Curiosity Just Went Through Mud?

reply to post by dcmb1409

Adsorbed water has been mentioned earlier in this thread. With a thickness of about 1 molecule, it can't really be considered moisture, much less mud.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky

It is merely a gut feeling, a feeling that I have come to trust, within myself that just does not want to accept it as true. If it works for you that they have a little cabby on Mars roving around the dirt that looks like, well, many places I have seen here on earth, then that is great! Each to his own. I am not trying to convince anyone, I simply asked for proof beyond any doubt. Ok, so you guys are glued to NASA, I choose not to be.

I share the same gut feeling. Not sure why we can question all other forms of mainstream media but not mainstream science.

If your convictions are so strong, why does it anger you that someone has a different take on it?

Check out the defensive stance from posters when I started questioning if mars should look like earth.
Mars or Mojave, Curious Photos

Originally posted by Larry L


mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

WOW !!! What will it be this time ? Swamp gas of signaling flares ?

reply to post by knowneedtoknow

Thanks for that reply and explanation. More than what the temp. is or what the early morning frost consists of is the atmospheric pressure which (correct me if I am wrong) is so low that any water on the surface in liquid form quickly boils away into the atmosphere. It cannot remain pooled or in rivers or lakes for long. Any water that does exist is in small amounts mixed with other gasses?

The other question I have about this is whether or not this "liquid" or slushy ice or whatever could be other frozen gasses like ammonia, methane, etc? Would they not flow on the surface in rivulets if in "liquid" form? Then stick to the wheel and re-freeze into icy looking "wet" spots on the tires?

Just observing...

It looks like its damp to me, the lighter bits are dry and the darker bits seem to be damp, I'm not going to say mud or moist because it turns into a pedant war.

What actually makes me laugh is that we have been told that there evidence of water possibly still being on the planet and yet the second someone sees something that resembles damp soil then all the experts (or not so expert) come out and say its not.

Its not like the guy is saying its a hoax landing or anything, he's just saying it LOOKS like mud and in that respect HE'S PERFECTLY RIGHT, it does look like damp soil.

People claiming the thread is dishonest are just looking for a fight...

If I showed you the same thing on a tyre on earth I bet a very high percentage would say its dried mud, but of course on ATS we have the pedantic experts who decide from an armchair and a photo what it is and isn't.

As said, it looks like mud if you will...

Valid thread starter 1 - Pedantic Experts (lol) 0

In this picture Phage posted earlier, to show the tires collecting the dirt(makes sense), I noticed something in the sky.

I know it's off topic, but this, after all, a conspiracy site.

Phages link:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

this:

reply to post by Observationalist


Thanks for bringing your other thread to my attention. Yes, it is curios (pun intended! as per your thread) how extremely similar the mountain ranges look. Everything, down to the stones, look Earthbound to me. But as you say, it is that absolute gut feeling that really just has my loyalty. When you have learnt through experience that you have an extremely strong spot on intuition, then eventually you come to respect it. Sending you a U2U to respond further. Don't want to go off topic.

Originally posted by Observationalist
reply to post by UnlimitedSky

 

It is merely a gut feeling, a feeling that I have come to trust, within myself that just does not want to accept it as true. If it works for you that they have a little cabby on Mars roving around the dirt that looks like, well, many places I have seen here on earth, then that is great! Each to his own. I am not trying to convince anyone, I simply asked for proof beyond any doubt. Ok, so you guys are glued to NASA, I choose not to be.

I share the same gut feeling. Not sure why we can question all other forms of mainstream media but not mainstream science.

If your convictions are so strong, why does it anger you that someone has a different take on it?

Check out the defensive stance from posters when I started questioning if mars should look like earth.
Mars or Mojave, Curious Photos

yes, Observationalist, some very hot potatoes were thrown at you in your thread. Wow!

Surely ATS is a place for adult debate? Why does it have to be personal when someone does not agree? Surely in a world where dogs see only black and white, and parrots see more colour than what you and I can possibly perceive, surely people understand and agree that there are many realities, and that points of view are different.

Wouldn't it be boring if we all jumped up and said:"wow!!! wet sand on Mars!!".

When you are secure and mature enough within yourself, you don't feel angry when people disagree with you. Even about little cars with muddy wheels on Mars!

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
In this picture Phage posted earlier, to show the tires collecting the dirt(makes sense), I noticed something in the sky.

I know it's off topic, but this, after all, a conspiracy site.

Phages link:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

this:

Just for observations sake there is also a smaller dot to the left of the image.

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
In this picture Phage posted earlier, to show the tires collecting the dirt(makes sense), I noticed something in the sky.

