Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs

I was searching online for Rosicrusian+Hynek, and ended up here!

This morning I was just reading Meade Layne talking about Etherian ships and their inhabitants who could become solid or intangible at will. Forty years later, Dr. Hynek was speculating almost the same thing.

I'd thought Hynek embracing an interdimesional origin of UFOs came chiefly from the frustrating lack of physical evidence, along with the bad influence of Vallee. Maybe with his Rosicrusian roots, he had a predisposition for non-material answers all along.

a reply to: The GUT

I think Hynek alternative view was strongly influenced by reading of

Operation Trojan Horse (book)

en.wikipedia.org...(book)

Operation Trojan Horse (or UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse) is a book published in 1970 by John Keel.[1] The book was reprinted in 1996 with minor additions. It presents the results of Keel's research on UFOs and similar phenomena.

Keel, who died in 2009, was an influential ufologist. According to The Daily Telegraph, "In his much-acclaimed second book, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, Keel suggested that many aspects of modern UFO reports, including humanoid encounters, often paralleled ancient folklore and religious visions, and directly linked UFOs with elemental phenomena."[2]

The book, the result of four years of research and interviews with thousands of individuals, presents Keel's theory that UFOs are a phenomenon produced by "ultraterrestrials", beings who are able to manipulate matter and our senses, and who in the past manifested themselves as fairies, demons, and so on.

Keel explains the title of the book saying, "Our skies have been filled with 'Trojan horses' throughout history, and like the original Trojan horse, they seem to conceal hostile intent."

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
a reply to: The GUT

I think Hynek alternative view was strongly influenced by reading of

Operation Trojan Horse (book)

en.wikipedia.org...(book)

Operation Trojan Horse (or UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse) is a book published in 1970 by John Keel.[1] The book was reprinted in 1996 with minor additions. It presents the results of Keel's research on UFOs and similar phenomena.

Keel, who died in 2009, was an influential ufologist. According to The Daily Telegraph, "In his much-acclaimed second book, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, Keel suggested that many aspects of modern UFO reports, including humanoid encounters, often paralleled ancient folklore and religious visions, and directly linked UFOs with elemental phenomena."[2]

The book, the result of four years of research and interviews with thousands of individuals, presents Keel's theory that UFOs are a phenomenon produced by "ultraterrestrials", beings who are able to manipulate matter and our senses, and who in the past manifested themselves as fairies, demons, and so on.

Keel explains the title of the book saying, "Our skies have been filled with 'Trojan horses' throughout history, and like the original Trojan horse, they seem to conceal hostile intent."

www.amazon.com...

Trojan horse, Keel's book, is excellent I just finished it a month ago.

It goes into more arcane possibilities than the usual physical material UFO and speculates about inter-dimensional possibilities.

Here he reveals that most UFO'S incredibly enough are seen on Wednesdays.

What that means I don’t know.
Maybe the Aliens like their weekends free

Keel was a very interesting researcher and very successful in a sense.
Interesting how he seemed to be able to look into the UFO phenomenon with his own resources.

originally posted by: CardDown
I'd thought Hynek embracing an interdimesional origin of UFOs came chiefly from the frustrating lack of physical evidence, along with the bad influence of Vallee. Maybe with his Rosicrusian roots, he had a predisposition for non-material answers all along.

Yeah, I raised that question here as it's a very good one. The obverse is also a good question: Did Hynek's facility for hermeticism--when united to his broad Astronomy and UFO experience--give him a somewhat clearer picture of possibilities that seemed to not only fit the phenomena better, but has a longer tradition and rather extensive "documentation" as well?

a reply to: The GUT

Howdy GUT, and a very Happy New Year to you indeed. Without wanting to sound like a gushing acolyte, yet another fine thread - measured and with just enough hints to set us on another quest for that elusive Holy Grail of 'TRUE' Ufology...

When I read the Forbidden Science volumes, I was also struck by what seemed to be a tremendous wash of history being played out, with old romantic Vallee interpreting the eddies & swirls of what was going on around him at the time. Agreed, a grand vista and a fascinating era, hopefully one that will come out from the shadow of the aviary types and into the mind of the people at some point soon.

I must have forgotten about the good lady Izzatt, but I appreciate the reminder, and I feel I will be checking out that rather wonderful seeming film. As I write, a nice song cropped up on my Spotify playlist, and it seems to epitomize the mysterious and hauntingly beautiful quest for truth in a seemingly paradoxical age of progress, heartbreak and chaos.

I embed it here for you, knowing not your musical taste, though I highly recommend the band - they are VERY open minded about these sorts of things, very specifically noting all sorts of woo in their poetical lyrics. I present Turin Brakes, with the title track of their newest album, 'We Were Here'...






