US Hypocrisy.

Doesnt england have cameras on every corner and is a step closer to a totalitarian government every day? Yeah there's a lot of hypocrisy coming out of the US (mostly from the left though)

reply to post by DrNotforhire


Funnily enough Scotland does too. You know, that country just above England on the map!!!

Originally posted by Sinny

Meanwhile the US and USSR avoided WW-III

Leaving out all historical context and contributing factors is the norm apparently here at ATS sometimes.

Just been reading the latest Assange thread, inclusive of his latest speech. A speech which is probably one of his MOST detrimental yet to the PTB, and more importantly that of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

A phrase I find slightly amusing my self, as from what I gather, you aren't united at all.

Then you obviously don't know and understand who you're actually speaking and ranting about. Americans have always been on many sides of issues. Remember, we are the country that is pro war and anti war at the same time.

Julian Assange has been careful with the information he has leaked. Do you really believe they release everything they have?

No, but what is funny is that when wikileaks revealed other non US related details they get ignored and denounced as propaganda. So, which is it? They released two stories. 1. Many of Iran's neighbors have repeatedly and in private requested the US take out Iran and that so far three POTUS have refused. 2. They also revealed the China is tired of carrying North Korea and would consider unification under another form of Government.

What has he leaked so far that would endanger the life of your soldiers? The soldiers who, by the way, are by majority, cold blooded killers.

Really?

It seems that this thread posting is more of a knee jerk emotional reaction than those who you are accusing of being so in replying.

Julian Assange has saved many lives, no doubt, by making the US and allied forces think twice before breaking international law and killing innocent civilians. The people who still persecute Assange, including those on this site are blindly patriotic, or have an agenda.

As pointed out earlier which country is exactly doing the persecuting? Also, is that your preemptive defense when some disagrees with some of what you've written? Accuse them of blind patriotism?

I think you've made some valid points but have gone a bit over the top.

As an American I'll support your right to express how you feel.

Signed.

A Cold Blooded US Marine

Here’s a thought. Let’s remove America from every aspect of known to the world. And when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING. I’m sure it won’t be long before some country comes-a-knocking on our door looking for help.

Originally posted by Propulsion
Here’s a thought. Let’s remove America from every aspect of known to the world. And when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING. I’m sure it won’t be long before some country comes-a-knocking on our door looking for help.

Agreed...

Either after the first natural disaster, first insurrection,first time they need money

they always come a runnin to the USA

reply to post by Sinny

And you are BY FAR the most hypocritical country on the face of the Earth. For the last 60 years anyway.

Hypocritical yes, but it goes back much further than sixty years although people like to blame FDR or Nixon or Carter or Bush for all that's gone wrong. And I will apologise up front for the lengthy rant.

It began long ago, even long before America was founded.

But national pride in the US of A has been built on a long string of lies and misinformation that morphed, over time, into an unshakable belief that most Americans hold sacred. We’re simply the best. Our Constitution is the best. It is an illusion.

The constitutional convention’s delegates were actually only tasked with revising and amending the Articles of Confederation BETWEEN the States, not with writing a whole new document to centralize government power under their own control. But the Articles didn’t go far enough to satisfy several of the delegates who were more interested in protecting their own personal interests than in the wellbeing of either the people or the country.

Those who protested the overreach of the articles and clauses debated and written throughout the highly secretive process, such as Patrick Henry, were silenced as effectively as an occupy Wall Street gathering is today, with threats and harassment, however some of their writings are still available and are as pertinent now as they were then and should be known by Americans and foreigners alike because when true facts are ignored or denied, illusion becomes willful delusion.

One such protestor, code named PHILADELPHIENSIS out of fear of retribution by somebody in a position to make his life difficult said:

But the members of the Federal Convention were men w e [sic] been all tried in the field of action, say some; they have fought for American liberty. Then the more to their shame be it said; curse on the villain who protects virgin innocence only with a view that he may himself become the ravisher; so that if the assertion were true, it only turns to their disgrace; but as it happens it is not truth, or at least only so in part. This was a scheme taken by the despots and their sycophants to bias the public mind in favor of the constitution. For the convention was composed of a variety of characters: ambitious men, Jesuits, tories, lawyers, etc., formed the majority, whose similitude to each other, consisted only in their determination to lord it over their fellow citizens; like the rays that converging from every direction meet in a point, their sentiments and deliberations concentered in tyranny alone; they were unanimous in forming a government that should raise the fortunes and respectability of the well born few, and oppress the plebeians.

But back to Patrick Henry, who put it this way (in part):

What then are we to think of the motives and designs of those men who are urging the implicit and immediate adoption of the proposed government; are they fearful, that if you exercise your good sense and discernment, you will discover the masqued aristocracy, that they are attempting to smuggle upon you under the suspicious garb of republicanism? When we find that the principal agents in this business are the very men who fabricated the form of government, it certainly ought to be conclusive evidence of their invidious design to deprive us of our liberties. The circumstances attending this matter, are such as should in a peculiar manner excite your suspicion; it might not be useless to take a review of some of them.

Many similar charges were lodged by those in a position to know what was being written and why, and thirteen of the delegates refused to ratify the constitution for similar reasons. These statements can be found here: www.wepin.com... as well as many more at the general index: www.wepin.com...

If you walk history slowly forward from the ratification of that venerated document to today, you will not find one decade in which the constitution has not been used to further consolidate power and authority into the hands of the few, taken from the labor and trust of the many.

Dunno, its been said that the truth will set you free although I certainly have no proof of that being the case, but in this case truth should definitely at least pi$$ you off.

I have been practicing the art of translation by listening to politicians by studying commercials.

