Grand Ayatollah: Jesus An illegitimate Child.. (In The Bible?)

reply to post by Unity_99


I stopped watching the first video at 2:35, where it mentions Alberto Rivera. He is a verified con artist. He was never a priest/Jesuit/whatever. If that's where some of this information is coming from- then it is suspect. Yes, there are similarities between Islam and Christianity. No, Islam was not a creation of the RCC. Muhammad did have contact with Christians- and it would not surprise me if his biggest influence was a Christian that believed heresies.

reply to post by LeSigh


The guy died. After quite a few attempts. But the whole video shows the passages borrowed and evidence in history of the deals which happen to support his disclosure.

Along with the coins.

What is silly to me in the video which has good information in it, is the constant talking about leaving the Catholic faith and joining the real Christian faith. None of them are the real faith. And yet all the congregations consist of good people, I was raised Catholic and they're more generous, more humble, than the salvation army, and believe very strongly in Good Works as James spoke of and Christ demonstrated.

That video is not being shown to harm catholics, or differentiate in religions, because they're all run by Corrupt Elitist's.

Also, the religions in the land previous to the Christian, such as Janus, that I just found out about, and various groups that they term pagan. I would never disrespect good people's faith in anything Benevolent, for the common folk throughout history had faith in something kind and good, that would grant help, for their sick and dying.

But, those who organize these institutions are not good people.

And the Catholic/Muslim conspiracy is well organized and when I first heard of this, it was from a poster with mystery school knowledge who was really upset at the distortion in Islam, for the real people behind the names, such as the one changed to mohammud was Saint Peter, and he didn't have a child bride, but that was a tale taken from, Saint Catherine:

islamfactor.org...

And it seems like its all made up.

At the time of the crusades however, it wasn't actually Islam, many of them were alternative christians as implied by the coins found.

We're here, violated as a species, by this evil corruption, with wars and abuses against humanity, women and children, and its all a giant joke on us.

This guy should learn to read or something.


Jesus was accused of being a bastard. This was certainly a responce to the story about Him being born from a virgin. This is an accusation made to His face in His time. This accusation was recorded by one of His followers as part of a basket of accusations made about Him in attempts to discredit Him. He was accused of a number of things and of being several things.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Unity_99

 

They even rewrote the story of the Woman at the Well to refer to Mohammed, and ascribe the words of John the Baptist about the one who was coming that he was unfit to undo his sandal strap, to Jesus in reference to Mohammed, and, according to one their perverted writings called the Gospel of Barbabas, Judas, not Jesus, went to the cross instead because they say he looked just like Jesus, and there are words in the Quran saying that Jesus was NOT crucified. It's all just one holy or unholy mess, probably launched against the Arab's by the church as the first global psy-op, which has now clearly gotten way out of hand and has over the centuries. The Quran even makes more mention of Jesus' mother Mary than the Bible does, figure that one. All because of Ismael the black sheep of the family, and Judas, that's what it comes down to imho.

Right, it's actually all very confusing when you begin to do research into the Quran and try to figure out what is and is not accurate truth about things or persons(ie. Judas/Jesus,); I always have trouble mustering up sufficient nerve to read the "Q" at length. I can start but then I sort of have to stop.. and then I can't really bring myself to continue; What I would really like to know is what the Islamic Studies Seminaries are like out there in the M.East They MUST have reputable materials or archives of literature upon which to base their truths and Quranic arguments.. What IS Islamic Theology??-- They have professionals, professors and academics even some that teach in the U.S. so I would have a hard time believing that they wouldn't have sound mindful clerics who really knew their material and were able to well argue it; They are after all sitting in the middle of this entire biblical oasis; They have access to Aramaic and Hebrew with the snap of a thumb -click- N. Iraq, or Turkey, all of it- Why wouldn't they be able to produce cogent Islamic Theology or is it that we in the West know absolutely nothing about their learning institutions-- I'm going to have to do more research on this.. In the meantime, they live within and on the very territory and land of Scripture.. It's all there at their fingertips.. Sometimes I wonder if they know something more than we could ever know about "Biblical, lands.. Don't know, the 5 prayers a day sung out loud daily from 5 am in the morning to evening.. It is actually really pretty-- I wish their space could be respected a little more,

Jesus is our savior, I hear his literal voice call to me. He has authority over our destinations. It would be better to convert Islam/muslims to Christ the Lord rather than see them perish because they could not enter the Kingdom. Christians, lets find a way to show our brothers and sisters that Christ is truly the Son of God, even before he came to earth. Or maybe this will be enough evidence.

kid comes back after seeing angels and Jesus

little girl has vision of christ returning in the clouds

boy receives message from christ/God and prays in tongues

Jesus appeared to muslims and they convert

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Originally posted by Logarock
This guy should learn to read or something.