Hoping the embed worked, fingers crossed...

a reply to: The GUT

NB - the experience of Rosicrucian Imperator H. Spencer Lewis intrigues me, and I will be interested to look into that episode a bit more. I really dislike Crowley and all he stood for, in the 'gut' of my intuition (no pun intended!) - but I am fascinated by the workers on the right-hand path, and am always a little too curious regarding magical matters, especially how we can begin to correlate the seeming reality of such 'localised' forces, within the grand vastness of the Cosmos beyond our porch, so to speak.

Someone once said to me: "All you need, son, is music & the Moon". I respect the man a lot; he's a traditional stoic in terms of his guiding philosophy - very respectful of others no matter their beliefs, he shared a wonderful & loving marriage with a devout Christian lady for over fifty years until her recent passing, whilst himself remaining a steadfast 'atheist' (though I suspect he was rather kidding us on a little with that, he seemed to know a thing or two, if you see my meaning..)

Curiosity may have killed the cat, but as far as I know, it never killed a Fly.

a reply to: The Shrike

How about discussing what we are really experiencing that no one can explain no matter what group they belong, no matter what rituals are performed, no matter what symbols are alleged to, etc.

Erm... Check out the signature threads of Monsieur GUT. I think he's already done an excellent job of investigating what's really going on. Hardware alone doesn't cut it when you consider the weighted testimonies of the various persons around the world reporting a variety of extremely weird, as well as conventional, UFO phenomena.

In fact, in the OP, a quote from Hynek explicitly states that one, both, or neither theory (EDI/ETI) may be responsible for what we are collectively encountering. He asks for theories to quantitatively account for what people are reporting.

The Control System theory, whilst currently incomplete, and incredibly frustrating in places, is the best bet.

Stop whaling on the thread when you clearly don't understand the realities involved. Seriously, uncool.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Interesting you mention music.

Music is very rudimentary spiritual: Rhythm, Harmony and Melody are the root of a lot of vibrational energy fluctuations that have an enormous affect on spirit and phenomenon.

I always wondered what aliens think of music…Considering the slapstick alien yarn Mars Attacks where you had the country music saving the day because it had a tremendous negative effect on them when they had the upper hand and were ready to gobble up the human race.


I imagine the message there may be:
Keep the spirit close by when they reveal themselves cause that may be all we have in the end

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: The GUT

NB - the experience of Rosicrucian Imperator H. Spencer Lewis intrigues me, and I will be interested to look into that episode a bit more. I really dislike Crowley and all he stood for, in the 'gut' of my intuition (no pun intended!) - but I am fascinated by the workers on the right-hand path, and am always a little too curious regarding magical matters, especially how we can begin to correlate the seeming reality of such 'localised' forces, within the grand vastness of the Cosmos beyond our porch, so to speak.

Someone once said to me: "All you need, son, is music & the Moon". I respect the man a lot; he's a traditional stoic in terms of his guiding philosophy - very respectful of others no matter their beliefs, he shared a wonderful & loving marriage with a devout Christian lady for over fifty years until her recent passing, whilst himself remaining a steadfast 'atheist' (though I suspect he was rather kidding us on a little with that, he seemed to know a thing or two, if you see my meaning..)

Curiosity may have killed the cat, but as far as I know, it never killed a Fly.

Wonderful post and, yes, we are very simpatico my friend. Good to interact with you again. Getting back on subject, YES, I too so want more details on Imperator H. Spencer Lewis and that reportedly ominous battle in the circle. Seems somewhat of a dead end the way it's related by Doc Jock, but maybe he found out a bit more and might answer an email?

Maybe someone else has written about it? I did some basic search when I first read it and turned up nothing, but I didn't dig. Maybe some that read this might help us research that tidbit.

Bro hug and very warm wishes for you and yours my friend.

It is strange to think that Jack Parsons (of JPL fame) and Wernher Von Braun (of V2/NASA infamy) were more than familiar with Rosicrucian/Hermetic teachings via Parsons Church of Thelema links and Brauns Thule Society exposure.

I had a quick dig into where the Hermetic/Occult knowledge allegedly came from and it seems it goes hand in hand with today's incarnation of civilization (Knowledge=power dictatorships) all the way back to the Egyptian mystery schools and the Sumerians and their "fishy" advisors.



Hiding knowledge for the enlightened to decrypt/decipher/decode themselves seems to be the overarching theme and it struck me that there are lots of examples of "hidden knowledge" dotted throughout teachings of lots of old "religions" that were seemingly just waiting for people to explore ( Manichaeism is a good one that I'd never heard of till recently.)

