Non-Americans please step in...state your opinions

Believe it or not-- I saw a bumber sticker in the middle of nowhere (Nova Scotia) that said "Bush is Sauron. Save the shire!"

Most Canadians that I talk to (the ones that care at all, anyway) are freaked out at the Bush admins zealotry, arrogance, religious hypocracy and disregard of the Geneva Convention.

Plus, how long will it take for the implications of the Patriot Act to transcend borders and government attitudes?

Economics and Sanctions are one the reasons the Islamic brand cannon fodder hate westerners so much.

If you mean we have to help them economically to improve thier lot, yes I agree with you.

But if the price of getting out from under AQ terrorism is getting out totally (ie aid and humanitarian groups too) then how can we do that?

In the meantime we have to deal with keeping 9/11 attacks at bay or dealing with the aftermaths.

I don't take well to being a sitting target.

I don't like Bush and i can see how the americans could like him either, they are mniring in poverty, and he's launched war without end, and also, he 's a liar, and he's not a christain. I hate his guts, if things were possible, maybe he should be gotten rid of him and his whole cabinet

Originally posted by craigandrew
Economics and Sanctions are one the reasons the Islamic brand cannon fodder hate westerners so much.

Send them bussiness. Less poverty, less people to join up and bomb places. If you're comfortable, you have a job, a family and a home, you protect it by NOT running off and blowing yourself up. I doubt the boss would take that as an excuse if you had a nine to five job...

If you mean we have to help them economically to improve thier lot, yes I agree with you.

But if the price of getting out from under AQ terrorism is getting out totally (ie aid and humanitarian groups too) then how can we do that?

In the meantime we have to deal with keeping 9/11 attacks at bay or dealing with the aftermaths.

I don't take well to being a sitting target.

Neither do I. SO, send them teachers. Educate the masses. If they cna think for themselves, it's another step towards crushing terrorism.

I thought that was the whole ideal intention of pouring reconstruction into Iraq?

Given theres a predominant greed motive behind it (nice fat juicy contracts anyone) but list for me the worlds most powerful corporate entities that would do it for free whilst risking the ongoing destruction of thier investment, and the murder of thier workforce.

Do you think Governments like the US can foot the bill with taxpayer dollars and free volunteers alone? Theyare already having problems attracting teachers and doctors because of the current climate, despite massive pay offers.

Look how much people are bitching about taxes going on the war. You think they are going to accept bearing the full costs of reconstruction?

Unless you havent noticed groups like AQ, Saddamists and Mahdists have been doing thier damndest to destroy what infrastructure and services there still are, and to drive off the contractors trying to replace it. They are cutting off that godawful oil supply we love to hate that will also just happen to fund the common Iraqis future, regardless of who is selling it to whom.

Even the volunteer NGOs, Humanitarian groups, and sympathetic journalists have found themselves literally put on the chopping block by these bastards.

Some have left out of fear even with the US Coalition Security Forces there.

How many do you think will stay if they pull out?

Catch 22.
The war continues with the US there. So do the construction efforts.
Withdraw and reconstruction ceases. All foreigners withdraw (except the die hards scratching at the edges).
The insurgents overwhelm whatever ricketty form of government is left behind and set up thier own twisted little version of the ideal Islamic state (or go the way of Somalia in 1990-93).
And they make sure life stays pretty much as it. Bombed out and hopeless to promote hatred of the west and ensure a nice steady supply of martyrs to the cause.

Does anyone see what I'm getting at?

[edit on 16-10-2004 by craigandrew]

I do, craig. See, it helps the economy of a country to not be occupied by an army, or bombed to crap. You send in the economic factors INSTEAD of the army. Imagine this: Instead of having bombed the country, you send in your doctors, your bussinessmen and your teachers. You enrich the nation, no one's going to object. You educate the people, no one's going to object. The people...well, you have to trust them for the revolution part.

DE

Originally posted by crusader
I don't like Bush and i can see how the americans could like him either, they are mniring in poverty, and he's launched war without end, and also, he 's a liar, and he's not a christain. I hate his guts, if things were possible, maybe he should be gotten rid of him and his whole cabinet

They are what in poverty what are you talking about? I hope you dont think most Americans live in poverty.

I dont want to know where you get your information from.