I know it's off topic, but this, after all, a conspiracy site.

Phages link:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

this:

This is the OP. To be totally honest, when looking through that days Curiosity images, I noticed that LONG before I noticed the "dampness". Trust me........when I first saw it, my heart skipped a beat. I was like "HOLY SH** !!! That's an eagle on Mars !!!!" Clear as day. IMO anyone saying that doesn't LOOK like an eagle, is just blind, never seen an eagle in the air, or is so afraid that it IS an eagle, they'll just deny it at all cost. Anyone has to admit that LOOKS like an eagle.

But there's a reason I didn't comment on it. And that reason is that it's not an eagle......it's a spek of that "mud" that got kicked up by the wheels and got stuck to the lens and just happens to be in a shape similar to the sillhouet of an eagle in the sky. Because I think first, and I'm not scared by the thought of an eagle on Mars, I didn't just excitedly post it and exclaim "an eagle on Mars !!! OMG!!!". Look at the other images in the series, on the same point of the lens..........you'll notice it's actually in every pic, it's just MUCH easier to see against the solid and light background of the sky. There are a few other big flecks of the dirt on the lens at this point, which I actually think is a little more proof the the rover went through a damp spot, because all the dust flecks on the lens previous were just little, hardly noticable. In this image, they're actually comparatvely big clumps. And I don't think there's that much static build up on an insulator like glass.

So yeah......it's not an eagle.......but it sure as hell does look like one. To the point that my heart literally did skip a few beats.

Does anyone else notice the river in the background ? haha
to the OP, i dont see the mud but i dont look through the curiousity pictures enough to realize the difference.

Maybe not mud...

reply to post by Larry L


You might not be seeing mud...check out link

Originally posted by Larry L

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
In this picture Phage posted earlier, to show the tires collecting the dirt(makes sense), I noticed something in the sky.

I know it's off topic, but this, after all, a conspiracy site.

Phages link:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

this:

This is the OP. To be totally honest, when looking through that days Curiosity images, I noticed that LONG before I noticed the "dampness". Trust me........when I first saw it, my heart skipped a beat. I was like "HOLY SH** !!! That's an eagle on Mars !!!!" Clear as day. IMO anyone saying that doesn't LOOK like an eagle, is just blind, never seen an eagle in the air, or is so afraid that it IS an eagle, they'll just deny it at all cost. Anyone has to admit that LOOKS like an eagle.

But there's a reason I didn't comment on it. And that reason is that it's not an eagle......it's a spek of that "mud" that got kicked up by the wheels and got stuck to the lens and just happens to be in a shape similar to the sillhouet of an eagle in the sky. Because I think first, and I'm not scared by the thought of an eagle on Mars, I didn't just excitedly post it and exclaim "an eagle on Mars !!! OMG!!!". Look at the other images in the series, on the same point of the lens..........you'll notice it's actually in every pic, it's just MUCH easier to see against the solid and light background of the sky. There are a few other big flecks of the dirt on the lens at this point, which I actually think is a little more proof the the rover went through a damp spot, because all the dust flecks on the lens previous were just little, hardly noticable. In this image, they're actually comparatvely big clumps. And I don't think there's that much static build up on an insulator like glass.

So yeah......it's not an eagle.......but it sure as hell does look like one. To the point that my heart literally did skip a few beats.

edit on 12-9-2012 by Larry L because: (no reason given)

Eagle or mud?

Will someone dare to say "none"?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Why make something that is conducive to static when it doesn't have to be?

How do you do that? Triboelectric charging is hard to avoid. Move dissimilar materials across each other and you get static electricity.

Any idea as per the content/composition of the tracks themselves as per how it might react in the martian atmoshphere?

reply to post by Phage


You're really trying to reach here for a debate. It's not water vapor. it's cold on Mars so it's ice vapor"? Talk about splitting hairs. Water vapor is water vapor. And NASA says that's water vapor fog. It doesn't matter if it's cold or not. The only difference between that fog being frozen or not is that it's putting down frost instead of dew. TYake you pick. Either way that condensation is going to stick to stuff. If it's sticking as dew, everything just instantly gets wet. If it's forming as frost, when the sun comes up the frost melts then everything gets wet. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Even IF Mars' atmosphere is as thin as you say, and I don't believe it is based on the clouds and ground level fog, and most of the condensation evaporates before it could turn to liquid.....based on the fact that low level fog forms, SOME of that condensation has to turn or stay liquid on the ground until actual sun heat evaporates it. And ASSuming that's the case, I think there would be more than "a microscopic thin layer of moisture, not enough to creat mud". The condensation that forms in that thick of fog, would add quite a noticable layer of moisture in the mornings until it actually all evaporated.

