Why this talk of France as a "friend"?

Interesting interview with an author of a book talking about US-France relations. I've never really thought of France as an ally and I think they have directly or indirectly cost the US more military lives than any other country.

quote:
" FP: What motivated you to write this book?


Miller: The most immediate influence was the recent unpleasantness with France over Iraq, but a deeper motivation was a desire to look at the pervasive myth of Franco-American friendship. If you listen to the commentary about relations between the United States and France, a lot of it assumes that France is America�s oldest friend--and that our two countries share a 200-year history of sweetness and light that began with Lafayette and somehow ended when our unrefined, cowboy president came into office and made a mess of things. This is nonsense. Franco-American history is a 300-year story of friction and hostility."

www.frontpagemag.com...

[edit on 18-10-2004 by Apoc]

Oh man, not again. why don't we have a differnt topic. Say US relations with Fiji. Or France's relationship with Turkey.

I think it's just that there are many that feel that France is our bestest buddy and if they don't agree with something we do then it must be fundamentally flawed. It's a key discussion in the currernt political debate when talking about US actions and what constitutes a multi-national coalition.

Originally posted by intrepid
Oh man, not again. why don't we have a differnt topic. Say US relations with Fiji. Or France's relationship with Turkey.

Actually, why not US relations with Liechtenstein? i mean, there is a freaky country to watch out for. A country invisible on most maps, just sitting there nestled quietly in the alps............

Why has no one investigated thier rather disturbing lack of visibility in world affairs, hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

the fact they stay so quiet makes me think they are up to something...........................maybe they are harboring Bin laden! it would be the perfect place to do it. hell with Bush's terrible geographic skills in locating large countries, imagine him trying to figure out where liechenstein was so he could bomb it? That would be more fun that watching two dogs trying to get their tails out of a chinese finger trap!

Originally posted by Apoc
I think it's just that there are many that feel that France is our bestest buddy and if they don't agree with something we do then it must be fundamentally flawed. It's a key discussion in the currernt political debate when talking about US actions and what constitutes a multi-national coalition.

But this area has been covered in MANY threads before.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
hell with Bush's terrible geographic skills in locating large countries, imagine him trying to figure out where liechenstein was so he could bomb it?

I can just see it now. Bush, "Liechenstien? Isn't that some kind of monster"?

Originally posted by Apoc
I think it's just that there are many that feel that France is our bestest buddy and if they don't agree with something we do then it must be fundamentally flawed. It's a key discussion in the currernt political debate when talking about US actions and what constitutes a multi-national coalition.

quit being moronic, its the other way around, if France doesnt bow down to every one of US demands, then we just sit there and blast them...They dont owe us anything at all. And we cant sit there and demonize them because the wont go illegally invade other nations with us.

And before you say "w-well france would be under german control blah blah" Remember, We would still be speaking with funny english accents and have a stupid british flag hanging overhead if the french didnt help us out in the revolution.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by krackel]

The main reason Americans don't like the French is because France espouses the same arrogance and self serving foreign policy as America. You're more alike than you think.


BTW, the country to watch is surely Switzerland. Sitting there neutral all these years with everybody�s money, who knows what they're up to?



Recent one line Headline on the Onion recently:

"Switzerland finally snaps"

As a country, why dont we just get out of this denial state, and stop looking for other countries to place our problems upon, the truth is we have dug ourselves a hole, and now were looking for someone to help get us out. But we put ourselves here, and its no ones fault but our own. France didnt make us go to Iraq nor did Germany, The rest of the world is kind of pissed off at us now, and the way to fix things isnt going to be through blaming France or whatever country is "popular" to hate.

Originally posted by kegs
The main reason Americans don't like the French is because France espouses the same arrogance and self serving foreign policy as America. You're more alike than you think.


BTW, the country to watch is surely Switzerland. Sitting there neutral all these years with everybody�s money, who knows what they're up to?



Recent one line Headline on the Onion recently:

"Switzerland finally snaps"

Youre actually right about that. i have often refered to french as smelly Americans with better alcohol and costlier clothing.


Bah, Switzerland. they are a puppet state for Liechtenstein! Everyone except Bush can see switzerland and find it.......but try findting Liechtenstein................

Its those little tiny one square mile pristine alpine principlaities you need fear.........who knows whats going on there?

You might me on to something, Intrepid, though it would not be wise to startle our poor, unstable, manic president with such a thought. If he suspects Liechtenstein is some haven for halloween monsters and evil killer easter bunny clones, he might end up nuking half of europe in a desperate attempt to find it...................

And whatever you do, dont tell him they have oil........GODS GORBID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was watching the holy grail and the knights templar on history channel.

I wasn't aware that the king of france burned the knights templar alive and wrongfully accused them of treason...

nothing to do with the post, but I saw the word france so I thought i'd share.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

The main reason Americans don't like the French is because France espouses the same arrogance and self serving foreign policy as America. You're more alike than you think.

bad thinking (generalizing)...

