Grand Ayatollah: Jesus An illegitimate Child.. (In The Bible?)

This is an article from www.wnd.com and I thought it was very interesting; (The moderators may move this wherever they feel is most appropriate..) I will quote Ayatollah Khorsani because he states something that I am interested in discussing, so here is the quote: “Hey, clueless pope who has chosen silence (on the Muhammad video), answer this: If there was no Quran, then as the Bible and the Torah have it, Jesus the son of Miriam is a bastard and a bastard will be forbidden from the heavens of God, and so the high place of Jesus is due to the existence of the Prophet Muhammad as the last prophet by God,” Khorasani said.

Here is the news article link to read in it's entirety: www.wnd.com...

What I want to know for those of you who might be able to answer the question, where is it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ was born a bastard? I know that there are writings in the Talmud, but I haven't seen this one in the Bible; Thanks,

Here, let me sort this out: All children have two parents. That's the way it is. If one pretends he didn't do the dirty deed, it was still done. Evidence: the child. Now, it doesn't matter whether the father acknowledges this or not. It doesn't matter whether the parents are married or not. It doesn't matter if the two are married to other people or if she was raped or any other circumstantial conditions around the conception of said child. The child is present and therefore as legitimate as anyone else. You are not a lesser person for your parents' issues, nor are you greater for their attending a ritual that may or may not last until dawn. The fact is that people are all legitimate beings.

End of Sermon.

Muslims, so disrespectful.
flame me I don't care, we all know I'm telling the truth and that I'm going to be flamed then have my post removed.3...2...1.....

Hi, I don't really see that as a sermon, but ok.. an "llegitimate" child is an important issue in many cultures, and in this case, we're talking about Near Eastern,Judaic, Middle Eastern Semitic cultures, and for them 1900 years ago, it was important relevant and not something easily dismissed or overlooked;

My question is if someone is aware of anything written in Scripture that alludes to or states that J.C. was born an illegitimate child; (not because he did not have a physical biological father, but because Miriam his mother, perhaps had gotten into trouble of some sort-- The Ayatollah of Iran has made that statement and The Ayatollah is probably considered to be an expert of some sort in Theology, particularly Islamic Theology; So I wonder who can confirm the findings of his statement; I will look into the Talmud to see where the writings are concerning Jesus C. The Ayatollah wouldn't just make that claim without being about to back it up Theologically..

This makes no sense so a high rank religious official makes derogatory comments on another divine entity that is part of the same Enlilite religious connection just from a different name???? How is he @ high rank religious official and not teaching peace and self control? Instead this instigation is shared which will place a void Sapiens Sapiens have got to do better this species is too mature to still behave like this

Nice to see world leaders acting like petulant children...

My prophet can kick your saviors butt, etc...


he can say what ever He wants, as a Christian I don't need to attack every slight against my religion, I think gods big enough to handle himself with out demanding a jihad on every insult by his followers.

The first reference to a "bastard" in the Bible is in relation to the offspring of the fallen angels mating with human women.

Jesus did have an earthly father, it was Joseph. His real biological father was God himself. So, that base is covered. It does not state in Scripture that an illegitimate child can not enter into Heaven.

Jesus has the blood of a former prostitute and an adulterous father in his geneology. It is an example of God's grace and mercy, which is something that is sorely lacking in that other "faith."

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

Actually I don't think he is trying to be derogatory, but he is trying to state That the Jewish Faith claims that Jesus Christ was born a bastard: (WHAT HE SAYS IS TOTALLY TRUE: because in the Jewish Faith, reference is made frequently in their book the Talmud, that Jesus Christ, was born Jesus Ben Panthera.. son of not Joseph, but of Julius Panthera; And that's in the Talmud so the Ayatollah makes a very good point because that is indeed what Jews profess to believe But in the Bible? I don't understand Ayatollah Khorsani when he says that the Bible likewise makes the same statement..

reply to post by tony9802


Thanks tony9802 but I feel it was a religious ignorant remark especially if he wont point out where he read it to enlighten many.

Originally posted by hardamber
The first reference to a "bastard" in the Bible is in relation to the offspring of the fallen angels mating with human women.

Jesus did have an earthly father, it was Joseph. His real biological father was God himself. So, that base is covered. It does not state in Scripture that an illegitimate child can not enter into Heaven.

Jesus has the blood of a former prostitute and an adulterous father in his geneology. It is an example of God's grace and mercy, which is something that is sorely lacking in that other "faith."

Ok, so the AYATOLLAH is making this up? I believe there must be some type of framework of knowledge about this within which Muslim Theology operates and that then allows the Ayatollah to make this type of statement without a problem-- That's what I want to find out; Also, There is in the Talmud the discussions about Jesus Ben Panthera and the old rabbi's made many many statements about the illegitimate birth of J.C. They called him Jesus Ben Panthera..

reply to post by tony9802


I'm sure Jesus would never condemn a child because the child has no father.

