Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond strike referendum deal

A deal setting out terms for a Scottish independence referendum has been signed by Prime Minister David Cameron and First Minister Alex Salmond. The agreement, struck in Edinburgh, has paved the way for a vote in autumn 2014, with a single Yes/No question on Scotland leaving the UK. It will also allow 16 and 17-year-olds to take part in the ballot. The SNP secured a mandate to hold the referendum after its landslide Scottish election win last year. The UK government, which has responsibility over constitutional issues, will grant limited powers to the Scottish Parliament to hold a legal referendum, under a mechanism called Section 30.

Source

So basically, the referendum on Scottish independance has been officially recognised and agreed. The key points of the referendum are:

Held in autumn 2014.
16 & 17 year olds eligible to vote.
Single yes/no question.

I will be voting yes for independance, and I know this news wont be applicable to many of you but I hope from an outsiders perspective it is still interesting to observe.

What will Scotland gain from this?

What will the UK lose?

Sorry, American with no clue here. lol

reply to post by SaltireWarrior


I'm quite pleased about this myself, as much as I dislike Alex Salmond. It's a few more little steps in the right direction. Enough time to think and talk about it, and a very simple question. Hopefully it will encourage a lot of debate and also encourage the "yes but" element of Scottish society to look at what's possible...the people who say yes they would like an independent nation, but find excuses not to do it. It's not guaranteed to be a pleasant experience if we do take that route, but every process has teething troubles.

I had a chat buddy years ago from Scotland.

She passionately talked about the independence of her home country.

Its been a long time coming.

Positive energy and outcome - - to you and all those who have fought/fight for their independence.

Personally I think the Scottish people are being used to further Salmond's ambition, Salmond wants to leave this UK Union, only to join another political union, which is not independence... And the proposed referendum in two years time, is timed such that the country in general will be sick to the back teeth on 'austerity' - Which in turn would help drive a wedge between our two countries.

Its like some kind of sibling rivalry, a childish game that's creating unneeded division. We're always stronger together than apart, lets remember that.

I don't think neither country should be focusing on leaving each other - We need to be focused on the European union and when we're having a referendum on whether us, the public of the United Kingdom want to stay there or not. Its absolute bull# that this referendum is taking place in 2014, allowing 16 year old's to vote but yet Cameron continues to refuse the same on continued UK membership of the EU.

In my honest opinion, this is just a distraction from the real issue of Europe, caused to create a bigger divide.

16 & 17 yr olds a vote? They must be desperate to gain independence. The majority of those will just vote against the UK government, because its 'cool' to be anti-establishment.

Genius.

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
16 & 17 yr olds a vote?

They must be desperate to gain independence. The majority of those will just vote against the UK government, because its 'cool' to be anti-establishment.

Genius.

This is the thing..Rile people up, especially the disillusioned youth - then we have thousands of youth who would never normally vote rushing to the polls to leave the big bad UK, they both know what their doing. Its funny how Cameron wouldn't ever allow this type of referendum on the EU.

Divide & Conquer.

reply to post by SaltireWarrior


From Quebec here, so I fully understand your situation. All the best to the people of Scotland and I hope you vote yes and get your independence!

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
16 & 17 yr olds a vote?

They must be desperate to gain independence. The majority of those will just vote against the UK government, because its 'cool' to be anti-establishment.

Genius.

Actually quite the opposite. The polls from YouGov show that 16 and 17 year olds are one of the groups least likely to vote for independence. I'm actually 17 and the majority in my school don't want independence.

The SNP have had it in their manifesto to widen the electorate to include 16 and 17 year olds for some time, and not just for this referendum.

the reality is that at no point has an independant, unbiased party laid out the financial viability of an independant Scotland.

until that happens, its all just talk

Originally posted by n00bUK
This is the thing..Rile people up, especially the disillusioned youth - then we have thousands of youth who would never normally vote rushing to the polls to leave the big bad UK, they both know what their doing. Its funny how Cameron wouldn't ever allow this type of referendum on the EU.

Divide & Conquer.

Yeah, I think its part of the master plan. Scotland gets the North sea oil reserves, only to find there is next to nothing left, therefore they don't get the golden future they think, so they will have to merge into europe. England gets weighed down with the debt, so they will have to go into europe. Northern Ireland gets merged with the republic, then then into europe.

Something along those lines.

It affects the whole UK, therefore the whole UK should be allowed to vote, IMO.

From what I have heard (don't know if it is true), Scots living in England can't vote, and English living in Scotland can vote....it's ridiculous, the whole country should vote, after all, it is the UNITED Kingdom.

For the record, I live on the border, my dads side is English, my mums Scottish.

As a Scot I find this terrifying. The security and wealth of future generations are on the line.