The numbers you and another guys threw around in this thread about the atmospheric pressure of Mars.......it's sounds like an unrealistically small number based on the amount of couds on Mars. Like not even 1% of the density of Earth's?........i don't think so. That's like NO atmosphere, based on the amount of clouds on earth compared to the amount on Mars, that number just doesn't make sense. We can CLEARLY see Mars' atmosphere. It has a dense enough atmostphere to have noticable blue "air glow".

I think Mar's atmosphere is quite a bit more dense than you're making out. If you're saying 1%, I would be saying more like 15-even20% of Earth's. I just can't picture heavy clouds forming under any circumstances in 1% of Earth's atmosphere.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


How exactly do we get proof positive that there are rovers on Mars? Look......we've put ALOT of stuff on and around Mars. I believe they've got machines there, so I'm taking them at their word on this. I don't trust all the data, and I certainly believe they're hiding stuff. But I do believe they're there, because even the people I believe want to hide stuff from us......well THEY really want to know what's there. They're looking for stuff. I think the images we the people get are genuine, though I highly doubt we're seeing the really interesting stuff.

The ONLY way to prove those rovers are there outside of NASA's word would be for you to build a spaceship to get us there so we can look. I'll even go with you.................well......no I won't........but I'll let someone else go in the spaceship you built. Gladly.

Great find, OP. I noticed the same thing right when the images popped up on the site.

Unfortunately I am intimidated to make a thread about Mars again because people are just ridiculous and rude on this site. It IS a conspiracy site. But it doesn't seem like people treat it like such, anymore.

You have your people like Phage who will debunk everything and he's not even right all of the time - and people won't second guess it. And if he doesn't know the answer to something - he won't respond and if you push him TO respond, he gets angry. I myself won't take him seriously unless I see his credentials.

But I digress - great find, like I said. Water would sublimate on Mars - AT MARS' SEA LEVEL. The rover is 14,000 feet below. There's more pressure. Maybe not THAT much more, but it's borderline significant.

That raises the pressure. Moisture being present in small quantities is not impossible. Jeez.

So people like Phage can do their belittling and condescending all they want. This IS a conspiracy site and asking questions and getting to the bottom of things is the whole point and it's why this site is here. Don't (like myself) be intimidated to post what you feel is right.

I have lost my faith in some of the people of this site, however.

reply to post by impaired


Thanks for the kind words toward me, and I agree that there are alot of people on here that are cendescending and belittleing like you say. And Some are just flat out trolls. But I don't think Phage has been any of these things. At least not in this thread.........though I'm also not bringing up something that's really too hard to believe for someone decently informed. I'm just bringing up what looks to be all together a half a teaspoon of moisture, I'm not talking about artificial structures or robot heads here.

Listen, as much as you NEED people like questioning things so we can expand our knowledge and wisdom, so if we notice something interesting we bring it up like I'm doing here, or even on a bigger scale like Richard Hoagland (my hero) has spent his life trying to do.........you also need other people questioning YOUR thought processes, holding your feet to the fire to see if what you're saying makes any sense. You need other knowledgable people on the subject like Phage tearing apart your theories. If they're solid, they'll hold up. I think my particular theory here has held up.

It's called peer review. It's a flawed process because all people have their own beliefs and agendas....even scientist who would have you believe they don't. But it's the process we use.

You're right.....Phage is always trying to bebunk things. He's not always right, and there are some people that just hold his word as the final word on these subjects. But he is knowledgable on these subjects (as far as I can tell), so he's a good critic. ANd I think in this thread, I debated him, didn't take his word as law, and even showed that his thoughts on the atmosphere of Mars, regardless of where they're from, aren't exactly right, or are at least questionable.

See? Peer review. Flawed, but it works.

Who would have thought that a bit of mud or dust on the rover's wheels would create so much heat on a forum.

Just a thought: the darker dust may simply be dust from darker material. You can see lots of darker rocks lying around the land. Also, some mineral dust may look darker or lighter depending on how it's been compressed, and the angle of light.

If Curiosity was indeed driving through damp terrain, scientists would not be silent.

Originally posted by avatar01
I don't get it. How is this news?

Just take a look at a photo of the planet. See those huge patches of white stuff at the poles? That is called snow.




When snow melts, it turns into water. So somewhere between the white parts and the orange parts, there must be water. It is known.

The snow on Mars is comprised of CO2, which is dry ice. The moisture isn't H2O.