Samkhya/Sankhya has a massive dose of "Quantum" Physics theory (using today's definition) and it seems especially worthy of a mention given the recent findings regarding the uncertainty principle Quantum Physics just got easier- which Samkhya hammered home loudly - over 4000 years ago!

It makes you wonder what effect (even subconsciously) a teaching such as Samkhya might have on someone like De Broglie during their career and whether (in our alternate universe of a Samkhya conditioned/aware De-Brogile) we would be further ahead in understanding Quantum Physics than we are now?[

a reply to: The GUT

Just a fast question;

Just how can something descended from and so intimately related to the Rose and the Cross be any sort of "ism"?

This makes the second of your "posts" that cause me to question your level of understanding...

a reply to: The GUT

You're too kind Sir, best wishes back at 'ya.. I actually came back onto the thread to 'fess up that I'd only just clicked this was a relatively old thread, and to apologise to the Shrike for complaining that he had neglected to review your signature threads - quite harsh of me considering that when he made his stomping complaints, said threads weren't in existence yet... They set the standard in my book, in terms of where to begin unravelling the mysteries of the egg-hunt.

Note that Mork arrived in Hollywood (from deep space) in an egg...
Shortly after these initial enquiries & discussions were unfolding?!



PS - Aime Michel must have been a wonderful chap to know; when I read of Valle and his contemporaries, I get a deep yearning to go back in time to my youth, slap myself in the head and shout: "Go study at university you idiot, so you can do something useful, and even have intellectually stimulating discussion on all manner of topics with people senior in their fields and genii in their own right!!!!" But then I realise that at the moment, such travel is impossible, and 2015 will have to do as a starting point.

Jaques referred to Anton more than once as "The old Carnie", as in a deliberate showman rather than anything too sinister. I felt on reading his memoirs that he was quite keen for people to 'get the right impression' of the man. It's highly curious when you start pinning the threads between the various people involved in the 'Earth' space project (Jack Parsons et al) and those inquiring regarding the 'Non-Earth' space project. There is an unusual amount of occult involvement & cross-connections between the players, whether wilful and 'irrational/negative' or incidental, cynical/comedic & 'rational/positive'... I've started to realise just how endemic occult orders are in our Western world though, so perhaps it's not too much of a stretch to say that it was a roll of the dice as to where the various lines were drawn.

I'm going to have a wander down Rosicrucian Lane, and see what I can see, and will report back post-haste.

Catch up soon,


FITO.

PS - I'll be replying to WillTell soon, had a few thoughts but need to drive to the shops briefly.



PPS - the last guy/gal to reply in thread... WTF? You should do a bit of background checking before slating reputable members.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: The GUT


PPS - the last guy/gal to reply in thread... WTF? You should do a bit of background checking before slating reputable members.

Guy...

Actually sir;

I'm an Electrical Engineer and occultist with over 40 years of each.

I have studied the paths and teaching of the RoseCross, and of course know a wee bit about electromagnetism.

And, unfortunately, "reputable" has little to do with actually "knowing" hidden teachings. The teachings of the Rosicrucians is currently, as it has always been, "hidden" for the most part from public view.

If you want to "wander" down Rosicrucian lane, I could suggest a place to start; but be aware that "wander" could take decades.

Simply put; One can not "wander" down an Occult Lane and actually get anywhere. The knowledge must be gained in the proper method and sequence, otherwise it doesn't really make much sense. And then of course, One Must be "ready".

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: The GUT


PPS - the last guy/gal to reply in thread... WTF? You should do a bit of background checking before slating reputable members.

Guy...

Actually sir;

I'm an Electrical Engineer and occultist with over 40 years of each.

I have studied the paths and teaching of the RoseCross, and of course know a wee bit about electromagnetism.

And, unfortunately, "reputable" has little to do with actually "knowing" hidden teachings. The teachings of the Rosicrucians is currently, as it has always been, "hidden" for the most part from public view.

If you want to "wander" down Rosicrucian lane, I could suggest a place to start; but be aware that "wander" could take decades.

Simply put; One can not "wander" down an Occult Lane and actually get anywhere. The knowledge must be gained in the proper method and sequence, otherwise it doesn't really make much sense. And then of course, One Must be "ready".

Sounds scary.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: The GUT


PPS - the last guy/gal to reply in thread... WTF? You should do a bit of background checking before slating reputable members.

Guy...

Actually sir;

I'm an Electrical Engineer and occultist with over 40 years of each.

I have studied the paths and teaching of the RoseCross, and of course know a wee bit about electromagnetism.

And, unfortunately, "reputable" has little to do with actually "knowing" hidden teachings. The teachings of the Rosicrucians is currently, as it has always been, "hidden" for the most part from public view.