Basically whenever a commercial says: we use only the finest ingredients, they actually mean, we have a purchasing agent saving us money making the cheapest possible product that we can.

If you try it with politics mostly the same thing can happen, when politicians say that they are going to pass a law under homeland security act for our protection: translation, they are going to take away another freedom to endanger our privacy even more "for our protection".

Whatever they say, just think the opposite, and you may very well be right in your translation.

reply to post by Kastogere


its because they can. the american constitution only applies to americans, not the rest of the world.

if americans send covert agents to foreign lands, they can do what ever they please.

its up to those countries to route them out and deal with them.

the constitution does say that any treaty signed by the government must be honored.

Thanks for the post Sinny.

I am a touch patriotic, and part of that patriotism demands I look at my country to see the boils and warts it has...without identification of a problem, how can it be fixed after all.


I don't spend ages slamming say, Saudi Arabia..because I expect them to be animals..but I would gladly slam the UK, because I expect them to hold high standards. You also feel the same about the US...that you expect us to live to a higher standard because we are capable...which frankly, makes you a greater lover of the US than the people here waving flags and screaming god bless america while denying any issues.

So, keep it up. point out our flaws, show us where we need to stop being morons and work on..because I also believe we should aim for higher roads.

reply to post by Propulsion


I would love to see that, and not answer the door! Maybe if we kept to ourselves and used our tax dollars to pay down our enormous debt, focus on improving the lives of Americans and reducing the the enormous military budget, our country could live in peace and not have to sacrifice our sons and daughters for political chicken hawks and corporate greed.

reply to post by Sinny


To play Devils advocate.

You're totally ignoring the fact that a Crime was committed in the release of those cables.

Some of those cables were Secret. Possession and distribution of those is a crime.

While some good has come out of the release. That still does not change things.

A crime was committed.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Sinny

 

Selective history is a bad thing Sinny... England doesn't have a sterling history at all regarding warfare. It was the nation that perfected the idea of Empire in the modern world and engaged in travesties globally. Of course a girl from Ireland knows these things, and they should strike home.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki cost roughly 180,000 lives, if memory serves, but ended a war that had something along the lines of 60,000,000 causalities ( again going by memory here. ) So cherry picking roughly 0.003% of those deaths to take a moral stand about... Well that is kind of hypocritical.

hypocritical
Definition
hy·po·crit·i·cal[ hìppə kríttik'l ]
ADJECTIVE
1. falsely claiming high principles: showing, originating from, or of the nature of hypocrisy

Source for definition

~Heff

You make a great point however I think ultimately what you and the OP are both illustrating is the horrible absolutely HORRIBLE ability for people/governments to "weigh" lives and justify actions...Pretty much any country to have military capability is at some point been super misguided (mostly by horrible unwanted leadership) to inaccurately balance the weight of life...

I mean here we are decade+ deep in the middle east because of 3000 lost lives...We find justice for 3000 lost lives by killing 10x + that amount...

We do so mostly out of fear and emotional need for vengeance and retribution and a disillusion ability to "predict the future"...I don't know how many times I have heard the phrase "were fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here"...the whole preemptive war and intervention foreign policies are due to this disillusion ability to predict the future...

The bottom line is humanity is almost better of in the chaos of anarchy...because the order of government can dish out more organized damage on more people as indiscriminately as the Aurora shooter due to the disillusion justifications of clueless people and their support for it from the comfort of their ignorance bubbles...

The wold situation couldn't possible make any less sense and be any less hypocritical than it is now at this point...and this goes for any nation and its government...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Thanks for the post Sinny.

I am a touch patriotic, and part of that patriotism demands I look at my country to see the boils and warts it has...without identification of a problem, how can it be fixed after all.


I don't spend ages slamming say, Saudi Arabia..because I expect them to be animals..but I would gladly slam the UK, because I expect them to hold high standards. You also feel the same about the US...that you expect us to live to a higher standard because we are capable...which frankly, makes you a greater lover of the US than the people here waving flags and screaming god bless america while denying any issues.

So, keep it up. point out our flaws, show us where we need to stop being morons and work on..because I also believe we should aim for higher roads.

Thanks Saturn, nice to know you know where I'm coming from, especially as being one of my favorite posters also

I've been putting off replying to Slayers comments, but thankfully the poster above who replied to him has pretty much summed up my response

reply to post by shuar911


Okay, if clicking a link is too much trouble, here's a little something from that "government" website that might tempt you to read further.

Salomon (sometimes written as Solomon and Solomons in period documents) was a Polish-born Jewish immigrant to America who played an important role in financing the Revolution. When the war began, Salomon was operating as a financial broker in New York City.

He is lauded as a hero by the government ~

"though Salomon’s role in financing the Revolution has at times been exaggerated, his willingness to take financial risks for the Patriot cause helped establish the new nation."

Better?

Originally posted by DrunkYogi
reply to post by DrNotforhire

 

Funnily enough Scotland does too. You know, that country just above England on the map!!!

America forget about Scotland, Wales and Ireland when they talk about the UK, they call us England same as the Queen of England, or Prime Minister of England!

I agree completely with Sinny and waited for all the usual flamers to come out of the closet and attack her for her post. Yes, the UK is as guilty as any other country but she picked the US I take it as an example. The UK jumps whenever the US tell or ask them to do something all the time. We should say no for a change but then we would be just like other countries who do that and look at them, except we have nukes as well if need be, and we as a nation stick together when we are threatened as has been proven in the past and no walkover.
What is it with America who are always at war with someone all the time?
Can they not just concentrate on their own people and use the money and resources to a better country instead of spending countless dollars and getting too many good people killed , and for what?

reply to post by frazzle


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