Jesus was accused of being a bastard. This was certainly a responce to the story about Him being born from a virgin. This is an accusation made to His face in His time. This accusation was recorded by one of His followers as part of a basket of accusations made about Him in attempts to discredit Him. He was accused of a number of things and of being several things.

Perfect, then indeed, Jesus during his time, in the environment where he lived and travelled, was intially accused of being a bastard, and that can probably be pointed out in the Talmud and in Scripture.. This all means that Ayatollah Khorasani was right to have made those comments because indeed Judeans/Jews/Talmudists/ and others considered him someone of unworthy character-- So by stating that it is the Quran that Lifts the "Blasphemy" of disbelief and that he WAS born of the V. Birth, and that The Quran is responsible for this "Lifting," or "Cleansing" of sorts, then He the Ayatollah is correct-- We should Honor the Quran for making Sacred that which had been Blasphemed by those who disbelieved His Holy Birth-- Making more sense now...

This is an article from www.wnd.com and I thought it was very interesting; (The moderators may move this wherever they feel is most appropriate..) I will quote Ayatollah Khorsani because he states something that I am interested in discussing, so here is the quote: “Hey, clueless pope who has chosen silence (on the Muhammad video), answer this: If there was no Quran, then as the Bible and the Torah have it, Jesus the son of Miriam is a bastard and a bastard will be forbidden from the heavens of God, and so the high place of Jesus is due to the existence of the Prophet Muhammad as the last prophet by God,” Khorasani said.

Here is the news article link to read in it's entirety: www.wnd.com...

What I want to know for those of you who might be able to answer the question, where is it written in the Bible that Jesus Christ was born a bastard? I know that there are writings in the Talmud, but I haven't seen this one in the Bible; Thanks,

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
They're like oh YA, well YOUR guy was an illegitimate child, so there!

Why doesn't it bother us though, or most of us (can't speak for the fundy literalists)?

I'll take Jesus myself, and that he most certainly was a illegitimate child only shows the greater degree of his heroism in terms of his overcoming all things.

Now that sounds very good my friend......but the truth is He was called a bastard simply because the alternative was just down right to big of a strech for them to believe. Even though one of the prophets of old stated clearly that He would be born of a virgin. Now they knew this old prophecy.....which made it all the worse for Jesus when he came along.

Jesus was claiming to be the fullfillment of this prophecy which was just more than they could stand.

Jesus was also challenged about the place of His birth or His hometown of which old prophecy was clear. The provong of this fact was obsured also by events. Its very clear that His foes went over His story to the detail, in depth as they were forced to do seeing the powerfull works He did and the esteam He was held in. To His works they finally escribed them to the power of evil. His claimes of virgin birth to his mother being a whore.

OMG- I tried, I really did. I attempted to watch the video two more times. I didn't get much further. It presented Rivera's comic book life (that's like outright admitting it to be fiction). The man was caught in his con artistry. He was a fraud. Then I had to stop when it talked about the RCC being the Ancient Babylonian religion and putting down the early church fathers. It's too much. That comes straight from Jack Chick, who got it straight from Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons. www.amazon.com...

Hislop's worked was later COMPLETELY discredited, by a man named Ralph Woodrow. Woodrow was ALL about Hislop's work. He wrote his own book called Babylon Mystery Religion that supported Hislop's view. Then, he decided to go on a hunt for Hislop's sources. What he discovered caused him to pull his own book from publication and write a new one, The Babylon Connection, which shows how Hislop fabricated sources, had factual errors, and is just generally inaccurate. www.ralphwoodrow.org...

Any truth in the video is obscured by all the suspect/fraudulent information.

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by Logarock
This guy should learn to read or something.


Jesus was accused of being a bastard. This was certainly a responce to the story about Him being born from a virgin. This is an accusation made to His face in His time. This accusation was recorded by one of His followers as part of a basket of accusations made about Him in attempts to discredit Him. He was accused of a number of things and of being several things.

Perfect, then indeed, Jesus during his time, in the environment where he lived and travelled, was intially accused of being a bastard, and that can probably be pointed out in the Talmud and in Scripture.. This all means that Ayatollah Khorasani was right to have made those comments because indeed Judeans/Jews/Talmudists/ and others considered him someone of unworthy character-- So by stating that it is the Quran that Lifts the "Blasphemy" of disbelief and that he WAS born of the V. Birth, and that The Quran is responsible for this "Lifting," or "Cleansing" of sorts, then He the Ayatollah is correct-- We should Honor the Quran for making Sacred that which had been Blasphemed by those who disbelieved His Holy Birth-- Making more sense now...

Nice, nice....very funny. Problem is they dont embrace as it should be embraced. If they did they would see their 'prophet" as a pretender and give full glory to where it is due and understand that "salvation come by the Jews".

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
They're like oh YA, well YOUR guy was an illegitimate child, so there!

Why doesn't it bother us though, or most of us (can't speak for the fundy literalists)?

I'll take Jesus myself, and that he most certainly was a illegitimate child only shows the greater degree of his heroism in terms of his overcoming all things.

