Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond strike referendum deal

Scottish independence: Salmond denies lying over EU advice

donno how I missed that one yesterday

"He even went to court to prevent that advice from being published and he told the Scottish Parliament that he couldn't reveal it because the rules wouldn't let him.

"We find out today that despite desperate claims of knowing the answer, despite thousands of taxpayers money spent on court action to keep information from the Scottish people, the SNP has never taken advice on a separate Scotland's place in the European Union."

"The SNP Government began legal proceedings over a document that didn't even exist, the public will rightly be infuriated that thousands of pounds of their money was spent funding an SNP orchestrated farce."

"The Scottish government has previously cited opinions from a number of eminent legal authorities, past and present, in support of its view that an independent Scotland will continue in membership of the European Union - but has not sought specific legal advice.

So I guess that means when he stated Scotland would be a successor state in the EU... he wasn't telling the truth. They will need apply like everyone else.

reply to post by tdk84


I think everyone apart from Salmond's most die hard supporters knew that Scotland would have to apply for EU membership just like any other nation wishing to join it.

Whilst it comes as no surprise to most of us, the important thing is that Salmond has been shown to be just as deceitful, arrogant and self-serving as the vast majority of politicians by deliberately lying to and misleading the Scottish people and then compunding this by wasting thousands of taxpayers money in trying to cover up his lying using the well used phrase 'national security' to justify his suppression of lawful investigations into his claims.

I am more than aware that a vote for independance is NOT a vote for the SNP but to many Alex Salmond is the embodiment of Scottish independance.

Once an independant Scotland goes through a period of being a completely unaligned nation - free from the shackles of enforced bondage to the UK and not yet a member of the EU - upon gaining memebership of the EU Scotland can look forward to the delights of having it's fiscal, economic and budgetary policies dictated to by Brussels and having no say on immigration policy and many other domestic issues.

It seems that an independant Scotland under SNP governance would be at least as secretive, dismissive and amoral as the one in control today.
And it will have a damn sight less say and control over it's own matters than it does now through The Scottish Parliament.

Alex Salmond could yet prove to be the best possible advertisement and case for the NO vote there could possibly be - perhaps this has been the intention all along?

and to add to that Scotland is putting much emphasis on black gold

The UK does have plenty of international political clout at a time when Brussels has indicated a willingness to try to seize control of the health and safety regime offshore.

would and independent Scotland, more wasted £££

The point? Brussels will want to push a lot of things, and just like the need to join NATO & the EU, Scotland will have to follow. United we have a lot more political clout to tell them where to shove it.

reply to post by tdk84


thing im now wondering is , if this all just a big set up by some EU move to put pressure on the UK government to force a referendum on independence , so that it makes it easier for the EU to swallow the UK !

Originally posted by tdk84
and to add to that Scotland is putting much emphasis on black gold

The UK does have plenty of international political clout at a time when Brussels has indicated a willingness to try to seize control of the health and safety regime offshore.

would and independent Scotland, more wasted £££

The point? Brussels will want to push a lot of things, and just like the need to join NATO & the EU, Scotland will have to follow. United we have a lot more political clout to tell them where to shove it.

edit on 24-10-2012 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

I disagree I think alone we actually have a somewhat stronger voice, one which a lot of people will be interested in hearing, rather than the hum-drum monotonous nonsense given us daily by the current UK 'elected' government, which I'm sure we will agree that we are quite sick of hearing by now.

I disagree I think alone we actually have a somewhat stronger voice, one which a lot of people will be interested in hearing, rather than the hum-drum monotonous nonsense given us daily by the current UK 'elected' government, which I'm sure we will agree that we are quite sick of hearing by now.

sorry, I didn't mean us the voters. Politicians will be politicians but at the end of the day they will usually stick with what's best for the UK as its obviously advantageous for themselves. A divided UK wont have the same clout as a United one. Pushed around by Brussels etc.

A independent Scotland will be worse, nothing will change when it comes to whos in charge, just look at the recent revelations about NATO and the EU. What will change for an independent Scotland is international political clout i.e. having no choice but to follow certain expectations in order to keep relations.

Scottish independence: MPs call for nuclear weapon deal

I'd place a bet they will change their mind on Clyde too. Its a necessity and are bound to be given a lucrative deal since it would save money over a relocation.

The tories are up for it , the conservative party has done nothing but rape and sell England in its history as a political party.

David cameron , in the real world , would have been thrown out of government as soon as he tried to sell the port of dover for £10 million ....... it has a turn over of £58 million a year and is a HUGE part of Britain .

Traitorous dogs , the sooner the tories cease to exist the better.