1.-HE stole de 2000 election, and was appointed elected by lawyers.
2.-He has Indebted the US for at least 9 years.
3.-He has no respect for international law
4.-He is a puppet for big companies and has made a lot of tricky deals in his administration, like Halliburton Enron, etc etc.
5.-He whas singlehandedly deleted most of the enviromental laws and appointed previous lobyist from corporation sto run the "new" laws.
6.-He is a previous (and maybe still) a susbtance abuser and I have worked with them for years and believe me they get all kinds of ticks, manerisms, and weird talking habits, not to mention they loose the train of thought quite easily.... do you see a patern here.
7.- he was a weird habit of winking...creepy.
8.-He never listens, I have seen Im interviewed many times and when he is attacked he never lets th eother finish, he inturrups with "allow me", Let me finish" "in case you havent noticed" ... etc etc.
9.-He makes jokes with no punch line...so in a way they are no jokes and from someone who has th ered botton scared the C*** outa me.
10.- He passes out when drunk and he blames that he choked on pretzels !
11.- He disregarded the International protests against the war (20 million) and the UN and also invadedd for the WMD and attacked with WMD.
12.- He made the biggest blunder in US history, to waste away the union made posibl eby the horrendous attacks of 9/11 and then waste away th einternational simpathy for the US.
13.-The patriot act (Nuf..said)
14.- The Carlyle Group......I guess I dont need to explain Do I?
15.- He has divided the US more than any other president in my memory and it makes the world a much more dangerous place.

also his father puked in Japan prime minister back in 1991, well that was funny...
dont you laugh when he says "nuculear"

I thnik Kerry is no saviour but at least can buy the US a fresh face in to wich make mends with the international community.....

DE

I agree with you. In hindsight I have come to realise after Gulf War 1 we might have been better (I choke on this because I think hes a swine) dealing with Saddam and sending in all that economic and humanitarian aid you mentioned.

But fast foward today 2004

The paradox.

We should still do the same... hell we are trying if only for image and profits sake.
There are Coalition Troops there
The security situation which should have been planned for wasnt and now it sucks
Without Coalition Forces, the Iraqi Government, whether it remains puppet or free elected (and I guess most people who post here would beleive pigs fly first) is so ricketty the armed factions (bar Saddams) would kick the # out of it if it wasnt about an extreme right of Saladin version of Islam.
Without Coalition Forces, the Corporations and the aid agencies alike would run like hell.
And a Madhist, AQ or Islamic extremist government would want Iraq to remain exactly as they found it. Devestated, the perfect foundation for thier cause and beleifs. THey dont want your economic or social aid,like teachers and doctors, unless its to teach the way they think. Just think of it. Fighting a terrorist war abroad, the US and Europe not putting up with the attacks, but afraid to be INVADERS again, bombing the occassional crap out of everything, and Bin Ladens second cousin telling the next generation this is what we fight for.(Based on BS or not).

Occuppying Forces ARE NOT good for a country's economy and well being. No economy and no hope are worse. Look at Afghanistan after the Soviet pull out. Bombed out and fought over by factions for a decade because no one gave enough of a stuff to help in any way once the Soviets left.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by craigandrew]

I'm from the UK (americas best friend apparently) and i for one am disgusted that the american people voted that maldroit moron into government, He has lost america more friends and created more enemies than any other president in my lifetime. Everyone who looks at america now sees its through the lens of bush presidency and the "war on terror"
And lets not even talk about his cronyism, and death to the environment policies, GET HIM OUT, and PUT KERRY IN!!

At least he would be a new snakeoil salesman.

Originally posted by astroblade
then you simply aren't meeting those that do like bush. i like bush, and it just so happens that several, maybe most, of my friends also like bush. i wish i could tell you why you're not meeting bush supporters, but i can't. but in the spirit of this websites montra, don't let that make you think everyone here in america dislikes bush.

You're an American? Then you should learn to read topics. I guess I should've asked people to state their residence. I have a feeling there are a few Americans chiming in here. NOt only do they support Bush, but they're too dumb to follow directions, apparently.
Anyway, it's becoming increasingly clear that Bush is not very popular at all, to the outer world. Keep posting....we'll tally this up when we get enough. Anyone who hasn't made it clear where they're from, please do.