Leave it up to religious fundamentalists to show their evil while trying to, pretentiously, appear as reasonable - logical and intellectual.

reply to post by tony9802


Let us have a definition of "bastard" as it is stated in parsi hebrew and arabic.
If they all revert to mean "a child born outside of marriage", then what the ayatollah said is true.
Joseph and Mary were not married were they, just "betrothed to be married"?
If Jesus is indeed the son of god, then he is not the son of Joseph, even if Joseph and Mary were married at the time of his birth, he could be considered a "bastard".
It is a very technical question, take emotion out of it and lets look at the evidence.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by tony9802

 

Thanks tony9802 but I feel it was a religious ignorant remark especially if he wont point out where he read it to enlighten many.

The Ayatollah is probably following the writings in The Talmud written between 150-450ad and in those writings many many rabbis make this very same claim; To us, yes he sounds like an unlearned(?) theologian, but in his world, in his academic institutions, in his rigorous religious training, this is indeed what he, The Ayatollah has learned..and in his eyes (their eyes) it is Theological Truth;


This is the definition of AYATOLLAH in wikipedia..en.wikipedia.org...
Ayatollah (UK /aɪəˈtɒlə/ or US /aɪətoʊlə/; Persian: آيت‌الله‎ ayatollah from Arabic: آية الله‎, āyatu allah "Sign of the god") is a high ranking title given to Usuli Twelver Shī‘ah clerics. Those who carry the title are experts in Islamic studies such as jurisprudence, ethics, and philosophy and usually teach in Islamic seminaries.[citation needed] The next lower clerical rank is Hojatoleslam wal-muslemin.

“The ignorant Christians burn the Quran and don’t understand that the result will be that Jesus becomes an illegitimate child.”

That was funny.
Jesus life was long over and the New Testament was complete when the Quran was written; they didn't contribute with anything to the compilation of the Bible or to the Jesus story. They twisted their own version of an existent gospel, probably to get more credibility for their new prophet. And now they pretend to be somehow contributed to the "legitimacy" of Jesus.
I wouldn't waste my time following statements like these.

Originally posted by WhiteHat

“The ignorant Christians burn the Quran and don’t understand that the result will be that Jesus becomes an illegitimate child.”

That was funny.
Jesus life was long over and the New Testament was complete when the Quran was written; they didn't contribute with anything to the compilation of the Bible or to the Jesus story. They twisted their own version of an existent gospel, probably to get more credibility for their new prophet. And now they pretend to be somehow contributed to the "legitimacy" of Jesus.
I wouldn't waste my time following statements like these.

Is it further proof that all religions are there to keep the populace downtrodden and obedient to the elites?

reply to post by tony9802


I understand and have no disrespect for he, I guess I just wish since he holds such a high rank iI feel he should be more species aware and compassionate for others who wish to find the lord as does he and who will hear his words. Yes some ill minds have disrespected Islam in recent with fail art and video but still he should know returning responses w/o compassion and respect for the subject of religious ignorance will only cause more negative relations/activities. In respect to him being a high rank trained why then does he not recognize the connection Abraham has made for Judaism Christianity as well as his religion Islam in order of creation to make the bond is what keeps me wondering but i hear what your saying OP.

Originally posted by WhiteHat

“The ignorant Christians burn the Quran and don’t understand that the result will be that Jesus becomes an illegitimate child.”

That was funny.
Jesus life was long over and the New Testament was complete when the Quran was written; they didn't contribute with anything to the compilation of the Bible or to the Jesus story. They twisted their own version of an existent gospel, probably to get more credibility for their new prophet. And now they pretend to be somehow contributed to the "legitimacy" of Jesus.
I wouldn't waste my time following statements like these.

He did not say that Jesus burnt the Q'uran, he says Christians do.
And Jesus was not a christian, he was a jewish rabbi with some radical ideas. These ideas later formed the basis of the (non-jewish) christian religion.

reply to post by Sailor Sam


Oh no! I will need alot more time to look up the word in a few languages.. I did quickly search it out and it can mean "polluted", a child of incest according to the word "mamzer" in Hebrew which is actually quite interesting.. and Strong's Definition: a bastard, child of incest NASB Translation illegitimate birth (1), mongrel race (1), one of illegitimate birth (1). So.. kind of like you said.. born out of wedlock, and adulterated.

Originally posted by Sailor Sam
reply to post by tony9802

 

Let us have a definition of "bastard" as it is stated in parsi hebrew and arabic.
If they all revert to mean "a child born outside of marriage", then what the ayatollah said is true.
Joseph and Mary were not married were they, just "betrothed to be married"?
If Jesus is indeed the son of god, then he is not the son of Joseph, even if Joseph and Mary were married at the time of his birth, he could be considered a "bastard".
It is a very technical question, take emotion out of it and lets look at the evidence.

edit on 25-9-2012 by Sailor Sam because: (no reason given)

Oh no! I will need alot more time to look up the word in a few languages.. I did quickly search it out and it can mean "polluted", a child of incest according to the word "mamzer" in Hebrew which is actually quite interesting.. and Strong's Definition: a bastard, child of incest NASB Translation illegitimate birth (1), mongrel race (1), one of illegitimate birth (1). So.. kind of like you said.. born out of wedlock, and adulterated.

This is all trickled from the momhaamad the bastard referance from innosence of muslim movie

p.s. no spell check