[edit on 18-10-2004 by krackel]

[edit on 18-10-2004 by krackel]

Originally posted by kegs
The main reason Americans don't like the French is because France espouses the same arrogance and self serving foreign policy as America. You're more alike than you think.

So true

IMHO, the difference is that the French government is so outspoken and agresive in their criticism of the US, while the US government (for the most part) usually just shrugs France off because we don't need them to do what we want.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
So true

IMHO, the difference is that the French government is so outspoken and agresive in their criticism of the US, while the US government (for the most part) usually just shrugs France off because we don't need them to do what we want.

Why is it a problem for France to criticize the US government? HALF OF THE U.S. IS CRITICIZING THE GOV!!!!! So if you dont need france to do what you want, then why do politicians talk about france so much? Why is it that you like to make france the focus of your attention, when they arent even in the picture? It seems fox news rush limbaugh and other conservatives always talk about france...its because France wont bow down to our every request (theyre not our lap dog like the UK) ...this is OUR war, not theirs, they dont owe us any kind of allegience, And your avatar of the twin towers is really cheap (just thought you should know that) Bringing that stuff up just stirs emotions, not good for political debating.


[edit on 18-10-2004 by krackel]

Krackel, you forgot the rest of the quote. you left only the original quote i quoted from kegs. You need to re edit it and get my part of the post in to have my proper quote. id do it for you if I could.

Anyway, seriously, this anti French paranoia is getting so old. my roomate is constantly glued to Fox TV, thats all I hear, is o'reilly or that fred Flinstone lookalike Shawn hannity blabbing about how evil and wicked the French are, and what slimey traitors they are.

Its so lame really. Listening to thsi rhetoric all day, youd almost swear the next thing they shall come up with is that the French were in cahoots with Bin laden and organized and funded 9/11, even provided pilots!

Seriously. Even if France was serving its own self-interest when they blocked us in the security council, I simply cannot see nor understand how this makes them part of the "axis of evil". So what of they tried to block us in the UN?

Its not like we paid any atention to the UN anyway, for gods sake. Its not like France has done something dangerous or harmful to us. they opposed it cuz they were busy doing backdoor deals with saddam, and we werent about to let them share in that motherload of oil that was the rightful property of Haliburton.......er.........I mean, the Iraqi people and their future......

To hear some people talk about the French, youd think we were at a full scale war with them p[lanning Normandy part 2.

I fond the anti french sentiment about as out of touch and overkill as i do the rabid anti Americanism I see alot.

i can think of alot worse countries than France to mercilessly bash, boycott, and threaten.

Well, a little bit of reason isnt so bad huh? People need something to hate, now that saddam is gone, France seems like a nice target, except the problem is, France never did anything to us, and France is also not in a "war" mentality like we are, so we cant expect them to bow down to us like were god gift to earth....Because were definatley not.

The debate is less about "hating the French" or France's right to disagree with the US but more about how one pres. candidate (Kerry) feels that we need to have France's approval for anything we do. The fact is they have always disagreed with the US at almost every turn, as is their right. Using them as the approval base for policy is laughable at best and dangerous at worst.

Oh, France has done some underhanded crap to us. Hold no illusion, and they have been very naughty. Weve done the same thing to them. Thats politics.

my point is, this overkill of France as the sum of all evil is the equivlant of beating your dog with a leaded baseball bat because he humped your neighbor's leg.

its simply a matter of irrational and overrbearing pointles paranoia that the French are out to get us, we must cut all ties with them and out the whole country on embargo and reprogram our nukes and aim them at Paris.

I get so bored listening to this constant "France is an Ally of Terrorism and they want to destroy America".

I hardly consider france to be dangerous, evil, or out to get us. Annoying, yes, but certainly not this totally irredemable minion of evil.

Its utter nonsense. People who constantly attack france are not bright enough to see the REAL enemies who mask themselves as allies remain totally in the clear, like saudi and israel.

France is a guardian angel comapred the the saudis and israelis, who supposedly are...."our friends".

Originally posted by Apoc
The debate is less about "hating the French" or France's right to disagree with the US but more about how one pres. candidate (Kerry) feels that we need to have France's approval for anything we do. The fact is they have always disagreed with the US at almost every turn, as is their right. Using them as the approval base for policy is laughable at best and dangerous at worst.

Actually apoc you named the thread yourself "Why this talk of France as a "friend"?" If you wanted to discuss how a certain candidate feels about the issue then you should have named it differently and used a different article. Also your first thread does not even mention Kerry. As far as I am concerned this debate is about "Why this talk of France as a "friend"?" If you want to talk about kerries views, start a new thread.

Originally posted by Apoc
The debate is less about "hating the French" or France's right to disagree with the US but more about how one pres. candidate (Kerry) feels that we need to have France's approval for anything we do. The fact is they have always disagreed with the US at almost every turn, as is their right. Using them as the approval base for policy is laughable at best and dangerous at worst.

You are misquoting, Kerry said that we will never give another country veto power over us, nor did he say we have to seek approval to defend ourselves, All he ever said was he would not go to war without allies. Kerry also said that burning bridges with long time allies will not make us any safer.