Now that sounds very good my friend......but the truth is He was called a bastard simply because the alternative was just down right to big of a strech for them to believe. Even though one of the prophets of old stated clearly that He would be born of a virgin. Now they knew this old prophecy.....which made it all the worse for Jesus when he came along.

Jesus was claiming to be the fullfillment of this prophecy which was just more than they could stand.

Jesus was also challenged about the place of His birth or His hometown of which old prophecy was clear. The provong of this fact was obsured also by events. Its very clear that His foes went over His story to the detail, in depth as they were forced to do seeing the powerfull works He did and the esteam He was held in. To His works they finally escribed them to the power of evil. His claimes of virgin birth to his mother being a whore.

I guess then, that is where we get the whole issue of JESUS BEN PANTHERA, from The Talmud.. since no one believed either previous prophecy (Daniel?) about him, or his present unadulterated V-Birth Grace.. very well then.. you guys should look at the Jesus Ben Panthera theme from The Talmud.. They will simply never believe..
But Islamic followers do..

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
Muslims, so disrespectful.
flame me I don't care, we all know I'm telling the truth and that I'm going to be flamed then have my post removed.3...2...1.....

Because grouping all Muslims into the same category isn't disrespectful right?

You're not telling the truth, you're spreading ignorance.

reply to post by Logarock


WHY DOES SALVATION HAVE TO ARRIVE BY WAY OF JEWS? That would be impossible-- you should read the Talmud and see what the Jews follow.. it's not tasty buddy..

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by Logarock
This guy should learn to read or something.


Jesus was accused of being a bastard. This was certainly a responce to the story about Him being born from a virgin. This is an accusation made to His face in His time. This accusation was recorded by one of His followers as part of a basket of accusations made about Him in attempts to discredit Him. He was accused of a number of things and of being several things.

Perfect, then indeed, Jesus during his time, in the environment where he lived and travelled, was intially accused of being a bastard, and that can probably be pointed out in the Talmud and in Scripture.. This all means that Ayatollah Khorasani was right to have made those comments because indeed Judeans/Jews/Talmudists/ and others considered him someone of unworthy character-- So by stating that it is the Quran that Lifts the "Blasphemy" of disbelief and that he WAS born of the V. Birth, and that The Quran is responsible for this "Lifting," or "Cleansing" of sorts, then He the Ayatollah is correct-- We should Honor the Quran for making Sacred that which had been Blasphemed by those who disbelieved His Holy Birth-- Making more sense now...

Nice, nice....very funny. Problem is they dont embrace as it should be embraced. If they did they would see their 'prophet" as a pretender and give full glory to where it is due and understand that "salvation come by the Jews".

I have another little comment I wanted to make about what you state here: Technically, the notion that Jesus Christ is Lord seems a little bit erroneous to me; this notion combined with the idea of The Holy Trinity are constructs of the Roman CC-- these principles are not found in Scripture.. Christ is merely son of God not God himself. So technically when in Islam they argue that The creation of the Trinity and secondly, the notion of attributing Godship to Jesus Christ the Prophet that these two are man made constructs then they are technically correct aren't they? I mean, the RCC created these notions during centuries of theological philosophizing.. at least that's what I see-- I'm not playing devil's advocate in any way, but Islam seems to have points about a couple of things, even though I personally do not accept it as my faith;

reply to post by LeSigh


Gee, I always thought Babylon was the United States and that It's evil empire was going to be one day smothered by a bunch of people wearing Red(?) The uniforms..

They might be dark-blue, better to go back to sleep and dream about it again,

www.doaks.org...



One of the cross's from the 7th century!

Originally posted by yuppa
I have a question.....WHY DO YOU REFRENCE THE TALMUD AND NOT THE TORAH?
THE TORAH IS WHAT NORMAL JEWS GO BY NOT THE TALMUD

The Talmud is basically Junk because in the Torah it states the Talmud is not to be followed if i remember correctly.

edit on 25-9-2012 by yuppa because: for BIG clarity.

I don't know if that is true.. I always thought at least this is my understanding, that most members of the Jewish community reference both; KaraiteJews or Orthodox Jews are the ones who still follow The Laws of Moses.. all the other groups do not,

There are many groups though.. there are the reformist and a whole bunch of factions where the Jewish community members are concerned. If they follow the original laws of Moses then they're good-- but many don't.

reply to post by tony9802


Its in John 8.....8:41. they accuse Him of being a half bread jew. That His father was a Samaritan.....

Now there is a large and important context to these things in this area of scripture and yet these accusations can be drawn out on thier face for the sake of this thread.


Jesus goes right out after this fight in John 8 and heals a blind man.....a man born blind from birth......which is another fullfillment of prophesy, about the messiah. He did this on purpose to bring out what was wrong with these guys. Its hard to explane here, but believe it or not the story of this blind man is directly related to the mans parentage and a stament Jesus was trying to make about His own.