I billed? Nope, they waved their hands at my private insurance card. I was even given a perscription and my CT film to take back to the USA.

reply to post by jjkenobi


An entitlement is a return of funds a person pays in his entire life! If I pay in to SS for 60 years I do expect it back!

We have tools to combat poverty not because it is the humane thing to do , but rather because it maintains a standard of living for us all. Tent cities like those seen in Lagos are to expected without the welfare systems we have! You want that? I say move to Africa!

I would rather see a family fed vs. a cluster bomb dropped any day of the week.

reply to post by Rastus3663


I was not at a military hospital. I have been in those a few times. Like when my youngest was born and I shared a room with about 10 other women and corpsmen with 3 months training would come around checking our post partum bleeding.

The great hospital I was at was a civilian one that fortunately takes tricare.

The military health care you described is what we will all have once the legislation takes effect, after the election of course.