Grand Ayatollah: Jesus An illegitimate Child.. (In The Bible?)

reply to post by VforVendettea

There is strong evidence that J's father was a roman soldier (Of German decent) called Pantera.

Speculation does not mean "strong evidence".

From your wiki link

The hypothesis is considered extremely unlikely by mainstream scholars, given that there is no evidence to support it.

and also...

A possible connection between the two Panteras has been hypothesized by James Tabor,

Who is this James Tabor? Dude doesn't even have his own wikipedia page.

Your other two links are from websites with an agenda against religion. That does not count as evidence either.

I see complete change , mistranslation and manipulation in here.

Those who lie and bring division will pay for this.



I want to ask Christians a queation :

Is there a true explanation on how Jesus was born , in the bible ?

Can you guide me ?

Anyway , I have seen many people mock christ and call themselves Christians.

+ I have seen many movies and music videos which mock Marry and Jesus.

Is this some kind of culture ?

Originally posted by tony9802
This is an article from www.wnd.com and I thought it was very interesting; (The moderators may move this wherever they feel is most appropriate..) I will quote Ayatollah Khorsani because he states something that I am interested in discussing, so here is the quote: “Hey, clueless pope who has chosen silence (on the Muhammad video), answer this: If there was no Quran, then as the Bible and the Torah have it, Jesus the son of Miriam is a bastard and a bastard will be forbidden from the heavens of God, and so the high place of Jesus is due to the existence of the Prophet Muhammad as the last prophet by God,” Khorasani said.

Here is the news article link to read in it's entirety: www.wnd.com...

What I want to know for those of you who might be able to answer the question, where is it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ was born a bastard? I know that there are writings in the Talmud, but I haven't seen this one in the Bible; Thanks,

I'm tired of people speaking in the name of religion for their own political gain

Ohh here we go again... Ok guys, now lets run out in the street like rabid zombies and destroy our own cities and towns. Also we should go on a crusade to the middle east if they don´t take back those statements..

NOT!!

But seriously, what the H*** is going on? Have they all lost their minds... Ohh I think so..

Originally posted by tony9802


What I want to know for those of you who might be able to answer the question, where is it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ was born a bastard? I know that there are writings in the Talmud, but I haven't seen this one in the Bible; Thanks,

It is stated that Joseph did not have 'knowledge' (intimate relations) with Mary ... but she was Pregnant none-the-less

that could mean the Virgin Mary had relations without her knowledge with someone else
or had an Immaculate Conception ~which is the Catholic explaination...
One must read-between-the-lines


so by default, the child is technically a bastard but not referred to that classification in the Bible for obvious reasons




bible.cc...

English Standard Version (©2001)
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way.
When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph,
before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

betrothed was equivelent to the Engagement period before a marriage ceremony even took place

Originally posted by tony9802

What I want to know for those of you who might be able to answer the question, where is it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ was born a bastard? I know that there are writings in the Talmud, but I haven't seen this one in the Bible; Thanks,

I don't think he was born a bastard, but after living with 12 other guys for a long enough period of time, he did get a bit testy at times. Hell, wouldn't you? Especially with Bartholomew peeing in the sink when the bathroom was busy in the morning. Seriously. The guy was doing his best, and then when the whole circus spun out in the end like it did, yeah...he had his moments, but I don't know if I would say he was a bastard. Maybe a bit of a passive-aggressive little prick at times, but hell, look at what he was dealing with.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Wait, is he a Muslim insulting a prophet? They consider Isa a prophet. And a "bastard" would be a child who's father is unknown, that isn't the case with Yahshua, His Father is God according to the Bible.

No he isn't insulting the prophet he is saying that the Jews and Christians do.

That is exactly right, Ayatollah Khorasani is not insulting Christ The Prophet, nor Christ born Immaculately of Miriam, he is saying that Jews and Christians insult Him and that Jews and Christians claim that he was a bastard which would be PROFANE-- (Unless we consider the Juliuis Ben Pantera option, where his true father is actually Roman and we all know that the Vatican has historically hidden so many things about Scripture..)

Given my naivete, my opinion is that Islam is actually very similar to Christianity-- the only difference is in the TREATMENT OF WOMEN..But, in the Old Testament, Judeans likewise mistreated women so what is the big deal.. 1. They practiced polygamy and had several wives as is practiced currently in the ME 2. There is one instance in the Old Testament where God says it's appropriate to strike a woman, but he says to use branches or brush of leaves (so the striking is not violent.?.) 3. Both the Quran and The Bible state that HOMOSEXUALS must be KILLED, (Leviticus: sleeping with a man as you would a woman) That they should be MURDERED, so Christians and Muslims are identical where that is concerned. Finally, well The Quran just like The Bible likewise purportedly states that women should not have ABORTIONS-- I have never seen anything written in Scripture that says that women may not have abortions, but maybe some of you know where that Scriptural reference is located. I think what I am trying to get to is that, Muslims and Judean Laws are actually quite similar- Christians agree with those laws (anti-abortion, anti-homosexual), the only difference between these groups is that Muslims still live in a calendar belonging to the Middle Ages, and still have freshly cooked Near Eastern bread each morning whereas Western Christians live in Post Industrial Neo Capitalist society where McDonald's is an option for morning bread;

In the Mid-East, in places such as the Northern mountains of Iraq or the southern region of Turkey people still speak Aramaic for crying out loud!! In other words, these people, muslims are still abiding by ancient laws and ancient rules as they were meant to be followed by Judeans, Christians and Muslims during that time:

reply to post by tony9802

(Unless we consider the Juliuis Ben Pantera option, where his true father is actually Roman and we all know that the Vatican has historically hidden so many things about Scripture..)