If you want to "wander" down Rosicrucian lane, I could suggest a place to start; but be aware that "wander" could take decades.

Simply put; One can not "wander" down an Occult Lane and actually get anywhere. The knowledge must be gained in the proper method and sequence, otherwise it doesn't really make much sense. And then of course, One Must be "ready".

Consider the context. People say things non technical often and against anything technical may sound dissonant.

Your point that there is a time and place for anything is well taken

Mr Gut is the magnetic pole of this knowledge in the context of this subject
Hang around and you’ll see or feel for yourself. I assume you know what I mean...

BTW I aught to know since Ive been into this stuff for 45 years

a reply to: tanka418

I don't profess to speak for Fly, But I'm pretty sure he just meant take a gander at what y'all think you know and are personally "ready" for. And, of course, glean any wisdom that might actually be present and harmless. I, and I bet, Fly, know you're just about as confused as the next guy of which I'm just a "next guy" too.

I'm always interested to see what ancient recurring entities (whether subconscious common animal instincts or actual Daemons of some sort) seem to be pulling the various "schools" strings when it comes to occultism. I think Manly Hall described what black magick and such really is: Depth psychology/sociology, science both weird and staright, and selfishness basically. Nothing very magical in the wondrous sense and the pitiful downfall of many of its adherents.

I for one, will pass on your offer as self-promoted wise guide to the rosy cross, but thanks for playing.

I will say that it was a brilliant but pretty crazy Rosicrucian cat who first clued me in that there were actually some true conspiracies of momentus nature going on around us. I would also note that I am all for spirituality and I learn much from my friends of many faiths and practices, but I certainly have no gurus.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: The GUT

PS - Aime Michel must have been a wonderful chap to know; when I read of Valle and his contemporaries, I get a deep yearning to go back in time to my youth, slap myself in the head and shout: "Go study at university you idiot, so you can do something useful, and even have intellectually stimulating discussion on all manner of topics with people senior in their fields and genii in their own right!!!!" But then I realise that at the moment, such travel is impossible, and 2015 will have to do as a starting point.

How much of Michel was addressed in Forbidden Science, Volume I? I really need to get around to reading it. Another interesting gentleman of the occult persuasion that Vallee seemed to have much respect for was French Resistance fighter, philosopher, author, occultist Jacques Bergier who you've probably come across.

Normally, I'd link all that stuff, but I'm stealing a few quick moments here to answer because I'm glad you've joined the conversation. I wish there had been more here, but I know I'll have some fun digging with you and Will. 1o9 will probably get active with us. And once I understand what the heck tanka is talking abouit, maybe we'll enjoy digging with him/her, too.

a reply to: The GUT

You should maybe be looking into creating a thread on what Peter Levenda refers to as 'Political Witchcraft', and he'd know due to his involvement with Right wing Nationalist groups in his early years, the production of the Necronomicon to pull the rug from under the Judeo-Christian date wise, as he notes the first esoteric magical tradition in modern times to do so.

A lot of what goes on is little more than niche marketing, for the conformist the Masonic tradition ensures that all roads led back to Solomon's Temple, for the non-conformist there was always the Beast and Baabalon, Angels or Nephilim all still the same narrative and an extension of Jewish interests, so the other side tries to herd people in the general direction of India and the mysteries of the East as an extension of Indo-European interests.

On the one hand you have the promotion of an evil alien agenda, abductions and improprieties and suggested spiritual agenda behind such were salvation is only through the Bible and the military means to defeat any possible evil invaders and on the other traditions of positive contact, in all of this the extra-terrestrials themselves are simply the ball in play, and at some point that ball may begin to glow brightly and take an abrupt 90 degree turn accelerating sharply ...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Brilliant. Bravo. Manly would've enjoyed your mind, too, my dear. Yes indeed, to the point and wickedly witty.

Levenda was also apparently hanging out with Aquino last year. He's a pretty talented dude, and I'm curious if he had connections with Kenneth Grant. The anthropologies of Keel by Andy Colvin are really worth picking up too. Keel thought Phillip K Dick was screwing around with the occult prior to his experiences as well*. Nick Redfern, from what I can gather from his fun accounts of monster hunting, has some knowledge of chaos magic and Goetic invocation.

Incidentally the occult stuff I picked up from this stuff enabled me to do extremely well in a class on medieval magic. Prof loved me.

*Indeed there is a recurring theme of dissociative drug use going on too. Kit Green observed a group using what I think is nitrous oxide in a ceremony, and John Lilly was dicking around with ketamine. The early psi drug research seemed to center around Muscimol...