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Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by milominderbinder
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by milominderbinder
reply to post by NavyDoc
...true enough. Ironic, indeed.
Thank you. I appreaciate the injection of objective reason in the thread. I'll star your post for that.
No worries. While I do emphatically agree with OP that the US has a MAJOR problem w/ hypocrisy... sorta like you pointed out a few posts ago w/ the guy who wants to end US Interventionism...except for when it's intervention that he thinks is a good idea. That's hypocrisy in action.
Likewise, I really can't understand how the US military could be labeled "terrorists"...but somehow have the IRA escape this same definition. One would say that it's almost...well...hypocritical, I suppose.
I like you. ALthough we may disagree on a few historical points, I have found you to be a reasoned intellectual. I appreciate the discourse we have had. One thing I miss from university are discussions like this. I thank you for the intellectual stimulation.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by coolforschool
HONEST QUESTION WHAT GOOD HAS THE USA EVER DONE FOR THE WORLD??? OR WHAT GOOD HAS IT EVEN DONE FOR IT'S SELF FOR THAT MATTER?????
IM ALL EARS PEACE OUT
Something about some mean dudes known as the Nazis who were trying to take over the world. I kind of recall that the US had something to do with that...you know stopping them and stuff...and helping out our British friends when they were being bombed to # while the Irish were neutral and didn't want to upset the Nazis...but I'm not sure 'cause I gots to play X-box.edit on 28-9-2012 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by milominderbinder
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by coolforschool
HONEST QUESTION WHAT GOOD HAS THE USA EVER DONE FOR THE WORLD??? OR WHAT GOOD HAS IT EVEN DONE FOR IT'S SELF FOR THAT MATTER?????
IM ALL EARS PEACE OUT
Something about some mean dudes known as the Nazis who were trying to take over the world. I kind of recall that the US had something to do with that...you know stopping them and stuff...and helping out our British friends when they were being bombed to # while the Irish were neutral and didn't want to upset the Nazis...but I'm not sure 'cause I gots to play X-box.edit on 28-9-2012 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)
Agreed...we saved Europe's ass from the Germans. Twice. Three times if you count the Marshall Plan.
That being said...I'm ALSO not comfortable using our good deeds from damn near a hundred years ago now to justify/extrapolate that therefore ALL US Intervention is inherently wise and just forevermore. The US has done PLENTY of shady sh^t...everything from exterminating the Native Americans to slavery to our catastrophic foreign policy decisions in the Middle East from the close of the WWII to the present.
The whole point of not being a hypocrite is to NEITHER justify or excuse some of the truly horrific things which we, as a nation, have done in our past...as well as not also condemning EVERYTHING that the US has done. After all...I also seem to remember a certain period in time when the Irish had a problem growing potatoes that they were just tickled pink that we were no longer British colonies...remember??
Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by milominderbinder
Yes. It is the give and take of knowlege that improves the overall understanding. Although we disagree on some points, I must appreciate the gentlemanly way you express yours. You, sir, are a fine example of an intellectual.
Well said man.. really, well said. That sums up most of the Americans mindset on the matter (that I know anyway).. our politicians are the crooks so if we could only get rid of them.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
I can swing with that. Almost half a million Americans died ending slavery. That is, IMHO, a legitimate response to the issue. Slavery, albeit a horrible pox on mankind, did not begin nor end with the USA. As we Americans recognize our past mistakes, the rest of the world seems to forget their contributions as well, laying everything negative at the feet of the US, forgetting such salient facts as the fact that slavery was alive and well in Africa and the ME long before Europeans gained a foothold there. It is laughable to see that people think that a handful of european traders could have stalked, captured, and sold some of the worlds greatest hunters and warriors on their own turf. Tribes sold their enemies into slavery. Slavery is a horrible mark on every civilization.
America has made some bad decisions and good ones. The mark of decent society is the effort to learn from and correct those bad decisions.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
I can swing with that. Almost half a million Americans died ending slavery. That is, IMHO, a legitimate response to the issue. Slavery, albeit a horrible pox on mankind, did not begin nor end with the USA. As we Americans recognize our past mistakes, the rest of the world seems to forget their contributions as well, laying everything negative at the feet of the US, forgetting such salient facts as the fact that slavery was alive and well in Africa and the ME long before Europeans gained a foothold there. It is laughable to see that people think that a handful of european traders could have stalked, captured, and sold some of the worlds greatest hunters and warriors on their own turf. Tribes sold their enemies into slavery. Slavery is a horrible mark on every civilization.
America has made some bad decisions and good ones. The mark of decent society is the effort to learn from and correct those bad decisions.
Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by milominderbinder
The motive for the second bomb is obvious. After all, Nagasaki translates to "sea of roofs". It was meant to be a loud and clear expression of superiority. Shock and awe, WW2 style.
~Heff
Originally posted by NavyDoc
America has made some bad decisions and good ones. The mark of decent society is the effort to learn from and correct those bad decisions.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by NavyDoc
You mean whilst the Bushes and banking cartel families were financing them... ?
Were they? The Bushes were involved in WWII? Wow, I'd like to see some sort of evidence about that. The Kennedy's did so , that is true. As well did many other Irish. Of course the Irish were neutral because they did not want to bother their Nazi buddies.
Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by milominderbinder
I have addressed that issue directly. Factions of the Japanese government were prepared to surrender, other factions were not. Even after the atomic bombs, Hirohito, who was literally considered to be a living God, was nearly executed by factions of the military simply for recording a surrender.
WW2 is not one of my primary areas of interest. But this particular aspect of it falls into a subject I have paid much more attention to. The Samurai / Bushido culture. Those who followed this code are very devout in their embrace of death before dishonor. And the idea of any American soldier setting foot on Japanese soil, or surrender, was not just morally repugnant to many Japanese - it was unthinkable.
Originally posted by milominderbinder
Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by milominderbinder
I have addressed that issue directly. Factions of the Japanese government were prepared to surrender, other factions were not. Even after the atomic bombs, Hirohito, who was literally considered to be a living God, was nearly executed by factions of the military simply for recording a surrender.
WW2 is not one of my primary areas of interest. But this particular aspect of it falls into a subject I have paid much more attention to. The Samurai / Bushido culture. Those who followed this code are very devout in their embrace of death before dishonor. And the idea of any American soldier setting foot on Japanese soil, or surrender, was not just morally repugnant to many Japanese - it was unthinkable.
Sure...but it's not like all the military wanted to continue to fight and only Hirohito wanted to bail out. Prime Minister Kantarō Suzuki, Naval Minister Mitsumasa Yonai and Minister of Foreign Affairs Shigenori Tōgō ALL wanted to surrender....that's why they were practically begging us for 7 months before we nuked them.
Originally posted by Sinny
What you supposed to do when you have half an armed army shooting upon your women and children, with all the men taken out the picture so they cant defend their nation?
Don't. Even. Go. There.
Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by Hefficide
I'm an Irish Loyalist, so your barking up the wrong tree
Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
PS- Assange is no hero by the way. He's a sensationalist self-promoter no more looking for harmony and peace between peoples than the average bankster. He went kicking at hornet's nests and by gosh by golly, them hornets came after him. So be it, he knew the risks, and he wasn't doing it for altruism.edit on 29-9-2012 by HabiruThorstein because: Post Script (previous edits were grammar
While I don't see the need for the cheap shot, I do appreciate the links and stand corrected on that aspect of the debate.