I addressed the Pantera guy in the first post on this page.

The wiki link says "The hypothesis is considered extremely unlikely by mainstream scholars, given that there is no evidence to support it."

So it can be dismissed as conjecture.

Originally posted by yuppa
I have a question.....WHY DO YOU REFRENCE THE TALMUD AND NOT THE TORAH?
THE TORAH IS WHAT NORMAL JEWS GO BY NOT THE TALMUD

The Talmud is basically Junk because in the Torah it states the Talmud is not to be followed if i remember correctly.

edit on 25-9-2012 by yuppa because: for BIG clarity.

In response to you comment, I found this video by Brother Nathaniel where he discusses a little bit how the synagogue follows the Talmud and by so doing is following the wrong book-- He talks about Kol Nidre, which is a ritual where any oaths and promises made by Jews can be discarded; This is a practice that normally takes place on Yom Kippur, which just started yesterday, September 25th, and continues through today September 26th- Yom Kippur and Day of Atonement: Check out the short video, and see what this guy says about The Talmud and how Jews do follow it: www.realjewnews.com...

reply to post by tony9802


The Jews do insult Him, calling Him a bastard, never heard a Christian do that. And in Christianity we know who His Father is, YHVH.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Yes, gotcha..

Are these the same clerics who spoke out a fatwa again nuclear weapons?....right.....
Besides, anyone who sees themselves as a sign of god or middle person, can't be taken too seriously...
Isn't faith something between you and god? Then what does this loony have to do with it?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Logarock

 

You see Islam must knock Jesus down a few pegs so thier guy looks biger. lol

If Islam wanted to make "their guy" bigger, it would have just denied Jesus as the messiah and established Mohammad as the messiah. Instead, Islam confirms Jesus as the messiah.

But they really dont take Jesus as messiah in the round. Thier idea of Jesus is of their own making.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Logarock

 

So christianity needs affirmation outside of itself. No reason to take it seriously or Jesus seriously.

The fact that another religion confirms Jesus as messiah, is a good reason to take Jesus seriously. Without Islam, Jesus can be dismissed as just another religious leader... exclusive to just one religion.

Jesus was confirmed by the prophets.......before He was ever born and thats all the confirmation the world needs. Jesus fullfilled these prophets of truth year after the wrote.

Not sure the jews, whos scriptures Christians hijacked, accept that.

Had God wanted any affirmation from mohammad then mohammad would have been before Jesus.

That makes absolutely no sense.

It makes no sence becasue you havent studied the scriptures. All of the prophets that fortold of Jesus were before His time or in Johns case knew Him personaly.

Now your comments about Jesus needing the afirmation of Islam is simply part of your rhetorical tapestry. Logicaly it means nothing and even suggests a self applied superiority that chrisitanity should bow to.

One cant take Islam seriously as an affirmation of Christ when it scews His reality, even rejecting basic ideas about Christ that He himself communicated.

Mary and Joseph were married when Jesus was born.
That means he was definately 'legitimate'.
Even if Jesus had been illegitimate ... so what? No one cares about that anymore.
The Grand Ayatollah doesn't have a problem with pee'n on Christianity, but
I bet he'd be the first to be calling for people to be beheaded if someone
pee'd on Islam. :shk:

Originally posted by St Udio
that could mean the Virgin Mary had relations without her knowledge with someone else
or had an Immaculate Conception ~which is the Catholic explaination...

Just FYI ... in Catholicism the 'Immaculate Conception' refers to Mary, not Jesus.
Mary being conceived without original sin.
It has nothing at all to do with Jesus being conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Islam is the ONLY religion that confirms Jesus as messiah. Thanks to Islam, we now have more than a billion people who have accepted Jesus as messiah... and no, you cant claim to be a muslim if you reject Jesus.

They claim he's a prophet .. lower than Muhammed even ... but they do not acknowledge him as Son of God .. as God Incarnate ... as part of the Christian Holy Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit). Their belief in Jesus is VERY different from who/what the vast majority of Christians believe Christ to be.

Oh well. The Bible says mankind will know and bow before Yahweh. That is the whole point of the last 7 years. His wrath is finally unleashed so mankind will know who is truly God. We will see soon enough who is God and who is not god.

He can say anything he wants, i just have a feeling, soon; he will regret some things he has said.

Of course we have being say soon for a while >.< , i just think during my life time, we may just see it. Prophecy is lining up perfectly and to be honest, it weirds me out, but I'm awestruck at the same time. Just maybe, just maybe us humans will be seeing the face of God sooner than we think.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Mary and Joseph were married when Jesus was born.
That means he was definately 'legitimate'.
Even if Jesus had been illegitimate ... so what? No one cares about that anymore.
The Grand Ayatollah doesn't have a problem with pee'n on Christianity, but
I bet he'd be the first to be calling for people to be beheaded if someone
pee'd on Islam. :shk:

Well, technically they were "betrothed" but the marriage was yet to be consummated. You are right that legally at the betrothal the couple were considered married and a certificate of divorce would need to be given to formally end the betrothal.