Naughty Salmond! Polic e investigate Salmond comments

Two camps of thought on this. The first (of which i am 90% in) is "what a load of nonsense". Story for the sake of it, added to our seemingly new attitudes of being offended by everything we see, hear or do.

That 10% of me though does find it rather amusing that a politician who has made a career out of portraying the Scots as being smeared endlessly falls into the same thing himself. Obviously, these investigations will probably be dismissed as more evil Westminster attempts to influence the Scottish voter (as opposed to a self serving politician catching himself out).

reply to post by Flavian


A strange one.

Quite frankly I think it's pathetic.......but......imagine the self-righteous outrage from Salmond and his cronies if an English politician had made some sort of generalised, stereotyped quip at Salmond and his cronies.

And it's so typical of many Scottish nationalists - expressing disgust at any expression of English nationalism and the perceived arrogance of the English whilst revelling in the Saltire and all things tartan and assuming the moral highground at every opportunity.

There is a certain irony about it that makes me giggle though.

reply to post by Freeborn


It is pathetic isn't it? And yet............

The worrying thing is this is what i actually think the whole independence thing will descend into until the vote (petty argument rather than reasoned debate about issues). I hope not but i do expect it.

yep, we already have daily news about it all.

reply to post by Flavian


I suspect it will increasingly focus on the SNP and it's policies and as much as I'd like to see Scotland remain within The Union I don't think that would be a fair reflection on the option's that Scotland has.

This is a referendum on Scottish independance and NOT on whether or not the SNP are to govern an independant Scotland.

Until now Salmond has had a pretty much easy ride from UK MSM, that is beginning to change and his every move and comment will come under immense scrutiny.....and he'll be found wanting for the simple reason that he is unsuitable for such a position.

Even his own biographer David Torrance recently stated

"Salmond has a tendency to wing it, to rely on instinct, and that gets him in trouble, He spends a great deal of time trying to dig himself out of holes he's dug himself."

And as much as I enjoy watching Salmond squirm - his smug, conceited arrogance and blatant anti-English attitude really piss me off - I can't help but think that Scotland deserves much better.

As a Texan who is looking forward to the renewed independence of his native country I find this an encouraging sign. It's nice to see a people who want to stand on their own.

An interesting article on who has the right to vote in the referendum.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Should it be based on place of birth thus denying those non-Scots who have chose to live in Scotland a vote and allowing those who live elsewhere the right to vote on something that doesn't really affect them?

It raises many issues - those of Ulster Scots and other's of Scottish heritage.

Perhaps due to my Irish ancestry I should demand the right to vote in elections in The Republic?

The article also raises some interesting points as to what qualifies or determines 'Scottishness'.

Originally posted by Freeborn
An interesting article on who has the right to vote in the referendum.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Should it be based on place of birth thus denying those non-Scots who have chose to live in Scotland a vote and allowing those who live elsewhere the right to vote on something that doesn't really affect them?

It raises many issues - those of Ulster Scots and other's of Scottish heritage.

Perhaps due to my Irish ancestry I should demand the right to vote in elections in The Republic?

The article also raises some interesting points as to what qualifies or determines 'Scottishness'.

As a scot who currently lives south of the border the way its arranged is galling but i cant see how they could practically do it otherwise. To do it otherwise would be wide open to all sorts of fraud and shenanigans.

Of course in all these debates the most important question has been missed, which country would get to keep James Bond? The character is a Scot after all :-)

Originally posted by justwokeup
Of course in all these debates the most important question has been missed, which country would get to keep James Bond? The character is a Scot after all :-)

He only acquired his nationality and details about his Scottish background after Dr No had been released in cinema's and Sean Connery had apprised the role, drawing on the new Bond's own depiction for inspiration..

We could just do what any good franchise does when faced with changes, change the canon .. Or, make it more true to life, as I suspect any future independence deal will be much like Irelands, just keep his as a Scot in the employ of HM Secret Service

And now we have 'Little Scotland' demanding a vote on Scottish independance.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

And whilst it would probably help bolster the NO vote personally I can't agree with it - residency surely must be THE qualification for voting?

Originally posted by Freeborn
And now we have 'Little Scotland' demanding a vote on Scottish independance.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

And whilst it would probably help bolster the NO vote personally I can't agree with it - residency surely must be THE qualification for voting?

Not sure about that.. I could be a Brit living in Spain, don't make me Spanish. I'd keep all my rights when returning to the UK.

Then again, it would make it hard to register to vote?

This is doing wonders for the English Nationalist cause, and soon the demands will grow, and English independence will be talked about. I couldn't care less for the Scottish or Scotland, as long as England benefits from this and Scotland takes its fair share of the national debt with it, they could vote to become a department of France for all I care.