If you remove the oil from the equation what is their plan? Its a finite resource the best days of which are in the past.

Shipbuilding will finally die once the UK MoD lifeline gets pulled and it will become painfully clear how much of the scottish economy is really indirect UK government spending.

Misty eyed romantic notions of a bygone era wont pay the bills.

If nothing else its going to be a long bitter 2 years as the scottish nation politically goes to war with itself.

reply to post by kryton

What will Scotland gain from this?

Nothing

What will the UK lose?

Nothing, we gain £24 billion a year..

reply to post by SaltireWarrior


I've been in favour of an independant Scotland since the 1970's.

People like me and there are lots of them know the reasons independence is the best route and personally I am dreading the next 2 years of constant bickering on msm.

The trouble with msm is it is so biased towards the status quo it is excrutiating listening to their waffle.

Already for example they are banging on about whether or not individuals living in Scotland would be financially better or worse off and staing that £500 a year either way would swing the vote.

For me it's got nothing to do with money. I think we would actually be better off, but even if I found out I would be worse off I would still want to be independant. It's a matter of pride.

Lets be honest who has gained their independance by leaving home as a teenager living with parents and found themselves better off financially ? Does that stop people doing it ? No. Then why do they leave ? It's because it makes them feel much better about themselves and they find a way to get on without being told what to do by their parents.

It's called freedom.

Originally posted by kryton
What will Scotland gain from this?

What will the UK lose?

Sorry, American with no clue here. lol

edit on 10/15/1212 by kryton because: (no reason given)

Scotland will become fascist,with Salmond as the fuhrer.Germany will gain a bitch who they can bully with the euro.The S.N.P. wasn't founded on Hitler's birthday for nothing.
Its not independance that's worrying its people lapping up the S.N.P.
Sneaky little Salmond hides everything from the public at the public's expense of course.That alone should set the alarms ringing in peoples head but a few bribes like free prescriptions keeps them happy.Sad fools.

Originally posted by Atzil321
reply to post by kryton

 

What will Scotland gain from this?

Nothing

What will the UK lose?

Nothing, we gain £24 billion a year..

Scotland contributes something like 9.8 billion per year to the union and doesn't see all of it....

Also we wont be weighed down by the something like £26billion bill for hosting Trident,all that money will get re-invested in the economy.

To me this isn't about finances, it's about reclaiming our pride as a nation and having the ability to make our own decisions.

Will there be hardships? Undoubtedly. But at least we will make desicions by ourself.

Originally posted by SaltireWarrior

Originally posted by Atzil321
reply to post by kryton

 

What will Scotland gain from this?

Nothing

What will the UK lose?

Nothing, we gain £24 billion a year..

Scotland contributes something like 9.8 billion per year to the union and doesn't see all of it....

Also we wont be weighed down by the something like £26billion bill for hosting Trident,all that money will get re-invested in the economy.

To me this isn't about finances, it's about reclaiming our pride as a nation and having the ability to make our own decisions.

Will there be hardships? Undoubtedly. But at least we will make desicions by ourself.

A large part of trident savings will probably be eaten by the expense of duplicating all the MoD etc functions in an independent Scottish bureaucracy, not to mention all the other ministries, embassies, immigration etc etc.

I have no interest in hardship for the reason of 'national pride'. Nor would most once the hardship actually appears.

No doubt the debates on here will be lively :-)

This is pointless really, as it presently stands there is practically no chance of independence. Barely 1/3 of the population supports independence. This isent about 'independence' it is about Alex Salmond's ego.

Besides, what is the point of becoming independent if Salmond is just going to hand Scotland over to the European Union?

Seriously guys you need to look beyond Braveheart and at all the facts. Reality is that an independent Scotland would be a disaster.

The SNP would do well to renounce independence an instead focus on Scotland within the United Kingdom ie the so called DevoMax option that Cameron has rejected.

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
16 & 17 yr olds a vote?

They must be desperate to gain independence. The majority of those will just vote against the UK government, because its 'cool' to be anti-establishment.

Genius.

At 16 years old they are "legally" old enough to create life, and, get sent to another country and lose their life - that one can be a parent and serving in the military but not allowed to vote always seemed a bit weird to me.

I think that if Scotland did gain independence then the remaining political situation in the UK would be very different indeed, as the Labour party would take a hit of 41seats however the Conservatives would lose only 1seat (source - BBC), if there was no re-distribution or change in the number of seats for the rest of the UK then we go from 650seats in total to 591seats, and if the 2010 general election results were repeated then the Conservative party would get 306seats giving them quite the majority (all worked out from this BBC news webpage).

I suppose with the Coalition currently not seeming to be rather popular at all, one may consider that this is David Cameron and the Conservative party trying to ensure re-election.