My own opinion is that Bush and his regime are very dangerous. Kerry isn't going to be a great president, IMO, but he's not going to attack people for no reason and get America in more trouble. This one time, I'm going to vote for Kerry, only because it's the quickest way to remove Bush. And he needs removing, now! BTW, I live in a supposed swing state, however we haven't voted for a republican since 1972. Gore won more votes from this state. Recent polls show: Kerry 48%, Bush 43%, Nader 2%, Undecided 7%

[edit on 18-10-2004 by Damned]

Another european here and I too do not agree with the way this conservative republican administration is running things.

There are a lot of reasons for that.

They have zero respect for human rights, international organisations, enviroment, minorities, gays, they are greedy, self-loving bunch of corrupted businessmen, religious nutcases and cold war left-overs.

Their ideology should have died in 1989 when berlin wall fell, and in 1991 when they messed up in First Gulf War. Sadly, they were brought back to life in 21st century

Their way of fighting terror consist of installing puppet goverments all over the world, EXACTLY the way Cold War was fought. People don't matter, the fact that those puppet goverments are dictators and opressive regimes doesn't matter, what matters in power, control and MONEY.
It partialy worked during cold war because back then we were fighting goverments, communist goverments. The negative side was that it has CREATED the mess we are dealing with right now. So it is very clear that such method of war does not help in current situation.

War against terror is a war between ideologies, a war which recruits PEOPLE, not goverments, so it is pointless to put a "bush friendly" president in power, when that only fuels hatred amongst people, who are then easily recruited in Al-Qaeda.

Bush has lost the very important momentum in War on Terror, he has lost the world wide coalition, support, he has increased terror attacks by 200%, his administration has managed to create the biggest debt america has ever had, they said "# you" to all enviromental agreements, treaties, they screwed the economy, healt care, education, the whole damn world. They didn't catch Bin Laden, they lied about the reasons for war in Iraq, their inteligence was flawed. They were actually so stupid to announce the war in Iraq two years before they actually did it, which gave enough time to Iran and Israel to plant false intel on situation in Iraq ( I am talking about whatshisname in Iraqi goverment, and that Israeli spy connected to neo-con mastermind Wolfowitz).

To all who brag about how USA will carpet bomb middle east if necessary: that will never happen. Too much money there. They will keep fighting little wars, people will die for the selfish goals of ideologies that should have been burried long time ago, for revenge, for oil, money. They will keep lieing, stealing, destroying civil liberties.

Bush actually thinks God apointed him to power and has instructed him to fight some war against evil. There are pills for that... literaly. There are pills to treat such psychological disorder. He doesn't need a second term, he needs medical treatment.

So yeah, those are about half of the reasons why republican administration sucks. I am too busy now to write down the other half.

G,day. Aussie here. First post too. Nah,i don,t think too much of Bush either.Then i don,t like our P.M. He got in on the strength of keeping interest rates low,then two days after election says, Oh by the way forgot to mention but things aren,t that rosy,might have to put interest rates up.I have two cousins who live in the U.S. Married to U.S. navy fellas.They like the American people.The government is a different matter.I was born & finished school in the U.K. In 1963 my mum & me went shopping one morning. I was !0 yrs old. We came home & they were announcing the death of J.F.K. on the old black & white. I understood enough to know it was significant. I can still see the image of that moment in my head. It was burned in. I don,t know why. The U.S has not had a good leader since then.Maybe Jimmy Carter, maybe. The United States has done a lot of good things for the world. But the quest for oil & revenge for the 911 event which has left many unanswered questions is taking your country & indeed the world into uncharted waters.Iraq has become a no win situation. I still recall the pictures of helicopters falling of ships leaving Vietnam. Carpet bombing didn,t work. It appears to make people angry & more determined. I feel that the financial strain on the U.S. of continuing in a steadily worsening war will cause you grief, but George seems to have his mind made up. So does our P.M. If Russia, Iran & Venezuela start trading in Euros for oil it will be the last straw. You will have to put perforations in the U.S. dollar so you can tear them off the roll easier in the toilet. I like U.S. people as people, but your overseas policy leaves something to be desired. You are selling off your assets the same as we are & watering down your workforce with immigrants the same as we are. I am not a soothsayer, i don,t have any answers. I wish you all the best in your election. Happy voting.

So let's see...correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears the tally is:

24 - Don't like/against Bush policies
1 - Likes Bush because he thinks he'll ruin our ecomomy
1 - Thinks he's just plain funny
2 - Think Bush is fine

It's looking pretty grim for Bush, outside of America, isn't it? To be fair, two of the votes I've included against Bush are questionable, or not clearly defined. Although they appear to be speaking badly of him, they did not actaully state their opinion. Please be more clear in your stance, even if it means just stating that you don't have one.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Damned]

I'm from Canada and I'm rooting for Bush! Although I do seem to be a minority in an overly liberal country (not that theres anything wrong with that). I like him because if he's got something to say he's gonna say it. And if action needs to be taken, its gonna get done. I think some people need to understand things like Iraq and whatevers gonna happen next is gonna hapeen irrespective of whoever sits in the white house. I hear NOTHING about operation Desert Fox happening when Clinton was about to be impeached. Just goes to show it's been on the American To-Do list for awhile. And as for Europe, and almost the rest of the world, it's become almost a part of pop-culture to bash the US President, it happened to Clinton, Bush and if Kerry gets elected it'll happen to him too, you can't change that. When Americans where coming up to Canada to dodge the draft, my dad went down and enlisted with the marines and went to vietnam for 2 full tours. He fought bravely, lost friends, for several years he ran a POW-MIA newsletter for Canada and Winnipeg and refused many purple hearts because he would not take them because he scratched himself, or got a tiny little piece of shrapnel in the eye. These actions make me extremely proud, it wasn't his war or Canadas (or maybe even Americas) and for Kerry to come back and throw his medals away like it means nothing to him, or the many people who did fight and recieved purple hearts for real injuries, offends me greatly.

I just can't beleive that Americans are still so patriotics of their country, proud and all....
They are treated like crap by the governments (whatever demo or repub) is still both crap! Choose between 2 pieces of trash!!!!
Not that it's better in Canada, but at least we KNOW that politics it crap.
Americans get brainwashed by their news, by the messages they get, medias make them beleive they r better than everyone else on earth....
Not their fault...Wake-up americans!!!! HELLO????? You want to be controled, then vote for Bush, you wanna be controled BUT have a "bit" of a change, vote Kerry...but at least, don't WISH or HOPE for anything better, your government is completely corrupted!!! It's not their fault, they were taught to be patriotic and love the white house at young age
Amelia
I have nothing against you guys....I love you xxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Amelia
I just can't beleive that Americans are still so patriotics of their country, proud and all....
They are treated like crap by the governments (whatever demo or repub) is still both crap! Choose between 2 pieces of trash!!!!
Not that it's better in Canada, but at least we KNOW that politics it crap.
Americans get brainwashed by their news, by the messages they get, medias make them beleive they r better than everyone else on earth....
Not their fault...Wake-up americans!!!! HELLO????? You want to be controled, then vote for Bush, you wanna be controled BUT have a "bit" of a change, vote Kerry...but at least, don't WISH or HOPE for anything better, your government is completely corrupted!!! It's not their fault, they were taught to be patriotic and love the white house at young age
Amelia
I have nothing against you guys....I love you xxxxxxxxxxxx

I think I love this girl. We see things the same. My eyes are wide open. Americans have been programmed to be easily duped, and it sure works well, doesn't it? Take away, gradually, and no one seems to notice. Why was I born like this? Why can't I be one of the stupid people? Damnit! Life would be so much easier if I was born just another blind sheep.

25 - Don't like/against Bush policies
1 - Likes Bush because he thinks he'll ruin our ecomomy
1 - Thinks he's just plain funny
4 - Think Bush is fine

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Damned]

As many who have read my posts know, I did not vote for Bush in 2000 and will not vote for him in 2004.

Hi versi, (to quote Caesar) non curamus sumus.

At the risk of coming off chauvinistic, the US is the world's sole superpower; we are Rome after the Battle of Zama in 212 AD. Neither Gaul nor Sycthia nor Amorica instructs Senatus Populusque Romanum; look what happened to the Barcas!

We will choose which leader we choose; indeed, given the perception by many Americans that most Europeans are pusillanimous slugs who rely on America as both their saviour and whipping-boy (a perception, by the way, which I do not share), my guess is that the more Europeans there are against him, the better are President Bush's chance of victory next month.